Extreme rarity & grades

[EwanUK]

I'm perhaps a little odd (in good company here then?) in that I'm generally more interested in reading about collecting than in reading the actual comics themselves. What I mean is, I'd rather read the Overstreet guide, CBG, publisher histories, collecting stories etc etc than actually the comics themselves (especially most of the modern output - though I do love many of the "classics" - and of course all things 2000AD). I'm also very interested in extreme grades and rarities. (England is very behind with CGC - but I'll open another thread about that soon).

With that context, I'd like to ask you many knowledgeable Americans a few questions if I may...

 

1. What are the ten rarest comics in existence? (Golden Age on) And how do we know this? (i.e. how does Overstreet classify as "scarce, rare, very rare" etc)

 

2. Of them, what are the highest CGC grades?

 

3. If a comic is unique - i.e. only one copy of it exists - does that make it LESS valuable than a comic with say 5-10 in existence. (My logic being, demand can never be satisfied, so the price is never driven up).

 

4. Statistically, is it likely that there are more pedigree collections yet to be found?

 

5. I understand CGC was quoted as saying for the all-black ASM 36, "they'll never be more than six grade 10.0s". (Obviously, if this is a misquote, apologies). If that's the case, how do they know?

 

6. Being new to these forums, I'm not sure if it's the correct etiquette to ask multiple questions - but hey - got to start somewhere.

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Illiterati-migration]

With that context, I'd like to ask you many knowledgeable Americans a few questions if I may...

 

You certainly may! Stand aside and allow me, gents.

 

1. What are the ten rarest comics in existence?

 

They are the comics of which there are the fewest copies know to still exist.

 

2. Of them, what are the highest CGC grades?

 

Probably somewhere between 5 and 10.

 

3. If a comic is unique - i.e. only one copy of it exists - does that make it LESS valuable than a comic with say 5-10 in existence. (My logic being, demand can never be satisfied, so the price is never driven up).

 

. That's a very good question...................... Anyway! Next!

 

4. Statistically, is it likely that there are more pedigree collections yet to be found?

 

I am both embiggened and saddened to report that the "MajorKhaos Treasure Trove: Not Quite A Warehouse Find But Still His Attic Is Pretty Dark And Empty Not Unlike A Warehouse Collection" is still unrecovered.

 

5. I understand CGC was quoted as saying for the all-black ASM 36, "they'll never be more than six grade 10.0s". (Obviously, if this is a misquote, apologies). If that's the case, how do they know?

 

CGC is Omniscient. They may also be omnipotent, but I'm not sure about that as I wrote to them asking that they prove their omnipotence by turning me into a toad, but that still hasn't happened. (Though some may say otherwise.)

 

6. Being new to these forums, I'm not sure if it's the correct etiquette to ask multiple questions - but hey - got to start somewhere.

 

There's no good way to ask these jerks questions. They're a testy and smelly bunch given to in-fighting and bouts of petulance. Spank as necessary. (Just stay away from Greggy. He's still recovering from that weird rash.)

 

Buuuuut seriously. Those are good questions to which I have no good answers. I'm not Fully-Geeked like some of these guys (*ahem* Lighthouse *koff*). Good luck.

[MonumentalCo]

1. What are the ten rarest comics in existence? (Golden Age on) And how do we know this? (i.e. how does Overstreet classify as "scarce, rare, very rare" etc)

 

Overstreet does note which books are scarce, etc. Just because a book is scarce does not mean that it is worth a lot of money.

 

3. If a comic is unique - i.e. only one copy of it exists - does that make it LESS valuable than a comic with say 5-10 in existence. (My logic being, demand can never be satisfied, so the price is never driven up).

 

Depending on the book, it may not be of any interest to most collectors. There are comics from the 1800's. These books are rare, but there is a limited number of copies currently known. If none of the owners are willing to sell the book it does make the value difficult to judge.

 

4. Statistically, is it likely that there are more pedigree collections yet to be found?

 

Some would argue that finding a new pedigree collection is not possible. I know of a couple collections that have never surfaced and they are from the original families. I don't know if they would be a pedigree, but they might be close.

 

6. Being new to these forums, I'm not sure if it's the correct etiquette to ask multiple questions - but hey - got to start somewhere.

 

Keep asking questions because that is what we all do here. Sharing knowledge is good!

 

 

Tom

[chrisco37]

I'll try to answer your questions (and maybe be back to elaborate):

 

1. Don't know rarest books (Arnold could prob give you that. Lighthouse and Donut know alot about older books as well). OS defines the terms you are looking for in the Price Guide (don't have it w/ me, so I can't give you breakdown). I would guees they base it on the amount of copies that surface either at shows, auctions, etc....

 

2. After someone w/ more knowledge posts them, you can look them up in the CGC census on the website. It'll tell you the grades that every graded copy rec'd. Very nice feature.

 

3. Doubtful. The rarer the better, I would guess.

 

4. Again, very doubtful. Probably would have surfaced by now.

 

5. If they siad this, they were prob basing it on statistical info they have - Amount submitted, percentage of 10's rec'd by other books, etc...

 

6. Multiple questions are fine!

 

Welcome to the forum. Hope that helps!

 

Chris

[Bugaboo-migration]

1. What are the ten rarest comics in existence?

 

They are the comics of which there are the fewest copies know to still exist.

LMFAO..........

[FlyingDonut]

When I get back tonight from my several hours of debauchery this evening (mostly losing money to friends playing Hold 'Em), I'll look into my Gerber. I would imagine the Gerber 10s are still the rarest:

 

G8 = Gerber 8 = Rare = between 11 and 20 in existence

G9 = Gerber 9 = Very Rare = between 6 and 10 in existence.

G10 = Gerber 10 = Unique = less than 5 known copies in existence.

[Darthdiesel]

(mostly losing money to friends playing Hold 'Em)

 

What kind of sick "Deliverance-type" game is that? We are in Northern VA, Donut, not West Virginia!

[FlyingDonut]

I. Introduction

 

In Texas Hold’Em each player can construct his hand from a total of seven cards – two of his own and five common. The common cards are dealt face up in the middle of the table and are shared by all players.

 

The final hand is constructed using any five cards from the player’s own two and the five common cards in the middle of the table.

 

The winner is determined by the highest-ranking hand of five cards.

 

The dealer opens the game and the betting rotates clockwise around the table.

 

II. Entering in the Game

 

Each player who wishes to participate in a new game must place an initial bet called Ante. This can be done by placing a bet in player’s betting area (yellow ellipse), and pressing "Ante" button (simply double-clicking Ante button should work as well). Alternatively, a player can skip the game by pressing the "Sit Out" button. The game begins after all players sitting at the table have either placed their ante bets or have chosen to sit out. Sit out option is chosen for the player automatically if he fails to place his ante bet within 30 seconds from the moment the first ante bet was placed on the table. The ante bet is simply returned to the player in case that player placed his/her ante bet but all other players had decided to sit out.

 

II. The Game

 

In the beginning of the game each player receives two cards face down (so each player can see only his cards) and the first betting round occurs.

 

The Flop : The first three cards dealt to the common area are called "The Flop." All three cards are dealt face up and are available to all players to use in their hands. A card may be used simultaneously by more than one player. At this point the second betting round is conducted.

The Turn : The fourth card dealt to the common area is called "The Turn." At this point the third betting round takes place.

The River : The final card dealt to the common area is called "The River." After all five cards are on the table, the final betting round concludes the game.

The Showdown : Once the fifth betting round is complete, all players who are in the game open their cards. The player with the highest-ranking hand (any five cards out of the seven available) wins the pot. In the case of a tie, the pot is split between the winners.

[chrisco37]

C'mon Darth! You gamble every time you buy a book from Greggy ! You gotta know Texas Hold 'Em. That's what they play at the World Championships of Poker!

 

Chris

[Darthdiesel]

I'm not a betting man! Slots is about as exciting a game that I'll gamble on.

[greggy]

Ok, has the runt been complaining to you about the "production crease". I guess Donut better ask a lot more questions regarding that Batman 238 if he wants it. Yes, it is my lowgrade copy!

[chrisco37]

Slots

 

You sure you spelled that right, Darth?

 

Chris

[Darthdiesel]

Slats?

[lighthouse]

Allow me to interpret Khaos' reply for you here, in case you were a little confused...

 

With that context, I'd like to ask you many knowledgeable Americans a few questions if I may...

 

You certainly may! Stand aside and allow me, gents.

 

Translation: I am not a gent, so please allow this delicate flower to pass...

 

1. What are the ten rarest comics in existence?

 

They are the comics of which there are the fewest copies know to still exist.

 

He actually meant "They are the comics of which there are the fewest copies THAT know to still exist." but forgot the word 'that'. See many comics lack the self-awareness to assure their continued existence. The truly rare ones are those for whom "Cogito Ergo Sum" is a mantra.

 

2. Of them, what are the highest CGC grades?

 

Probably somewhere between 5 and 10.

 

You'll have to forgive Khaos... He thought you were asking for his grades in Chemistry of Gaseous Clouds, and unfortunately he slept through the mid-term and only got credit for writing his name.

 

3. If a comic is unique - i.e. only one copy of it exists - does that make it LESS valuable than a comic with say 5-10 in existence. (My logic being, demand can never be satisfied, so the price is never driven up).

 

. That's a very good question...................... Anyway! Next!

 

Unfortunately, you mention of 'driven up' reminded Khaos that his mother is coming to drive him up to K-Mart to buy his Christmas underwear.

 

4. Statistically, is it likely that there are more pedigree collections yet to be found?

 

I am both embiggened and saddened to report that the "MajorKhaos Treasure Trove: Not Quite A Warehouse Find But Still His Attic Is Pretty Dark And Empty Not Unlike A Warehouse Collection" is still unrecovered.

 

We all look forward to the day when Khaos gets over his irrational fear of the Pink Panther and feels comfortable going up in the attic again.

 

5. I understand CGC was quoted as saying for the all-black ASM 36, "they'll never be more than six grade 10.0s". (Obviously, if this is a misquote, apologies). If that's the case, how do they know?

 

CGC is Omniscient. They may also be omnipotent, but I'm not sure about that as I wrote to them asking that they prove their omnipotence by turning me into a toad, but that still hasn't happened. (Though some may say otherwise.)

 

Unfortunately CGC will never receive this letter, as Khaos wrote it on his pet ferret using grape jelly and then fell asleep looking for a stamp.

 

6. Being new to these forums, I'm not sure if it's the correct etiquette to ask multiple questions - but hey - got to start somewhere.

 

There's no good way to ask these jerks questions. They're a testy and smelly bunch given to in-fighting and bouts of petulance. Spank as necessary. (Just stay away from Greggy. He's still recovering from that weird rash.)

 

Khaos is still mad that we wouldn't let him plant his comics in the flower beds next to the driveway. He seemed thoroughly convinced that the comic fairy would leave a Jolly Rancher on his pillow if he did.

 

*******

 

For a serious reply to your questions...

1) There are over 200 different comics which only have one known copy.

 

2) To my knowledge only a couple have been graded, and the sole purpose to having them graded was to verify their existence.

 

3) Absolutely. UNLESS you are talking about a variant of a comic which has a much larger population. Most unique comics have limited value because there is little peer pressure to force up prices. No one else has a reason to care. But certain variants of other comics DO reach a high value. I have the only known copy of the 35 cent variant of Kid Colt 220. Because LOTS of people have the regular issue, there is interest in the variant. My KC 220 benefits from parallel interest in other comics. A unique copy of an obscure 1880's book doesn't get the same benefit.

 

4) Absolutely. Although it is unlikely that many more Golden Age pedigrees would be found, it is quite likely that pedigree quality collections of later material will still be found. And believe me, if a solid 9.6-9.8 collection of 2,000 books from 1968-1974 were found, it was cause a HUGE stir right now...

 

5) The only way to have a decent shot at a 10.0 ASM 36 is to pull it from an original sealed case with gloves. Every copy that was handled by Diamond then by a retailer then by a customer has picked up enough fingerprints to no longer be a 10.0. Anyone who had a sealed case of this book would be a fool to have not already opened it to try for 10.0 copies.

 

6) Multiple questions are fine... But don't be surprised if you get some smartass answers... Some of the guys here can only keep their 'polite' face on for a few minutes at a time... Long post = Deranged Replies....

 

Like the first half of this one...

 

Welcome to the board!

 

[Illiterati-migration]

6) Multiple questions are fine... But don't be surprised if you get some smartass answers... Some of the guys here can only keep their 'polite' face on for a few minutes at a time... Long post = Deranged Replies....

 

He's right, you know. Some of these guys can be reeeeeeal "characters" -- if you know what I mean. Seriously, for the real info, you should just stick to me and my trusty sidekick Lighthouse. Or for you Germans in the audience: Lighthaus. Spaniards: Lightcasa. Frenchies: Lightmaison. I need to go tend to my kitten. He's a little upset about losing his goodies today.

[lighthouse]

SIDEKICK???

 

SIDEKICK???

 

And after everything I've done for you....

 

*everybody sing now...*

 

Precious and few are the moments we two can shaaaaaaaarrre...

 

 

[aardvark88]

Here's a list of rarest comics compiled by Duncan McAlpine in the British Comic Bk Pr Guide (1998):

1. Amaz. Mystery Funnies (1940) 1 known copy

2. All Star ashcan (1940) 1

3. Blood is the Harvest (1950) 1 b/w, untrimmed

4. Is this Tomorrow? (1957) 1 b/w advance copy

5. Action Comics ashcan (1938) 3

6. Syndicate Comics Features (1937) 3

7. Thrill Comics (1939) Capt Marvel ashcan; 3

8. Feature Bk Popeye (1937) 3; earliest 100 pg comic?

9. Slam Bang comics (1940) 3; b/w ashcan

10. If the Devil would Talk (1958) 4; b/w version.

[murph0]

I wonder how many of these books are that scarce due to the fact that they're all just relative unknown (or unwanted) books. Here's guessing thrilling titles like "Devil May Talk" or "Is This Tomorrow" were major sellers.

 

Brian

[aardvark88]

Both were issued by Cathetical Guild in b/w advance copies. Later reissued in color. Think they would sell gr8 today if they were reprinted. Marvel Max is TAME compared to the themes Cathetical included in their comics: Communism, atomic bomb, racial prejudice, lesbianism, torture, etc.

Covers were extreme like Tales of Terror. Here's Crusaders #3 circa 1974:

[murph0]

I was just saying that the reason they're probably scarce is they were such a bad read that noone bought it, or those that did..tossed them. Just a guess though. I also realize I'm not one to talk, but I can't fathom why someone would pay major $'s for a book like this..that has no other value then a possible "shock value" story.

 

Brian