There IS a market for ultra rare Copper books...

[Jeffreykli]

History has proven that it's apples to oranges, but when the dentist dropped major cash (at the time) for the Church Action #1, most people thought he was crazy. Fast forward thirty years, and he's a genius. He probably didn't care about the price, and the satisfaction gained by his ownership, I'd venture to guess, has far exceeded the actual monetary cost.

[valiantman]

By the way, where's Valiantman at?

I don't know... who posted right before you?

 

[Bosco685]

By the way, where's Valiantman at?

I don't know... who posted right before you?

 

Some nut that is zany over a company we both appreciate. Don't get him started.

[seanfingh]

 

PS: -5 points for you for jamming yet another coinee analogy into a response.

[Green]

That is an ultra rare modern book.

I hear there is a market for those.

[COI]

Yeah, and the person who paid $2,500 for a Harbinger 1 was dumb. Ditto the folks who paid for the first 9.8 copies of books like Hero For Hire 1 from 20 years earlier, only to see the value plummet by 80% when more copies emerged.

 

I'm 16 books away from a Valiant/Acclaim set (including all variants). And I will never be done, because, while I could see paying market for the others, I refuse to pay the money required for a Bloodshot 0 Platinum.

 

There were multiple people who paid $2500 for Harby #1, not just one.

 

As far as being "dumb", it may in fact be a bad investment...but not everyone buys things because they want a return on their money (witness M Night Shyamalan films still being made.) Nobody knows the future. There might STILL only have been 20 copies of Harby #1 in 9.8. Nobody knew the census would triple.

 

And though this doesn't get brought up a lot, the reality is that life is finite, and for some people, the thrill of completion during that lifetime is far more important than what it may cost. When will the opportunity to own XX come up again? Who knows. People collect things partly because there's a psychological reward in completing collections, however that is defined. Very few people have pride in the phrase "complete collection, except..."

 

Louis Eliasberg Sr put together a complete collection of every single coin (then known) ever minted by the US Mint. As he got further and further, his goal became more and more well known, and he had to pay some ridiculous prices for the last coins in the set.

 

But you know what? He did it. And he enjoyed his complete collection for 25 years. And he's the only person to have done it. And his coins sold for vastly more than he purchased them for after he died.

 

The guy who bought the first Harby #1 for $2550 off eBay STILL doesn't regret it. You cannot put a price on that kind of satisfaction.

 

 

 

Yet another distinction people have trouble making is the difference between a bad purchase, and a bad investment. I think this is because there are very few actual "collectors".

 

To use Sean's example of early adopters, I'll go out and spend a full $60 on a new game the day it comes out, because I want to try it the day it comes out. I could wait 3 months and buy it for $20-$30, but I want it when I want it. No one would bat an eyelash at this even though I do it many times a year, yet somehow someone spending good money on a collectible that they want, simply because the want it, is inconceivable to some. I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

 

 

[COI]

Btw, didn't know that was you on ebay. You have a couple of books that rock my world, now that I'm on my modern/copper kick.

[Prince Namor]

Yeah, and the person who paid $2,500 for a Harbinger 1 was dumb. Ditto the folks who paid for the first 9.8 copies of books like Hero For Hire 1 from 20 years earlier, only to see the value plummet by 80% when more copies emerged.

 

I'm 16 books away from a Valiant/Acclaim set (including all variants). And I will never be done, because, while I could see paying market for the others, I refuse to pay the money required for a Bloodshot 0 Platinum.

 

There were multiple people who paid $2500 for Harby #1, not just one.

 

As far as being "dumb", it may in fact be a bad investment...but not everyone buys things because they want a return on their money (witness M Night Shyamalan films still being made.) Nobody knows the future. There might STILL only have been 20 copies of Harby #1 in 9.8. Nobody knew the census would triple.

 

And though this doesn't get brought up a lot, the reality is that life is finite, and for some people, the thrill of completion during that lifetime is far more important than what it may cost. When will the opportunity to own XX come up again? Who knows. People collect things partly because there's a psychological reward in completing collections, however that is defined. Very few people have pride in the phrase "complete collection, except..."

 

Louis Eliasberg Sr put together a complete collection of every single coin (then known) ever minted by the US Mint. As he got further and further, his goal became more and more well known, and he had to pay some ridiculous prices for the last coins in the set.

 

But you know what? He did it. And he enjoyed his complete collection for 25 years. And he's the only person to have done it. And his coins sold for vastly more than he purchased them for after he died.

 

The guy who bought the first Harby #1 for $2550 off eBay STILL doesn't regret it. You cannot put a price on that kind of satisfaction.

 

 

 

Yet another distinction people have trouble making is the difference between a bad purchase, and a bad investment. I think this is because there are very few actual "collectors".

 

To use Sean's example of early adopters, I'll go out and spend a full $60 on a new game the day it comes out, because I want to try it the day it comes out. I could wait 3 months and buy it for $20-$30, but I want it when I want it. No one would bat an eyelash at this even though I do it many times a year, yet somehow someone spending good money on a collectible that they want, simply because the want it, is inconceivable to some. I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

 

 

Good example.

 

Y'know, I have a harder time understanding the guy who doesn't spend the money to buy something he WANTS, than I do the guy who spends TOO MUCH on the things he wants.

[Green]

Yeah, and the person who paid $2,500 for a Harbinger 1 was dumb. Ditto the folks who paid for the first 9.8 copies of books like Hero For Hire 1 from 20 years earlier, only to see the value plummet by 80% when more copies emerged.

 

I'm 16 books away from a Valiant/Acclaim set (including all variants). And I will never be done, because, while I could see paying market for the others, I refuse to pay the money required for a Bloodshot 0 Platinum.

 

There were multiple people who paid $2500 for Harby #1, not just one.

 

As far as being "dumb", it may in fact be a bad investment...but not everyone buys things because they want a return on their money (witness M Night Shyamalan films still being made.) Nobody knows the future. There might STILL only have been 20 copies of Harby #1 in 9.8. Nobody knew the census would triple.

 

And though this doesn't get brought up a lot, the reality is that life is finite, and for some people, the thrill of completion during that lifetime is far more important than what it may cost. When will the opportunity to own XX come up again? Who knows. People collect things partly because there's a psychological reward in completing collections, however that is defined. Very few people have pride in the phrase "complete collection, except..."

 

Louis Eliasberg Sr put together a complete collection of every single coin (then known) ever minted by the US Mint. As he got further and further, his goal became more and more well known, and he had to pay some ridiculous prices for the last coins in the set.

 

But you know what? He did it. And he enjoyed his complete collection for 25 years. And he's the only person to have done it. And his coins sold for vastly more than he purchased them for after he died.

 

The guy who bought the first Harby #1 for $2550 off eBay STILL doesn't regret it. You cannot put a price on that kind of satisfaction.

 

 

 

Yet another distinction people have trouble making is the difference between a bad purchase, and a bad investment. I think this is because there are very few actual "collectors".

 

To use Sean's example of early adopters, I'll go out and spend a full $60 on a new game the day it comes out, because I want to try it the day it comes out. I could wait 3 months and buy it for $20-$30, but I want it when I want it. No one would bat an eyelash at this even though I do it many times a year, yet somehow someone spending good money on a collectible that they want, simply because the want it, is inconceivable to some. I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

 

 

Good example.

 

Y'know, I have a harder time understanding the guy who doesn't spend the money to buy something he WANTS, than I do the guy who spends TOO MUCH on the things he wants.

[valiantman]

I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

Good point.

 

If I do something for entertainment ... take the wife to dinner and a movie, it might cost $100, and I expect zero dollars returned to me.

 

If I do something else for entertainment... such as spend $100 on a comic that I enjoy searching for, bidding, winning, buying, receiving, owning... all-the-sudden I need to justify that $100 and expect future dollars returned to me.

 

Why?

[seanfingh]

I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

Good point.

 

If I do something for entertainment ... take the wife to dinner and a movie, it might cost $100, and I expect zero dollars returned to me.

 

If I do something else for entertainment... such as spend $100 on a comic that I enjoy searching for, bidding, winning, buying, receiving, owning... all-the-sudden I need to justify that $100 and expect future dollars returned to me.

 

Why?

 

Because the dinner with the wife could possibly lead to what we will refer to as "Snuggling." This is, in fact, infinite ROI, and like dividing by zero screws up the entire analysis.

[MattP]

Yeah, and the person who paid $2,500 for a Harbinger 1 was dumb. Ditto the folks who paid for the first 9.8 copies of books like Hero For Hire 1 from 20 years earlier, only to see the value plummet by 80% when more copies emerged.

 

I'm 16 books away from a Valiant/Acclaim set (including all variants). And I will never be done, because, while I could see paying market for the others, I refuse to pay the money required for a Bloodshot 0 Platinum.

 

There were multiple people who paid $2500 for Harby #1, not just one.

 

As far as being "dumb", it may in fact be a bad investment...but not everyone buys things because they want a return on their money (witness M Night Shyamalan films still being made.) Nobody knows the future. There might STILL only have been 20 copies of Harby #1 in 9.8. Nobody knew the census would triple.

 

And though this doesn't get brought up a lot, the reality is that life is finite, and for some people, the thrill of completion during that lifetime is far more important than what it may cost. When will the opportunity to own XX come up again? Who knows. People collect things partly because there's a psychological reward in completing collections, however that is defined. Very few people have pride in the phrase "complete collection, except..."

 

Louis Eliasberg Sr put together a complete collection of every single coin (then known) ever minted by the US Mint. As he got further and further, his goal became more and more well known, and he had to pay some ridiculous prices for the last coins in the set.

 

But you know what? He did it. And he enjoyed his complete collection for 25 years. And he's the only person to have done it. And his coins sold for vastly more than he purchased them for after he died.

 

The guy who bought the first Harby #1 for $2550 off eBay STILL doesn't regret it. You cannot put a price on that kind of satisfaction.

 

 

 

Yet another distinction people have trouble making is the difference between a bad purchase, and a bad investment. I think this is because there are very few actual "collectors".

 

To use Sean's example of early adopters, I'll go out and spend a full $60 on a new game the day it comes out, because I want to try it the day it comes out. I could wait 3 months and buy it for $20-$30, but I want it when I want it. No one would bat an eyelash at this even though I do it many times a year, yet somehow someone spending good money on a collectible that they want, simply because the want it, is inconceivable to some. I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

 

 

Good example.

 

Y'know, I have a harder time understanding the guy who doesn't spend the money to buy something he WANTS, than I do the guy who spends TOO MUCH on the things he wants.

 

this is Truth. As someone who has overpaid on several books, i don't have any regrets. Rather, i can enjoy the simple satisfaction of having what i want when i want. Let me give another example; my wife's grandfather told us for years he was a millionaire - over and over again .. and he was, but never spent a dime of it. Then he croaked in. Now his son, my wife's father, is a millionaire ... and he just got back from France ...

 

Spend it if you got it.

[Jeffreykli]

+1

 

Or, if done correctly and often enough, will not cause the wife to question the quantity, value, or frequency of the purchasese, of the comics.

[COI]

I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

Good point.

 

If I do something for entertainment ... take the wife to dinner and a movie, it might cost $100, and I expect zero dollars returned to me.

 

If I do something else for entertainment... such as spend $100 on a comic that I enjoy searching for, bidding, winning, buying, receiving, owning... all-the-sudden I need to justify that $100 and expect future dollars returned to me.

 

Why?

 

I suspect it's because the desire to collect in itself is irrational, and justifying it financially helps to fill in that gap. Everyone consumes, but not everyone collects, so buying a DVD/video game, going out to dinner, going on vacations, or whatever else needs little justification because everyone can identify with that behavior; you're paying for an experience that everyone is familiar with.

 

On the other hand, non-collectors have no understanding of why someone would pay $20, let alone $200, $2000 or $20,000 for certain collectibles, because that joy of ownership for its own sake, and the feeling you get from finally acquiring something you've been searching for, is not something everyone can identify with. So in order to not make it seem "crazy" to others, or to justify excessive spending and possibly alleviate the guilt of indulging, a rationalization is needed, and nothing beats "I can always sell it" or "it'll go up in value and I can make money" as a universal explanation that everyone around the collector can get on board with.

[Brother J]

Everyone has their own way of collecting. Personally, I like to know the comics I am buying are going to hold or exceed the value amount that I paid for them. That's why I don't buy new comics anymore, as 99% of them will drop in value from the inflated prices that paid for them. I like my comics to hold their value, as my tastes in collecting change all the time, so something I might want at some point might not be as important to me down the line. If I decide to sell it, I like to know that I'm not going to lose money on it.

 

I also like to pull books from bargain bins that I know can be re-sold for more in a different venue. It's my main enjoyment with comics. I can spend a little bit of money and come home with a large amount of comics that I am proud to own, secure in the knowledge that if I want to sell them immediately or at some point in the future, I'll make more than I paid for them.

 

So yeah, I think paying $225 for an Ultraverse book is crazy, it's crazy for my method of collecting. It must make sense for the person who bought it, so good for them and good for RMA.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Btw, didn't know that was you on ebay. You have a couple of books that rock my world, now that I'm on my modern/copper kick.

 

Buy them!

 

[COI]

Btw, didn't know that was you on ebay. You have a couple of books that rock my world, now that I'm on my modern/copper kick.

 

Buy them!

 

 

Will you sell them outside of ebay and declare their value at $10 on the customs form?

[Green]

Btw, didn't know that was you on ebay. You have a couple of books that rock my world, now that I'm on my modern/copper kick.

 

Buy them!

 

 

Will you sell them outside of ebay and declare their value at $10 on the customs form?

 

 

[500Club]

Yeah, and the person who paid $2,500 for a Harbinger 1 was dumb. Ditto the folks who paid for the first 9.8 copies of books like Hero For Hire 1 from 20 years earlier, only to see the value plummet by 80% when more copies emerged.

 

I'm 16 books away from a Valiant/Acclaim set (including all variants). And I will never be done, because, while I could see paying market for the others, I refuse to pay the money required for a Bloodshot 0 Platinum.

 

There were multiple people who paid $2500 for Harby #1, not just one.

 

As far as being "dumb", it may in fact be a bad investment...but not everyone buys things because they want a return on their money (witness M Night Shyamalan films still being made.) Nobody knows the future. There might STILL only have been 20 copies of Harby #1 in 9.8. Nobody knew the census would triple.

 

And though this doesn't get brought up a lot, the reality is that life is finite, and for some people, the thrill of completion during that lifetime is far more important than what it may cost. When will the opportunity to own XX come up again? Who knows. People collect things partly because there's a psychological reward in completing collections, however that is defined. Very few people have pride in the phrase "complete collection, except..."

 

Louis Eliasberg Sr put together a complete collection of every single coin (then known) ever minted by the US Mint. As he got further and further, his goal became more and more well known, and he had to pay some ridiculous prices for the last coins in the set.

 

But you know what? He did it. And he enjoyed his complete collection for 25 years. And he's the only person to have done it. And his coins sold for vastly more than he purchased them for after he died.

 

The guy who bought the first Harby #1 for $2550 off eBay STILL doesn't regret it. You cannot put a price on that kind of satisfaction.

 

 

 

Yet another distinction people have trouble making is the difference between a bad purchase, and a bad investment. I think this is because there are very few actual "collectors".

 

To use Sean's example of early adopters, I'll go out and spend a full $60 on a new game the day it comes out, because I want to try it the day it comes out. I could wait 3 months and buy it for $20-$30, but I want it when I want it. No one would bat an eyelash at this even though I do it many times a year, yet somehow someone spending good money on a collectible that they want, simply because the want it, is inconceivable to some. I suspect it's ultimately because most people who "collect" things probably spend more than they should, and therefore have to justify their spending by only buying things that they could pull their money out of, should the wife get too impatient, or the bills too backed up.

 

 

Totally agree. (thumbs u

 

But, just to confuse the issue, is there a point where we can say that pride of ownership can no way account for the price paid? ie NM 98 CGC 9.9 - 11K.

[Jeffro.]

Btw, didn't know that was you on ebay. You have a couple of books that rock my world, now that I'm on my modern/copper kick.

 

Buy them!

 

 

Will you sell them outside of ebay and declare their value at $10 on the customs form?

 

And pay Paypal personal?