Grading

[chriswALKEN]

I was looking to get a few books graded,some for myself and some to help with re-sell value but I'm not sure what the best way to go about it is. Is there a cheaper way other than submitting them myself and paying $50 (min) on return shipping? Is it worth it? I have some Stevens covers that I feel would grade high and would make a nice looking piece in my future comic room/ studio.I also have some hot modern comics such as Walking Dead #1 and Morning Glories #1 first print and a long list of others that I feel should have the grade preserved. Anyone have any insight or ideas? On the webste it states that some comic shops do submissions but is that really any better? And can I trust them?

[faster friends]

Send them to joeypost for submission

[N/A]

Send me a PM. (thumbs u

[Collector-X-migration]

I'm a new member here, but I have some serious issues with how CGC comes up with their grades.

 

Take a look at this hi def scan from Heritage that shows the following book:

Authentic Police Cases #5 (9.0) - NM

 

After looking at the scans, I would say this book is a (Fine to Fine/VF)? 6 to 7 at best. Look at the spine and lower left and right corners.

 

Note: The URL tags are there so you can get the complete link to the highdef images, otherwise it doesn't work. Just highlight the colored parts between the tags and paste that into a new browser tab and it works fine.

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_image_only.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.ha.com%2Flf%3Fsource%3Durl[file%3Aimages%2Finetpub%2Fnewnames%2F300%2F7%2F1%2F0%2F5%2F7105750.jpg]%2Ccontinueonerror[true]%26source%3Durl[file%3Aimages%2Finetpub%2Fwebuse%2Fno_image_available.gif]%2Cif[%28%27global.source.error%27%29]%26sink%3Dpreservemd[true]

 

Now the back of the book. Look at how bad this is off set and all the spine creases

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_image_only.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.ha.com%2Flf%3Fsource%3Durl[file%3Aimages%2Finetpub%2Fnewnames%2F300%2F7%2F1%2F0%2F5%2F7105751.jpg]%2Ccontinueonerror[true]%26source%3Durl[file%3Aimages%2Finetpub%2Fwebuse%2Fno_image_available.gif]%2Cif[%28%27global.source.error%27%29]%26sink%3Dpreservemd[true]

 

Now I don't care how old a book is, condition is condition and age should not be a factor. The older a book, the condition is bound to be less than perfect.

 

However, based on what I'm seeing here, if I just bought a brand new modern day comic off the shelf in the condition the Authentic Police Cases #5 listed above is in, are you seriously saying that would be a 9.0 book?

 

I don't think so but CGC seems to grade books on a age curve. If it's a GA book, it's graded "looser" than a newer book which they appear to grade more harshly. It's this "NON-STANDARD" guideline that kills me. It's like affirmative action for comics. "Oh you're an older book so we can't grade you as hard as we can for a newer book!!!"

 

If CGC would like to chime in and address this, I would be more than happy to listen.

 

Thanks,

 

Collector-X

[mschmidt]

9.0 isn't NM.

 

CGC's "golden age pedigree bump" has been widely documented, and there's no question that if this was a modern book, it would probably be sitting in an 8.5 slab.

 

If you think this book is F/VF, however, it's your grading skills that are off, not CGCs.

 

 

[Boozad]

I don't think so but CGC seems to grade books on a age curve. If it's a GA book, it's graded "looser" than a newer book which they appear to grade more harshly. It's this "NON-STANDARD" guideline that kills me. It's like affirmative action for comics. "Oh you're an older book so we can't grade you as hard as we can for a newer book!!!"

 

Stick to raw books then.

[PovertyRow]

You say Fine to F/VF at best? Where do you get that from? Define your assessment in words.

 

And you say "CGC seems to grade books on a age curve."

 

Why don't you say "cheese is a dairy product?" Why don't you say "Gasoline is flammable!""? Everyone who knows ANYTHING about CGC knows there is a "GA bump". This is not new.

 

Oh yeah - it is "an age curve". Not "a age curve".

 

Yes, your post deserves the Grammar Police!

 

You decided for THIS as your first post? Seriously?

 

[Collector-X-migration]

I'm just going by what my interpretation of the Overstreet Grading guide that has been in use since the 70's gives me. It's about overall condition and I maintain that age shouldn't be a factor.

 

You said: Why don't you say "cheese is a dairy product?" - It is

 

Why don't you say "Gasoline is flammable!""? It is

 

Everyone who knows ANYTHING about CGC knows there is a "GA bump". This is not new. - You should have been able to tell, as this was my first post, this GA bump as you call it is news to me as I am new to CGC and if this is their practice, it only emphasizes the fact that they are misrepresenting the books actual condition.

 

Directly from the CGC website: [font:Book Antiqua]9.0 Very Fine/Near Mint[/font]

 

Let's take classic cars for instance. Would you call a 1954 Corvette with a rust spot right in the middle of the hood, a few dings on the door and cracked lenses a near/mint condition car? Of course not. But this is exactly what CGC is doing. They're saying that since it's an older car, all these little defects don't matter. Try telling that to an avid car collector. He will laugh at you!!!

 

And you say "CGC seems to grade books on a age curve."

 

You just began a sentence with a conjunction. Seems you need the police as well.

 

I will stick to raw books and yes that was my first post. I will also stick to my belief that CGC graded books, at least for GA ones are misrepresented grades. Has CGC come out publicly and stated they grade GA books differently then books of other era's or do they maintain they apply all their grades consistently across the board?

 

Another quote from the CGC Website:

[font:Book Antiqua]Professional comic book grading eliminates concerns about grade misrepresentations by providing an expert assessment of condition and quality. Every comic book certified by CGC is graded by the hobby’s most experienced and trusted team, according to well-established grading standards. Furthermore, every CGC-certified comic book undergoes a thorough restoration check by leading professionals during the certification process. When restoration is detected, it is fully noted on the certification label.[/font]

 

Nope, no statement as to the adjustment of standards for GA books, so they are lying about "eliminating grade misrepresentations". The fact that "everyone" supposedly knows they grade GA books differently still doesn't make it right.

 

 

 

Collector-X

 

 

 

 

 

[PovertyRow]

And you say "CGC seems to grade books on a age curve."

 

You just began a sentence with a conjunction. Seems you need the police as well.

 

Beginning a sentence with the word and is perfectly acceptable and allowable.

[PovertyRow]

I

Another quote from the CGC Website:

[font:Book Antiqua]Professional comic book grading eliminates concerns about grade misrepresentations by providing an expert assessment of condition and quality. Every comic book certified by CGC is graded by the hobby’s most experienced and trusted team, according to well-established grading standards. Furthermore, every CGC-certified comic book undergoes a thorough restoration check by leading professionals during the certification process. When restoration is detected, it is fully noted on the certification label.[/font]

 

Nope, no statement as to the adjustment of standards for GA books, so they are lying about "eliminating grade misrepresentations". The fact that "everyone" supposedly knows they grade GA books differently still doesn't make it right.

 

 

The key is in " according to well-established grading standards". CGC spent a lot of time consulting with dealers, collectors etc. in establishing their grading standards. Some things I agree with. Some things I don't (such as a book with scotch-type tape earns Universal label but archival tape gets a Restored Label).

 

CGC's grading is, ultimately, one entity's opinion. But there are dealers who list their own grading standards. Overstreet has their own standards. There truly is no one grading standard. So it is important to take the time to understand them.

 

To my mind it is more important that CGC applies the "GA bump" consistently across GA books.

 

And the prohibition of beginning a sentence with a conjunction is a myth.instilled in us by elementary school teachers.

 

To quote THE CHICAGO MANUAL OF STYLE: "There is a widespread belief—one with no historical or grammatical foundation—that it is an error to begin a sentence with a conjunction such as 'and', 'but', or 'so'. In fact, a substantial percentage (often as many as 10 percent) of the sentences in first-rate writing begin with conjunctions. It has been so for centuries, and even the most conservative grammarians have followed this practice."

 

To quote Charles Allen Lloyd: “Next to the groundless notion that it is incorrect to end an English sentence with a preposition, perhaps the most wide-spread of the many false beliefs about the use of our language is the equally groundless notion that it is incorrect to begin one with ‘but’ or ‘and.’

[telerites]

And the prohibition of beginning a sentence with a conjunction is a myth.instilled in us by elementary school teachers.

 

To quote THE CHICAGO MANUAL OF STYLE: "There is a widespread belief—one with no historical or grammatical foundation—that it is an error to begin a sentence with a conjunction such as 'and', 'but', or 'so'. In fact, a substantial percentage (often as many as 10 percent) of the sentences in first-rate writing begin with conjunctions. It has been so for centuries, and even the most conservative grammarians have followed this practice."

 

To quote Charles Allen Lloyd: “Next to the groundless notion that it is incorrect to end an English sentence with a preposition, perhaps the most wide-spread of the many false beliefs about the use of our language is the equally groundless notion that it is incorrect to begin one with ‘but’ or ‘and.’

 

And I agree. Even though many of us were taught this, it is not taboo.

 

[Collector-X-migration]

I stand corrected on my grammatical interpretation. And to think this part of the thread started with a typo. My mind was working faster than my fingers.

 

I know that CGC said they interviewed a bunch pf people to come up with their standards, but if they went through all that trouble to come up with something they could use across the board, why do the GA bump in the first place???

 

That's my beef.

 

Thanks,

 

Collector-X

[PovertyRow]

I stand corrected on my grammatical interpretation. And to think this part of the thread started with a typo. My mind was working faster than my fingers.

 

I know that CGC said they interviewed a bunch pf people to come up with their standards, but if they went through all that trouble to come up with something they could use across the board, why do the GA bump in the first place???

 

That's my beef.

 

Thanks,

 

Collector-X

 

I, too was surprised to see the conjunction aspect take control. But such is life on the internet!

 

I think the issue is reflected in your "something they could use across the board". Honestly I don;t think a true across-the-board applicaiton would be viable. When you compare GA books that can be 73 years old to Modern books that can be weeks old, some consideration must be taken for the simple impact of age.Even with things like cars there is something of a "patina" that simply comes with age. Take a wood dash and leather interior of a 60 or 70 years old classic car. It is going to be different from a 2011 car with leather interior and wood dash. just form the patina of age.

 

Older books are produced on with more primitive printing processes, inferior papers and a real lack of Quality Control when compared to modern books. I think all of these factor into a GA bump.

 

I remember when I first came here in 2002 I expressed a similar idea that you did. My take was that if CGC rigidly applied a single grading standard, then over time, as collectors understood the process, a 9.0 in GA would be seen as something like a 9.4 in newer age books.

 

I have changed my mind since then based, unfortunately, on the reality of market perception. I feel the most important thing is not the rigid application of a single grade standard across all books. It is the consistent application of grading standards within age groups, taking into consideration environmental factors and manufacturing quality of the times. So I ultimately decided that it is OK for CGC to allow a GA Bump.

 

PS - Nice use of AND in that sentence! (thumbs u

 

 

 

 

[Collector-X-migration]

I appreciate all the responses and glad this ended in a conversation. I know I can get a little heated and sometimes things escalate into a flame war which doesn't do anyone any good.

 

As you stated you have come to accept the fact they bump with age. I may have to bite that bullet as well even though it goes against what I believe in. As for the patina of age, the only issue I have with that is that a Patina actually looks good on things like bronze and wood. A patina on paper though, not so much.

 

Well, thank you for the stimulating conversation and thanks for letting me know that this is a standard practice. I am now a more informed consumer and will take this information and apply it as I come across more GA graded books.

 

Thank you and have a great day,

 

Collector-X

 

 

 

 

 

[chriswALKEN]

My initial question seems to have been lost in the replies and the subject matter has changed almost entirely

[Doohickamabob]

And the prohibition of beginning a sentence with a conjunction is a myth.instilled in us by elementary school teachers.

 

It is not wrong to begin with a conjunction, but it's bad style if repeated. Most uses of "And" at the beginning of a sentence can be removed with no loss of meaning. This is a case of teachers promoting good style but failing to make the distinction between a hard rule and a good practice.

 

The problem with "And" to start a sentence is that it indicates next to nothing. If one sentence is already following another, the fact that it is continuing a train of thought is implicit and need not be indicated by "And."

 

A similar case can be made for "But." If one idea is being set apart from another idea, the sentence should be strong enough to indicate the contrast without the conjunction. For example, let's say you make a general statement, and your next sentence is, "But that's not always the case." Why couldn't you simply remove the word "But" and be left with "That's not always the case."? It means the same thing.

 

This is why teachers steer students away from "And" and "But" -- to make the writing stronger and clearer. Nonetheless, there is no grammatical rule to it.

 

The question is moot anyway, because the original poster's use of "a" instead of "an" was likely an editing error or typo rather than a dumb mistake. If he had said, "an historic," however, then he'd have some 'splaining to do. I freaking HATE when people write "an historic," as if the H is silent (it isn't!).

 

Just thought you'd need a break from talking about grading and such questionable practices as comparing allowances for a comic's age to affirmative action.

[PovertyRow]

And the prohibition of beginning a sentence with a conjunction is a myth.instilled in us by elementary school teachers.

 

It is not wrong to begin with a conjunction, but it's bad style if repeated. Most uses of "And" at the beginning of a sentence can be removed with no loss of meaning. This is a case of teachers promoting good style but failing to make the distinction between a hard rule and a good practice.

 

The problem with "And" to start a sentence is that it indicates next to nothing. If one sentence is already following another, the fact that it is continuing a train of thought is implicit and need not be indicated by "And."

 

A similar case can be made for "But." If one idea is being set apart from another idea, the sentence should be strong enough to indicate the contrast without the conjunction. For example, let's say you make a general statement, and your next sentence is, "But that's not always the case." Why couldn't you simply remove the word "But" and be left with "That's not always the case."? It means the same thing.

 

This is why teachers steer students away from "And" and "But" -- to make the writing stronger and clearer. Nonetheless, there is no grammatical rule to it.

 

The question is moot anyway, because the original poster's use of "a" instead of "an" was likely an editing error or typo rather than a dumb mistake. If he had said, "an historic," however, then he'd have some 'splaining to do. I freaking HATE when people write "an historic," as if the H is silent (it isn't!).

 

Just thought you'd need a break from talking about grading and such questionable practices as comparing allowances for a comic's age to affirmative action.

 

And your point is? (that was a given)

 

Seriously, in effective writing, any repetition can reduce impact. Beginning sentences with "the" over and over, using the same verb or adjective multiple times in the same or adjoining sentences, etc.

 

A conjunction beginning a sentence is usually intended to add a bit of additional emphasis to that sentence.

 

To get back on track, "affirmative action" is a misinterpretation of my meaning.