DC or Marvel- Who is Currently Winning the Media Wars?

[Ogami]

Movies- hands down, Marvel wins this category.

As a DC fan my opinion is probably biased, but DC does seem to hold its own with comic book films. There's Batman of course, but also films like Road to Perdition, A History of Violence, The Losers, Red, and other decent works.

 

Maybe someone can post the reality of Marvel vs. DC with box office math. "Hands down" just seems strong at first blush.

 

Other than Batman, I didn't know that any of those movies were even "DC" movies, so I can't see how that makes DC the winner. And I speak as someone with a Lone Wolf and Cub avatar and lover of RTP and the rest of the movies you listed. I really am thinking costumes, for the purposes of this discussion.

 

Interesting point, though.

Even restricting it to "costumes" DC had Watchmen, V for Vendetta, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, etc.

 

I'm not saying DC is the box office winner, just that Marvel doesn't automatically win "hands down". It's a spreadsheet question with a factual answer, if anybody has crunched the numbers.

 

I haven't been very clear, Davenport, and I feel that this discussion isn't being fair to you. I promise you, I'm not arbitrarily moving the goalposts- I'm just not making myself clear.

 

I'm not talking about any movie that DC has ever put out under a subsidiary name or any DC titled movie that doesn't involve DC titled characters, (most of which you mentioned) but DC titled, DC universed characters. So no Alan Moore, no indie movies through a subsidiary- just DC suits versus Marvel suits- old school style. And keep in mind, I said, "currently" so I'm also not thinking about the Donner era, for example. Let's start with 2000. That's just eleven years of material. Using your parameters, I certainly see your point. DC has a wide range of material to draw from for building a profitable, quality studio.

 

I was thinking more in line with who is winning using what I am describing. Sorry this wasn't more clear.

[Ogami]

 

If I had to crown an overall media champ right this second, it'd have to be DC with the coverage the DC relaunch has received. This from the mouth of a longtime Marvel fan.

 

Media champ outside looking in, or inside looking out?

 

Outside looking in, I think the current Marvel movies put Marvel over the top.

 

Inside looking out, I agree with you.

[Ogami]

Marvel,as I see DC on its last legs comic book wise. DC just blew their big load with the new reboot and only managed to beat Marvel by a half a percentage point! It will be all downhill marketwise from here on in with the new reboot!

 

[Davenport]

I haven't been very clear, Davenport, and I feel that this discussion isn't being fair to you. I promise you, I'm not arbitrarily moving the goalposts- I'm just not making myself clear.

 

I'm not talking about any movie that DC has ever put out under a subsidiary name or any DC titled movie that doesn't involve DC titled characters, (most of which you mentioned) but DC titled, DC universed characters. So no Alan Moore, no indie movies through a subsidiary- just DC suits versus Marvel suits- old school style. And keep in mind, I said, "currently" so I'm also not thinking about the Donner era, for example. Let's start with 2000. That's just eleven years of material. Using your parameters, I certainly see your point. DC has a wide range of material to draw from for building a profitable, quality studio.

 

I was thinking more in line with who is winning using what I am describing. Sorry this wasn't more clear.

Marvel has certainly done a better job of getting their A-list comic book characters on screen in recent years. No argument there.

 

Personally I keep thinking with each Marvel movie DC will wake up. DC seems to run it's characters as individual properties and ignores they have a stable or "universe" to play with.

 

So far DC makes up for it with direct-to-home animation offerings. But a theatrical World's Finest or Justice League would be so cool (if done right).

 

 

[oakman29]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

[Ogami]

I haven't been very clear, Davenport, and I feel that this discussion isn't being fair to you. I promise you, I'm not arbitrarily moving the goalposts- I'm just not making myself clear.

 

I'm not talking about any movie that DC has ever put out under a subsidiary name or any DC titled movie that doesn't involve DC titled characters, (most of which you mentioned) but DC titled, DC universed characters. So no Alan Moore, no indie movies through a subsidiary- just DC suits versus Marvel suits- old school style. And keep in mind, I said, "currently" so I'm also not thinking about the Donner era, for example. Let's start with 2000. That's just eleven years of material. Using your parameters, I certainly see your point. DC has a wide range of material to draw from for building a profitable, quality studio.

 

I was thinking more in line with who is winning using what I am describing. Sorry this wasn't more clear.

Marvel has certainly done a better job of getting their A-list comic book characters on screen in recent years. No argument there.

 

Personally I keep thinking with each Marvel movie DC will wake up. DC seems to run it's characters as individual properties and ignores they have a stable or "universe" to play with.

 

So far DC makes up for it with direct-to-home animation offerings. But a theatrical World's Finest or Justice League would be so cool (if done right).

 

 

Yeah, I was disappointed to see DC take a play out of the Iron Man playbook to try and make GL more appealing. It felt unnecessary and driven by the studios talking heads. Not sure what's making DC Studios tick at the moment. They do seem insular.

 

I am amazed that Marvel has been able to corral the caliber of stars they have for an Avengers movie. It makes me realize that DC COULD do the same with a WF or League, as you say, but it doesn't seem that they are trying, or could pull it off. The only big name so far that would possibly balk would be Bale.

 

 

On the Marvel front, I'm STILL disappointed that Marvel and Ed Norton couldn't play nice with each other.

[Davenport]

This DCU Online trailer shows the possibilities DC hasn't tapped for feature films. So far, anyway.

I never get tired of seeing it.

 

 

 

[Ogami]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

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[Ogami]

Family over. Can't spare 6 minutes. Will be back.

[oakman29]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

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He's entitled to his opinion,certainly is a valid one.

[ComicConnoisseur]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

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When a company makes the drastic changes like DC did that`s a sign something isn`t right. Bells are going off that the suits at Warner are not happy about the subpar sales of their comic books over the last few years. This reboot seems like a last ditch Hail Mary effort by DC to save their monthly floppy from extinction. It will take awhile though,as they won`t just disappear.

Let`s revisit this in about a year. btw I hope I am wrong,but you can sense a urgency and panic about the whole DC reboot situation.

[Ogami]

This DCU Online trailer shows the possibilities DC hasn't tapped for feature films. So far, anyway.

I never get tired of seeing it.

 

 

 

That's good stuff.

 

Honestly? The future of comic book movies is likely more like this than what we currently have. Avoid the huge paychecks to A listers, and dump all the money into effects, voices and plots. Crank em out like comic books.

[*yoink*-migration]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

^

I

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When a company makes the drastic changes like DC did that`s a sign something isn`t right. Bells are going off that the suits at Warner are not happy about the subpar sales of their comic books over the last few years. This reboot seems like a last ditch Hail Mary effort by DC to save their monthly floppy from extinction. It will take awhile though,as they won`t just disappear.

Let`s revisit this in about a year. btw I hope I am wrong,but you can sense a urgency and panic about the whole DC reboot situation.

 

You are correct that "something isn't right", but it's the entire industry, not just DC. Marvel doesn't have the balls to do what DC did, and I wish they did. My Pull List used to have more Marvel than DC titles, but right around Identity Crisis, DC's writing got much better as Marvel's continued to decline. House of M was the wake-up call for me, that was 3 issues worth of comic stretched out into 7 issues. Just horrible (and one of the reasons I skipped DC's Flashpoint aka DC's HOM).

 

All Marvel does is have event after event, with none of them ever ending, they just leapfrog to the next crossover, a new #1, infinite variant covers, etc. The ending of HOM sucked, the ending of World War Hulk sucked, the ending of Civil War sucked, etc. Marvel has continued to decline over the past decade, story and art, to the point where I get one Marvel comic a month and that's X-Factor, and that's only because it's Peter David. And if Steve McNiven and Jim Cheung ever defect to DC it's all over for Marvel. Oh wait, they'd still have Humberto Ramos and Joe Mad (And what's with all the new no-name Italian artists? They work cheaper?) I would come back to Marvel and give them another try if they have the stones to follow DC's example. Actually, they'd better follow DC's example, or their comic division will be out of business before DC's is.

[herc2000]

I think

 

Comic books, DC is winning (long time coming).

Cartoons, Evens.

Movies, I think marvel is winning.

Reprints and Trades, Evens.

Toys, Marvel is winning.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

^

I

I

I

I

When a company makes the drastic changes like DC did that`s a sign something isn`t right. Bells are going off that the suits at Warner are not happy about the subpar sales of their comic books over the last few years. This reboot seems like a last ditch Hail Mary effort by DC to save their monthly floppy from extinction. It will take awhile though,as they won`t just disappear.

Let`s revisit this in about a year. btw I hope I am wrong,but you can sense a urgency and panic about the whole DC reboot situation.

 

You are correct that "something isn't right", but it's the entire industry, not just DC. Marvel doesn't have the balls to do what DC did, and I wish they did. My Pull List used to have more Marvel than DC titles, but right around Identity Crisis, DC's writing got much better as Marvel's continued to decline. House of M was the wake-up call for me, that was 3 issues worth of comic stretched out into 7 issues. Just horrible (and one of the reasons I skipped DC's Flashpoint aka DC's HOM).

 

All Marvel does is have event after event, with none of them ever ending, they just leapfrog to the next crossover, a new #1, infinite variant covers, etc. The ending of HOM sucked, the ending of World War Hulk sucked, the ending of Civil War sucked, etc. Marvel has continued to decline over the past decade, story and art, to the point where I get one Marvel comic a month and that's X-Factor, and that's only because it's Peter David. And if Steve McNiven and Jim Cheung ever defect to DC it's all over for Marvel. Oh wait, they'd still have Humberto Ramos and Joe Mad (And what's with all the new no-name Italian artists? They work cheaper?) I would come back to Marvel and give them another try if they have the stones to follow DC's example. Actually, they'd better follow DC's example, or their comic division will be out of business before DC's is.

I see DC trying to follow, and copy Marvel`s benchmark example.

Maybe you enjoy the current DC stories better then Marvel`s, but if you asked the majority of comic readers and non- readers which universe they would understand better they would pick Marvel.

Why?The Marvel Universe is easier to understand and more fan friendly.

The Marvel Universe doesn`t need to be rebooted because it was built from the ground up as a coherent universe,while the DC Universe wasn`t built that way. DC was just taking a bunch of different universes(Superman.Batman,Wonder Woman), and trying to stick them together to make them fit.

From the beginning the DC Universe was flawed,and has always been trying to play catch up to Marvel`s benchmark.

[ComicConnoisseur]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

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He's entitled to his opinion,certainly is a valid one.

Thank you for respecting my opinion,and I will say I am respect yours.

Also you are certainly building up quite the war chest of top silver age key picks.

[oakman29]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

^

I

I

I

I

He's entitled to his opinion,certainly is a valid one.

Thank you for respecting my opinion,and I will say I am respect yours.

Also you are certainly building up quite the war chest of top silver age key picks.

Thank you,thank you.

[*yoink*-migration]

DC is bringing alot of new blood into the stores with their new #1s.

 

What do you think about what ComicConnoseiur wrote?

 

^

I

I

I

I

When a company makes the drastic changes like DC did that`s a sign something isn`t right. Bells are going off that the suits at Warner are not happy about the subpar sales of their comic books over the last few years. This reboot seems like a last ditch Hail Mary effort by DC to save their monthly floppy from extinction. It will take awhile though,as they won`t just disappear.

Let`s revisit this in about a year. btw I hope I am wrong,but you can sense a urgency and panic about the whole DC reboot situation.

 

You are correct that "something isn't right", but it's the entire industry, not just DC. Marvel doesn't have the balls to do what DC did, and I wish they did. My Pull List used to have more Marvel than DC titles, but right around Identity Crisis, DC's writing got much better as Marvel's continued to decline. House of M was the wake-up call for me, that was 3 issues worth of comic stretched out into 7 issues. Just horrible (and one of the reasons I skipped DC's Flashpoint aka DC's HOM).

 

All Marvel does is have event after event, with none of them ever ending, they just leapfrog to the next crossover, a new #1, infinite variant covers, etc. The ending of HOM sucked, the ending of World War Hulk sucked, the ending of Civil War sucked, etc. Marvel has continued to decline over the past decade, story and art, to the point where I get one Marvel comic a month and that's X-Factor, and that's only because it's Peter David. And if Steve McNiven and Jim Cheung ever defect to DC it's all over for Marvel. Oh wait, they'd still have Humberto Ramos and Joe Mad (And what's with all the new no-name Italian artists? They work cheaper?) I would come back to Marvel and give them another try if they have the stones to follow DC's example. Actually, they'd better follow DC's example, or their comic division will be out of business before DC's is.

 

 

I see DC trying to follow, and copy Marvel`s benchmark example.

 

Where do you see this? Certainly not in the current comics. All Marvel does is use ham-fisted ret-con instead of MANNING UP and doing what DC did.

 

Maybe you enjoy the current DC stories better then Marvel`s, but if you asked the majority of comic readers and non- readers which universe they would understand better they would pick Marvel.

 

Well, if you can make absolute statements with no facts to back them up, so can I: you're wrong, they'd pick DC.

 

Why?The Marvel Universe is easier to understand and more fan friendly.

 

Are you serious? You honestly don't think Marvel's continuity is as screwed up as DC's? If so, you lack perspective and view these things with blinders and rose-colored glasses on. I would love to re-add some Marvel titles to my pull list if they had the cajones to do what DC did. Look had badly they screwed up Hulk and Spider-Man. And I have an entire comic that tries to explain Wolverine's continuity, and it makes absolutely no sense.

 

The Marvel Universe doesn`t need to be rebooted because it was built from the ground up as a coherent universe,

 

In 1963 it was a coherent universe. DC only has 52 universes, Marvel has many, many more.

 

while the DC Universe wasn`t built that way. DC was just taking a bunch of different universes(Superman.Batman,Wonder Woman), and trying to stick them together to make them fit.

 

That's incorrect.

 

From the beginning the DC Universe was flawed,and has always been trying to play catch up to Marvel`s benchmark.

 

Typical Marvel zombie. Sad. No one with that narrow a mind can be considered a connoisseur of comics, that's for sure.

[Davenport]

I see DC trying to follow, and copy Marvel`s benchmark example.

Maybe you enjoy the current DC stories better then Marvel`s, but if you asked the majority of comic readers and non- readers which universe they would understand better they would pick Marvel.

Why?The Marvel Universe is easier to understand and more fan friendly.

The Marvel Universe doesn`t need to be rebooted because it was built from the ground up as a coherent universe,while the DC Universe wasn`t built that way. DC was just taking a bunch of different universes(Superman.Batman,Wonder Woman), and trying to stick them together to make them fit.

From the beginning the DC Universe was flawed,and has always been trying to play catch up to Marvel`s benchmark.

I think DC Comics print division should look to their animation counterpart for solutions. Bruce Timm and Co. were able to weave story elements into a cohesive viewer-friendly DC Universe across many years and multiple properties.

 

I think the main difference is Print wants to boost sales by any means, where Animation wanted to tell a story first and foremost, which would attract viewers and pull in advertisers.

 

It's almost like Print will destroy their Universe, create a massive accident, in hopes fans will rush to the scene just to witness the carnage. Sure, it creates a spike in sales, but leaves behind a horrible mess to try and clean up. They forget carnage quickly begins to stink.

 

 

[chunkybutt]