Crack and Replace books in CGC slabs??

[USArmyParatrooper]

I was reading in the thread about Ebay sellers to avoid that some people crack open CGC slabs and replace the books with lower grade examples.

 

Is this actually possible?? I'm used to coins where it's impossible to remove the coin without completely destroying the slab. Now I'm kind of worried because I already bought a couple of CGC books off Ebay, including a 9.2 Giant Size X-Men 1. Can I validate these as being in their original slab?

[Not*Sure*]

it would be super hard to do that ..really..

 

most people are concerned about people buying a restored slabbed book that was a plod and cracked, resubmitted and the restoration not noticed on the resubmit resulting in a better grade/label..or people cracking pressing/doing minor resto and resubmitting for a higher grade..

 

I have not yet heard of anyone taking one book out of a slab and putting another book into said same slab..

 

of course there are OTHER grading companies..that are known for putting a book into a sealed holder hoping you will never ever crack it open to find out the pages are missing or it has been heavily restod..but these companies are not as reliable as CGC

 

mostly ran out of a dudes basement with the sole intention to part comic fans with their hard earned money and sell them over graded /just plan old POS books..

 

I may be wrong..if anyone here has heard of someone skillfully getting a slab open and being clever enough to put in a different or worse book and not have it be noticed feel free to correct me..but most slabs well they call it cracking for a reason..

 

IMOHO

[Flaming_Telepath]

Is it possible?

 

Yeah, I'm certain it is.

 

Is it likely?

 

I doubt it.

[comicwiz]

The only possible (and known) method was to switch the labels. This could be done if a wedge was used to open the outer case enough to slip the label out. On earlier slabs, the labels aren't sealed very well and can be removed rather easily from the manner they are seated in the inner well, but on the newer slabs they are a little more difficult to remove because of the modifications which were made to the design of the outer holder and the way the label is sonically seated within the inner well.

 

In the case of switching a purple (restored) or green (qualified) label to insert a blue (universal) or red (now obsolete modern label), the concerns are warranted as a purple label book could have its label switched on an earlier slab, but you would need to pay particular attention to the seam of the inner well as there would be an obvious purple or green colour residue from the previous label that would have pealed off and remained on the seam when it was removed. At very close inspection, the residue remaining on the seam from the previous label would be quite pronounced, as the blue label would have a faint purple or green band right next to the fraudulently inserted blue or red label.

 

I cannot see any way that the entire book could be removed from the inner well without evidence of breach. If you have any concerns on books you purchased, check that none of the four corner posts on the outer holder have been cracked or can easily come apart.

[Flaming_Telepath]

IIRC, Dupcak actually showed how to open a slab here on the boards.

 

The post/thread obviously disappeared pretty quickly.

[TheLiamSturgess]

I think I need to show you guys a picture when i get home from my exam.

[OldGuy]

it would be super hard to do that ..really..

 

Have you tried? No.

 

It's really not that hard. Like anything else it's all about technique and a little practice. If you don't understand how to do it then it will certainly seem difficult.

 

As has already been mentioned, a thread was posted here 8 or 9 years ago with pictures and instructions demonstrating just how easily it can be.

 

I build computer systems for a living. To some people it seems like magic. It's not.

[Dale Roberts]

I believe the slabs have been changed since that time though.

 

I am sure if you have questions about the validity of the book/slab, CGC would be happy to verify it for you.

[OldGuy]

I believe the slabs have been changed since that time though.

 

They have. So have theft prevention systems on cars.

[blazingbob]

Just CGC's version is called Lo-Crack.

 

Each comic has a very tiny tracking chip imbedded into the book and cannot be find.

 

As comics travel around the world they relay their positions.

 

When one is reported missing the Lo-Crack chip is activated and starts beeping it's position to the Lo-Crack CGC police.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Lo-Crack: Sounds like pants for hoodlums.

[Not*Sure*]

it would be super hard to do that ..really..

 

Have you tried? No.

 

It's really not that hard. Like anything else it's all about technique and a little practice. If you don't understand how to do it then it will certainly seem difficult.

 

As has already been mentioned, a thread was posted here 8 or 9 years ago with pictures and instructions demonstrating just how easily it can be.

 

I build computer systems for a living. To some people it seems like magic. It's not.

 

Not tried to sneak out a comic and replace it with another but I have taken books out of slabs..and one a friend of mine took out of a slab at a party came out almost perfectly with hardly any damage to the slab..but there was signs and some damage to the slab..and Catrick is pretty effing careful...

 

Was this 8-9 yrs ago before the changes were made to the slabs???I don't know when they changed them..

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Was this 8-9 yrs ago before the changes were made to the slabs???I don't know when they changed them..

 

Comic-keys/robojo is the guy who posted it, was about 7-8 years ago. When the did the slab design change, and if someone knows for sure that happened, do you know exactly why they changed it? Only thing I recall changing is the label, but the design of the case didn't change at that time.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Was this 8-9 yrs ago before the changes were made to the slabs???I don't know when they changed them..

 

Comic-keys/robojo is the guy who posted it, was about 7-8 years ago. When the did the slab design change, and if someone knows for sure that happened, do you know exactly why they changed it? Only thing I recall changing is the label, but the design of the case didn't change at that time.

 

CGC really needs to make them absolutely tamper proof. That's the way it's done with coins. In the world of Numismatics there are three accepted grading companies (four if you accept ICG), PCGS (No. 1 reputation), NGC (a division of CGC and a very close second rep), ANACS (the oldest, amost universally accepted but considered third tier).. and then you have ICG, who many consider respectable but some do not.

 

ALL coin slabs are literally impossible to make a coin swap. The slabs are perminantly sealed shut and the only way to liberate the coin is to completely destroy the slab. CGC needs to do this with comics.

 

Edit: PS, I really like the bouncies.

[TheLiamSturgess]

The thing that differs between coins and comics is that with a coin, you can't do anything except look at it. With comics, their primary purpose is to be read. This means if they're permanently incased in plastic, no one can read it without potentially damaging the book. People slab books for many reasons. Some only like to look at it, which would work with what you're suggesting. Some people use them as display frames, some people even use them ONLY for the resto check, meaning they will crack them out afterwards. Others still make a hobby or living or whatever by cracking a resubbing books, whether it be for a press and upgrade or Signature opp. If CGC were to make the cases and indestructable as possible, that would limit the market for the books and all the CGC haters would have a reason to be mad about a "comic forever trapped in plastic".

 

I personally think that these incidents are SO rare, they aren't even worth worrying about. However, I do see your point and I don't blame you for being of that opinion. (thumbs u You just need to understand the difference between the CGC slabs and the coin slabs.

[USArmyParatrooper]

The thing that differs between coins and comics is that with a coin, you can't do anything except look at it. With comics, their primary purpose is to be read. This means if they're permanently incased in plastic, no one can read it without potentially damaging the book. People slab books for many reasons. Some only like to look at it, which would work with what you're suggesting. Some people use them as display frames, some people even use them ONLY for the resto check, meaning they will crack them out afterwards. Others still make a hobby or living or whatever by cracking a resubbing books, whether it be for a press and upgrade or Signature opp. If CGC were to make the cases and indestructable as possible, that would limit the market for the books and all the CGC haters would have a reason to be mad about a "comic forever trapped in plastic".

 

I personally think that these incidents are SO rare, they aren't even worth worrying about. However, I do see your point and I don't blame you for being of that opinion. (thumbs u You just need to understand the difference between the CGC slabs and the coin slabs.

 

I'm not following the logic of what you're saying. As it stands right now you remove a comic from the CGC slab it is no longer certified, correct? They obviously went through some effort to make them "tamper proof" otherwise the service itself would be worthless. Even now nobody can read a CGC certifed comic otherwise you damage the case and it loses its certification.

 

There's no functional difference in what I'm suggesting besides tightening their security.

[TheLiamSturgess]

The thing that differs between coins and comics is that with a coin, you can't do anything except look at it. With comics, their primary purpose is to be read. This means if they're permanently incased in plastic, no one can read it without potentially damaging the book. People slab books for many reasons. Some only like to look at it, which would work with what you're suggesting. Some people use them as display frames, some people even use them ONLY for the resto check, meaning they will crack them out afterwards. Others still make a hobby or living or whatever by cracking a resubbing books, whether it be for a press and upgrade or Signature opp. If CGC were to make the cases and indestructable as possible, that would limit the market for the books and all the CGC haters would have a reason to be mad about a "comic forever trapped in plastic".

 

I personally think that these incidents are SO rare, they aren't even worth worrying about. However, I do see your point and I don't blame you for being of that opinion. (thumbs u You just need to understand the difference between the CGC slabs and the coin slabs.

 

I'm not following the logic of what you're saying. As it stands right now you remove a comic from the CGC slab it is no longer certified, correct? They obviously went through some effort to make them "tamper proof" otherwise the service itself would be worthless. Even now nobody can read a CGC certifed comic otherwise you damage the case and it loses its certification.

 

There's no functional difference in what I'm suggesting besides tightening their security.

 

I don't think we're talking about the same thing here - would your 100% tamper proof holders be openable? In that case, then yes, you are correct. I took your post to mean they can't easily be opened without smashing the case.

[littlebill]

robojo has a lot of cgc books listed on ebay. it has been pointed out in other threads. i have looked at some of his books on ebay before i realized they were his books then i just moved on.

 

 

 

he has a lot of high grade cgc books for sale at really nice prices. would love to have seen the thread where he took a book out of the case. definately makes me see his cgc auctions in another light.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I don't think we're talking about the same thing here - would your 100% tamper proof holders be openable? In that case, then yes, you are correct. I took your post to mean they can't easily be opened without smashing the case.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Not necessarily "smashing" but definitely destroying the case would be necessary. You still would have the option to remove the comic, as you do now, but (as is the same now) removing the comic means it is no longer certified.

 

The only functional difference I'm suggesting is that they're designed in a way that no skilled craftsman can slyly switch comics and/or label. Removing either requires the case to be completely destroyed.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Given the fragility of the contents, I think any requirement that the case be 'completely destoyed' would also involve great risk to the comic?