Does anyone here buy speculative comics off the shelf?

[N/A]

I speculate if the story is good or not

 

I used to do this until I liquidated 10 long boxes for $50 each. I only buy what I would like to read. I hit on Chew and missed Morning Glories. If you want to buy multiple titles it's alot of work to do the quick flip.

[bababooey]

I think a "modern market report" from the dealer perspective would be an interesting addition to the modern forum.

 

Discussing sell outs, trends (pull list + or -), hot variants impact of digital, DC reboot or whatever...

 

 

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

The problem I see with speculation is that it falsely inflates the market, and hurts the

When the market crashes, it puts shops out of business, scares talent away from the business, drives customers out of the hobby, and creates a playing field that only the big guys can withstand (so all we get is the same old ).

 

I think what Larry did here maybe had an air of 'fun' to it at first, but he didn't handle the questions about it very well. As an example, if he does respond to this thread, he'll see what I just wrote as some kind of slight.

 

Too many of us were around to see the crash and burn last time (the comic market, not Larry) and it still gives us a trigger response. It was ugly.

 

I'm talking about buying a few, single copies of comics here and there. I'm not worried about single handedly crashing the market. I don't think my local dealers are too worried about why I'm buying their comics either.

[shadroch]

 

Suppose you buy five copies of five books per month, after researching the market( a step you seem to have skipped with your last purchase for flipping), and do so for a year.

At years end, you will have bought 300 copies of 60 titles. Lets assume you worked out a small discount and paid $2.50 a pop. You have laid out $750.

We'll skip the bags and boards as they aren't really impotant, but they do add up.

Lets say you have a 20% success rate and each success is sold for $10 a copy. You now have $600 and 240 comics you might get fifty cents a pop-if you had a place you could sell them at no cost to you.

You'll be buying retail and selling mostly wholesale- a business practice that rightfully has not caught on.

You'd be much better off using the $750 to try and buy underpriced hot books.

[sakaridis]

Yeah--I've speculated on exactly three moderns in the last five years:

 

Dark Tower (1st mini) # 1 (x 10 at $3.00 per)

American Vampire # 1 (x 10 at $2.50 per)

Brave & Bold # 1 (x 10 at $2.50 per).

 

Theory on the former two is that there's far more Stephen King fans out there than comics fans. On the latter? Loved the Perez outwork and thought it might be the next "Superman/Batman 1."

 

Of those, only Dark Tower # 1 worked out--note that each of these was pre-ordered at a discount before release.

It did?

 

I had no idea that Dark Tower: Gunslinger Born #1 was worth anything above cover price.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Suppose you buy five copies of five books per month, after researching the market( a step you seem to have skipped with your last purchase for flipping), and do so for a year.

At years end, you will have bought 300 copies of 60 titles. Lets assume you worked out a small discount and paid $2.50 a pop. You have laid out $750.

We'll skip the bags and boards as they aren't really impotant, but they do add up.

Lets say you have a 20% success rate and each success is sold for $10 a copy. You now have $600 and 240 comics you might get fifty cents a pop-if you had a place you could sell them at no cost to you.

You'll be buying retail and selling mostly wholesale- a business practice that rightfully has not caught on.

You'd be much better off using the $750 to try and buy underpriced hot books.

 

I just want to reiterate that this is just for fun. I'm literally only talking about buying one copy of a speculative comic here and there. At worst it ends up worthless and it's likely at least a half decent read.

 

As far as the Captain Marvel comics I didn't buy those speculating an increase in value. I tallied the GPA for all of them and came up with about $1933. I bought them for $1260 after shipping. I also did realize that they weren't exactly hot movers. Even though I'm new to comics I'm good at deductive reasoning. First, there was very little activity on GPA. But then there's also the fact that they're very cheap for high grade, golden age comics.

 

From my coin experience I have never, ever gone wrong trusting closed auction prices. The only risk factor is market fluctuations - and it would take one hell of a nose dive to make me lose money on this. For good measure I went back to find issues that did have recent sales and compared them to previous years. Some were up, some were down - on the whole I calculated a slight softening

 

I still stand by my decision, but time will tell. Phase 1 will be this weekend when I offer it to a few different dealers (this is just on the off chance I can make a couple hundred). After that I'll put them on Ebay for GPA BIN prices.

 

Time will tell how it works out.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Still bullish on Hack Slash. Movie ever gets into production watch out.

Has a loyal audience and the book is a good read.

(thumbs u

[ComicConnoisseur]

The problem I see with speculation is that it falsely inflates the market, and hurts the

When the market crashes, it puts shops out of business, scares talent away from the business, drives customers out of the hobby, and creates a playing field that only the big guys can withstand (so all we get is the same old ).

 

I think what Larry did here maybe had an air of 'fun' to it at first, but he didn't handle the questions about it very well. As an example, if he does respond to this thread, he'll see what I just wrote as some kind of slight.

 

Too many of us were around to see the crash and burn last time (the comic market, not Larry) and it still gives us a trigger response. It was ugly.

There will never be a crash and burn today like the 1990`s. Back then comic books sold in the millions because of speculation.Today a speculative Image comic may get 7000 copies sold if they are that lucky. The 1990`s compared to now is night and day.

Example

Spawn #1 sold over a million copies because of speculators.

Skullkickers #1 didn`t sell 6000 copies even with speculators.

[mister_not_so_nice]

I speculate if the story is good or not

 

I used to do this until I liquidated 10 long boxes for $50 each. I only buy what I would like to read. I hit on Chew and missed Morning Glories. If you want to buy multiple titles it's alot of work to do the quick flip.

 

That's what I was getting at. I buy a single copy of a book that looks like I might like the story. I'm "speculating" if I will enjoy it or not. I don't buy multiples, and I <3 your sales threads

[troydivision1]

It is fun / exciting to speculate / flip moderns.

I have found that shops pay almost no attention (save variants and the issues that the comic companies PR teams manufacture interest in) to 'moderns heating up eBay'.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Hey, what's the deal with Nonplayer 1? I thought I read on the board that number 2 won't be coming out for months?

 

I bought a nice NP1.

[DomUga]

I always lose so from now on I buy to read and if I like it I buy the rest in my LCS

[RockMyAmadeus]

i'd ask Larry

 

Hey! I enjoyed those threads. I thought it was fun to listen to people discuss the 'next big hit' and see how it played out. Too bad everyone couldn't just play nice.

 

See Seanfingh's post above.

 

Is it acting out of hate...or love...to warn people about things that can harm them?

 

And does losing money on speculation harm people?

 

I don't want to rehash old threads, and I should know better....

 

but did Larry tell people to empty their 401k's and stock up on Skull Kickers or did he just pick out the book he thought had a chance every week? I thought he was just picking books every week for fun and discussion. To me it was like watching the analysts pick NFL games then going back on Monday and seeing how they did.

 

Sure, Larry doesn't always handle himself well but I seem to recall him being provoked a little and questioned in the thread. I'm too lazy to confirm this.

 

No, Larry didn't tell everyone to empty their 401ks. Granted.

 

I dunno if you went through the 90's, but Larry did, and he should know better. It was a bloodbath. Not just the guys who should never have been in business, but a lot of great, long term guys lost everything. Stores that had been open since the 70's had to close their doors because they couldn't continue with the business model forced upon them. Some of them held the line and refused to order multiples for individual customers, which just meant they lost them to the store down the street...and the store down the street just lost them when those same speculators tried to cash in and couldn't. The industry lost thousands upon thousands of readers, one copy guys and gals, who got fed up with having to fight with speculators just to get their books. Incredibly short-sighted dealers stiffed their bread and butter customers to sell "the latest hot book" for $20, rather than $1.25-$2.50.

 

Yeah, so guys like McFarlane had to deal with fewer millions of dollars...but talented guys in the Indie scene, like Drew Hayes and Terry Moore, and lots of even lower on the totem guys got whacked. Some managed to hold on, but a lot couldn't. People lost everything, in some cases, a lifetime worth of work.

 

And why? Because the kids were running the candy store, printing millions and millions of comics that never should have been printed, building a house of cards on a foundation of nothing but paper. The higher the house, the greater the crash, and there wasn't a higher house than 1993. If the speculation bubble and meltdown hadn't happened, these guys would have had a much better chance. The market would have been much more stable, and the Comics Renaissance of the early 90's could have lasted a decade or more..rather than 3 years.

 

Many guys have run the numbers just like Shad and Maloney had, and it always comes out the same.

 

Sure, making money on the odd book IS fun. But the thing is, it's gambling. Sure, gambling in Vegas isn't going to hurt anyone but you. But gambling on new books can hurt you, the stores, the publishers, and the creators.

 

Especially in this delicate market, where a couple hundred copies sold means the difference between cancellation or not, initial buyers are critical to a book's success. If, for example, the speculators scoop up every copy of Skullkickers #1 there is, that means the casual reader probably won't be able to pick one up. If that casual reader can't find it, there's a real chance they'll never pick it up, later printings or not. Multiply that one reader by the several hundred shops that order it, and that book no longer exists, good, bad, or in between.

 

As Chuck said, it screws with the market, and ultimately with people's livelihood. If were were talking about 250,000 copies sold a month, on average, no problem. When we're talking about 12,000 copies a month, on average...well, it spells disaster.

 

This is SUCH an amazing artform. Quintessentially American, part of the fabric of our culture. I would hate to have it go the way of the whip and buggy, but this kind activity just hastens its demise. It's just too delicate to play with it like this.

 

[porcupine48]

I used to love trading hot modern books for any SA I could

find in the early 90's.I would travel on my bike to all the out of

city Ma and Pops that kept the books, it seemed, forever,

and bring them downtown.Ah,thank you Silver Surfer 50 et all!!

[Prince Namor]

The problem I see with speculation is that it falsely inflates the market, and hurts the

When the market crashes, it puts shops out of business, scares talent away from the business, drives customers out of the hobby, and creates a playing field that only the big guys can withstand (so all we get is the same old ).

 

I think what Larry did here maybe had an air of 'fun' to it at first, but he didn't handle the questions about it very well. As an example, if he does respond to this thread, he'll see what I just wrote as some kind of slight.

 

Too many of us were around to see the crash and burn last time (the comic market, not Larry) and it still gives us a trigger response. It was ugly.

There will never be a crash and burn today like the 1990`s. Back then comic books sold in the millions because of speculation.Today a speculative Image comic may get 7000 copies sold if they are that lucky. The 1990`s compared to now is night and day.

Example

Spawn #1 sold over a million copies because of speculators.

Skullkickers #1 didn`t sell 6000 copies even with speculators.

 

That's the point.

Most comics today sell a minimum needed to publish.

It wouldn't survive a crash.

[ComicConnoisseur]

The problem I see with speculation is that it falsely inflates the market, and hurts the

When the market crashes, it puts shops out of business, scares talent away from the business, drives customers out of the hobby, and creates a playing field that only the big guys can withstand (so all we get is the same old ).

 

I think what Larry did here maybe had an air of 'fun' to it at first, but he didn't handle the questions about it very well. As an example, if he does respond to this thread, he'll see what I just wrote as some kind of slight.

 

Too many of us were around to see the crash and burn last time (the comic market, not Larry) and it still gives us a trigger response. It was ugly.

There will never be a crash and burn today like the 1990`s. Back then comic books sold in the millions because of speculation.Today a speculative Image comic may get 7000 copies sold if they are that lucky. The 1990`s compared to now is night and day.

Example

Spawn #1 sold over a million copies because of speculators.

Skullkickers #1 didn`t sell 6000 copies even with speculators.

 

That's the point.

Most comics today sell a minimum needed to publish.

It wouldn't survive a crash.

My point is there wouldn`t be no crash, as the modern comic book market has already bottomed out. A few speculators might actually bring up sales again. Imagine some titles selling in the millions again? Even at a 100,000 copies? That would be good for the overall modern comic book market, as right now modern comics sales continue to putter around and get lower. Jeez if no Walking Dead. Chew or other certain titles came out things might even be direr. At least they brought some new life and new interest to the table with not only good reading stories,but with some speculation as well.

So some speculation is healthy for the hobby.

[LarrysComics]

Hey Miserables:

 

Of course I STILL speculate on modern comics. You guys have NO clue.

Yesterday, I bought 300 Cape #1's

I know, I know... It's a gross disservice to IDW Publishing, Joe Hill, Jason Charimella and small press creators everywhere by falsely inflating their numbers.

 

I'm such a .

 

I have been conducting the comic shop census for ComicsPro ( I'm one of its oldest members) There are currently ONLY 1,700 dm shops left in the world of which, I would estimsate 300 that spend any significant money on monthly independent comics. I'm one of them. Without us, they go direct to digital.

 

Try slabbing a digital comic.

 

 

Did great with Amazing Spider-Man #666 variant yesterday in shop and online.

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/07/26/president-obama-appears-on-the-cover-of-amazing-spider-man-666-and-hes-not-alone/

 

I was suprised how many shops simply "mailed it in" by slapping their logo on the book or a generic photo. Got customers involved so they had a "stake" in the book & got a little creative with photoshop.

 

I had to cancel local press because I'm almost sold out. I outsold by 4X most of my local peers yesterday because of a little promotional energy.

 

http://larryscomics.net/images/shop/tsolv3_larrys.jpg>

 

The poor guys at Th3rd World. I have inflated their numbers for years.

 

http://larryscomics.net/shop.html'>http://larryscomics.net/shop.html

 

Not even close to: Respectfully. I can't stand most of you.

Have fun hating each other.

 

Larry Doherty

Larry's Wonderful, Wonderful World of Comics n such.

978-459-5323

larryscomicsinc@aol.com

 

http://larryscomics.net

http://facebook.com/larryscomics

http://twitter.com/larryscomics

 

 

 

[paperheart]

Hey Miserables:

 

Of course I STILL speculate on modern comics. You guys have NO clue.

Yesterday, I bought 300 Cape #1's

I know, I know... It's a gross disservice to IDW Publishing, Joe Hill, Jason Charimella and small press creators everywhere by falsely inflating their numbers.

 

I'm such a .

 

I have been conducting the comic shop census for ComicsPro ( I'm one of its oldest members) There are currently ONLY 1,700 dm shops left in the world of which, I would estimsate 300 that spend any significant money on monthly independent comics. I'm one of them. Without us, they go direct to digital.

 

Try slabbing a digital comic.

 

 

Did great with Amazing Spider-Man #666 variant yesterday in shop and online.

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/07/26/president-obama-appears-on-the-cover-of-amazing-spider-man-666-and-hes-not-alone/

 

I was suprised how many shops simply "mailed it in" by slapping their logo on the book or a generic photo. Got customers involved so they had a "stake" in the book & got a little creative with photoshop.

 

I had to cancel local press because I'm almost sold out. I outsold by 4X most of my local peers yesterday because of a little promotional energy.

 

http://larryscomics.net/images/shop/tsolv3_larrys.jpg>

 

The poor guys at Th3rd World. I have inflated their numbers for years.

 

http://larryscomics.net/shop.html'>http://larryscomics.net/shop.html

 

Not even close to: Respectfully. I can't stand most of you.

Have fun hating each other.

 

Larry Doherty

Larry's Wonderful, Wonderful World of Comics n such.

978-459-5323

larryscomicsinc@aol.com

 

http://larryscomics.net

http://facebook.com/larryscomics

http://twitter.com/larryscomics

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The problem I see with speculation is that it falsely inflates the market, and hurts the

When the market crashes, it puts shops out of business, scares talent away from the business, drives customers out of the hobby, and creates a playing field that only the big guys can withstand (so all we get is the same old ).

 

I think what Larry did here maybe had an air of 'fun' to it at first, but he didn't handle the questions about it very well. As an example, if he does respond to this thread, he'll see what I just wrote as some kind of slight.

 

Too many of us were around to see the crash and burn last time (the comic market, not Larry) and it still gives us a trigger response. It was ugly.

There will never be a crash and burn today like the 1990`s. Back then comic books sold in the millions because of speculation.Today a speculative Image comic may get 7000 copies sold if they are that lucky. The 1990`s compared to now is night and day.

Example

Spawn #1 sold over a million copies because of speculators.

Skullkickers #1 didn`t sell 6000 copies even with speculators.

 

That's the point.

Most comics today sell a minimum needed to publish.

It wouldn't survive a crash.

My point is there wouldn`t be no crash, as the modern comic book market has already bottomed out. A few speculators might actually bring up sales again. Imagine some titles selling in the millions again? Even at a 100,000 copies? That would be good for the overall modern comic book market, as right now modern comics sales continue to putter around and get lower. Jeez if no Walking Dead. Chew or other certain titles came out things might even be direr. At least they brought some new life and new interest to the table with not only good reading stories,but with some speculation as well.

So some speculation is healthy for the hobby.

 

I would be incredibly surprised if more than 10 people pre-ordered multiple copies of Walking Dead #1 on spec, which is one of the reasons it's so valuable.

 

Which, by the way, is awesome. More valuable = higher revenues from reprint streams = ability to publish other stuff that Image might not otherwise have the capital to print.

 

WD became valuable because it stood head and shoulders, creative-wise, over everything else published by Image that year (most of which have similar, or lower, numbers than WD #1.) It wasn't speculation that created the Walking Dead juggernaut...it was quality.

 

Chew, maybe. Walking Dead? 2003 was a recovery year, but it wasn't that much better than 2000-2001 (the horrible years.) People were focused on Jim Lee's Batman, and ignored WD completely.

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Hey Miserables:

 

Of course I STILL speculate on modern comics. You guys have NO clue.

Yesterday, I bought 300 Cape #1's

I know, I know... It's a gross disservice to IDW Publishing, Joe Hill, Jason Charimella and small press creators everywhere by falsely inflating their numbers.

 

I'm such a .

 

I have been conducting the comic shop census for ComicsPro ( I'm one of its oldest members) There are currently ONLY 1,700 dm shops left in the world of which, I would estimsate 300 that spend any significant money on monthly independent comics. I'm one of them. Without us, they go direct to digital.

 

Try slabbing a digital comic.

 

The irony here is palpable. Larry doesn't realize that one is the direct cause of the other.

 

Of course, as must always be kept in mind is that Larry is a retailer and thus has multiple opportunities to both take advantage of hits and mask losses that the average consumer does not have.

 

It's great that Larry orders so many copies of whatever. But how many thousands of copies of books has he had to dump that didn't work out? And how many of those books *might* have worked had they not been sucked out of the market, but rather widely distributed for their intended retail price...? We'll never know.

 

I know this: there were "Larry's Comics" variants in the junk boxes at SD.