Are we in a 'speculative' market?

[Comicopolis]

If I squeeze my left nipple just right I can get a spritz of fluid to shoot about 6 feet away.

It makes my eyes tear up when I do it though.

Not because it hurts, it just makes me a little...emotional. I can't explain it.

 

 

Post a video.

[comicwiz]

How many markets aren't speculative?

 

Stamps, sports cards, and pretty much any nostalgia-based collectible which 60-something collectors used to collect for its memories.

 

Even certain toy collectibles are too complicated to pin down any definitive answer, partly because of the resistance of old school collectors having pretty much everything worth collecting and not needing any items to round out their collections. The second form of resistance I've observed with toy collectibles is toward 3rd-party grading, both from the point of view of the specs it draws in, and for ushering in a new set of standards for grading, which old school purists won't accept as legitimate no matter how you spin the benefits of grading to the hobby.

 

The thing I find most disconcerting about comics is the way the hobby is being pushed to the edge with a focus on keys. It's like walking through a cherry orchard and seeing all the pickers overlooking all the lush, bountiful harvest that needs to be picked using ladders, choosing instead to go only after the low-hanging fruit which can be picked from the ground.

 

There is a fallout from this key-driven craze, and it just doesn't have any legs from a sustainability standpoint, partly because keys make up such a low ratio of the total number of comics sitting in the average persons collection, and partly because we measure any remaining life left in this hobby on a high-grade only mindset, which has an even lower percentage lifespan when we compare the number of high-grade examples to the total population of books.

 

Collectors just don't realize that when we push the hobby to the edge by valuing a tiny pool of books, the only money to be squeezed out is coming from books changing hands the most frequently, and we are simultaneously allowing non or semi key books to be debased by every dealer, not because there isn't any demand or interest, but because they can't make a quick buck on it.

 

Collectors have to figure out a way to point the cherry pickers to the ladder as the only viable way to harvest the orchard, otherwise this hobby won't have any future.

[TupennyConan]

If I squeeze my left nipple just right I can get a spritz of fluid to shoot about 6 feet away.

It makes my eyes tear up when I do it though.

Not because it hurts, it just makes me a little...emotional. I can't explain it.

 

 

[Chespirito]

If I squeeze my left nipple just right I can get a spritz of fluid to shoot about 6 feet away.

It makes my eyes tear up when I do it though.

Not because it hurts, it just makes me a little...emotional. I can't explain it.

 

 

I've seen you do it time and time again..but this is the only picture i have of it...

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

 

The thing I find most disconcerting about comics is the way the hobby is being pushed to the edge with a focus on keys. It's like walking through a cherry orchard and seeing all the pickers overlooking all the lush, bountiful harvest that needs to be picked using ladders, choosing instead to go only after the low-hanging fruit which can be picked from the ground.

 

Do you compare key comics to low lying fruit?

[mikenyc]

If I squeeze my left nipple just right I can get a spritz of fluid to shoot about 6 feet away.

It makes my eyes tear up when I do it though.

Not because it hurts, it just makes me a little...emotional. I can't explain it.

 

 

I've seen you do it time and time again..but this is the only picture i have of it...

 

 

Vomit

[comicwiz]

 

The thing I find most disconcerting about comics is the way the hobby is being pushed to the edge with a focus on keys. It's like walking through a cherry orchard and seeing all the pickers overlooking all the lush, bountiful harvest that needs to be picked using ladders, choosing instead to go only after the low-hanging fruit which can be picked from the ground.

 

Do you compare key comics to low lying fruit?

 

Low-hanging fruit, cherry picked, ripe for the picking.

 

All of the above.

[jjonahjameson1]

How many markets aren't speculative?

 

The underground market

[ComicConnoisseur]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

[Whizzer]

This is a subject that has been rattling around these boards probably since their inception.

 

What is the future of the hobby? What is the future of the market?

 

I don't know any better than anyone else here, however one thing that always bothers me about this discussion is the argument that comic collecting will eventually cease because existing collectors will all die out and won't be replaced because the medium will change, and also cease to exist due to digital alternatives and the pull of alternative entertainment media etc.

 

Sorry, I don't buy it. You can get a digital print of the Mona Lisa with colours far superior to the original, you can make endless copies of it. Does it devalue the original or diminish the desire to see it in the flesh? Not one iota.

 

People collect vintage cars far less efficient and reliable than modern machines. Why would they do such a thing?

 

Maybe, just maybe youngsters and future generations won't be as shallow and one dimensional as some here seem to think. Maybe hunting down the original copies of these old paper artefacts will always be cool to people, in the same way that someone in their thirties now might hunt down a car that went out of production before they were born. Because they appreciate the history of the industry, or they saw it in an old movie, or just because it's cool.

 

Also, and you may want to sit down for this one, my collection will always be a great investment. Why? Because it isn't how I make my living, it's just something that I love and has provided me with a lifetime of pleasure and enjoyment. And someday I will likely sell it, maybe for a lot, maybe for a little, but either way I will get some of my money back. How many other forms of entertainment give you all that.

 

So, maybe we are in a bubble, maybe not, but if we are, and if you are that worried about it I suggest you take a long term position, because the market will probably recover in time as most do eventually. There WILL probably be people still around interested in your books.

 

And in the meantime, if you just relax a little you may find that there is some enjoyment to be had in what is inside all those boxes and shiny plastic slabs.

 

 

 

 

[John R]

How many markets aren't speculative?

 

Stamps, sports cards, and pretty much any nostalgia-based collectible which 60-something collectors used to collect for its memories.

 

Even certain toy collectibles are too complicated to pin down any definitive answer, partly because of the resistance of old school collectors having pretty much everything worth collecting and not needing any items to round out their collections. The second form of resistance I've observed with toy collectibles is toward 3rd-party grading, both from the point of view of the specs it draws in, and for ushering in a new set of standards for grading, which old school purists won't accept as legitimate no matter how you spin the benefits of grading to the hobby.

 

The thing I find most disconcerting about comics is the way the hobby is being pushed to the edge with a focus on keys. It's like walking through a cherry orchard and seeing all the pickers overlooking all the lush, bountiful harvest that needs to be picked using ladders, choosing instead to go only after the low-hanging fruit which can be picked from the ground.

 

There is a fallout from this key-driven craze, and it just doesn't have any legs from a sustainability standpoint, partly because keys make up such a low ratio of the total number of comics sitting in the average persons collection, and partly because we measure any remaining life left in this hobby on a high-grade only mindset, which has an even lower percentage lifespan when we compare the number of high-grade examples to the total population of books.

 

Collectors just don't realize that when we push the hobby to the edge by valuing a tiny pool of books, the only money to be squeezed out is coming from books changing hands the most frequently, and we are simultaneously allowing non or semi key books to be debased by every dealer, not because there isn't any demand or interest, but because they can't make a quick buck on it.

 

Collectors have to figure out a way to point the cherry pickers to the ladder as the only viable way to harvest the orchard, otherwise this hobby won't have any future.

 

+1

[Chespirito]

If I squeeze my left nipple just right I can get a spritz of fluid to shoot about 6 feet away.

It makes my eyes tear up when I do it though.

Not because it hurts, it just makes me a little...emotional. I can't explain it.

 

 

I've seen you do it time and time again..but this is the only picture i have of it...

 

 

Vomit

No, it's actually a soy-like tasting fluid that is very very very thick, almost chewy..that's what I've been told..

[paperheart]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

 

specious argument. how exactly would you take away: Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc? if you took away: the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Cubs and a few more major league baseball teams, you would find the major league baseball market on life support for the most part. you could do this all day long: if you took away Sony, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Disney and a few more major film studios, the movie industry would be on life support for the most part.

[ComicConnoisseur]

How many markets aren't speculative?

 

Stamps, sports cards, and pretty much any nostalgia-based collectible which 60-something collectors used to collect for its memories.

 

Even certain toy collectibles are too complicated to pin down any definitive answer, partly because of the resistance of old school collectors having pretty much everything worth collecting and not needing any items to round out their collections. The second form of resistance I've observed with toy collectibles is toward 3rd-party grading, both from the point of view of the specs it draws in, and for ushering in a new set of standards for grading, which old school purists won't accept as legitimate no matter how you spin the benefits of grading to the hobby.

 

The thing I find most disconcerting about comics is the way the hobby is being pushed to the edge with a focus on keys. It's like walking through a cherry orchard and seeing all the pickers overlooking all the lush, bountiful harvest that needs to be picked using ladders, choosing instead to go only after the low-hanging fruit which can be picked from the ground.

 

There is a fallout from this key-driven craze, and it just doesn't have any legs from a sustainability standpoint, partly because keys make up such a low ratio of the total number of comics sitting in the average persons collection, and partly because we measure any remaining life left in this hobby on a high-grade only mindset, which has an even lower percentage lifespan when we compare the number of high-grade examples to the total population of books.

 

Collectors just don't realize that when we push the hobby to the edge by valuing a tiny pool of books, the only money to be squeezed out is coming from books changing hands the most frequently, and we are simultaneously allowing non or semi key books to be debased by every dealer, not because there isn't any demand or interest, but because they can't make a quick buck on it.

 

Collectors have to figure out a way to point the cherry pickers to the ladder as the only viable way to harvest the orchard, otherwise this hobby won't have any future.

The thing is just about all post 1976 books are in abundance,so there really isn`t much of a challenge or fun to collect them like the Marvel silver age keys or certain golden age comics.Another reason is space. I think a lot of just rather have a few decent keys,then having thousands of $1 comics in long boxes.

[ComicConnoisseur]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

 

specious argument. how exactly would you take away: Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc? if you took away: the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Cubs and a few more major league baseball teams, you would find the major league baseball market on life support for the most part. you could do this all day long: if you took away Sony, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Disney and a few more major film studios, the movie industry would be on life support for the most part.

But, there is always a but with me.

Sony,Paramount, Warner Brothers, and Disney constantly keep things different by making a wide variety of new and interesting movies,while if Spider-man,Batman and the like ever become known as our grandfather`s superheroes like Tarzan is to my generation,then the comic industry would be in big trouble. It`s already happening as ask anyone under 20 years old who is cooler Master Chief Halo or Batman? Ben 10 or Spider-man? You will be surprised at the answers. Just because our generation thinks something is cool doesn`t mean other generations will follow suit.Modern music would be even a bigger an example.

The Marvel keys and Action #1 and Detective #27 million dollars books are fueled by Hollywood hype.

[Whizzer]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

 

specious argument. how exactly would you take away: Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc? if you took away: the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Cubs and a few more major league baseball teams, you would find the major league baseball market on life support for the most part. you could do this all day long: if you took away Sony, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Disney and a few more major film studios, the movie industry would be on life support for the most part.

But, there is always a but with me.

Sony,Paramount, Warner Brothers, and Disney constantly keep things different by making a wide variety of new and interesting movies,while if Spider-man,Batman and the like ever become known as our grandfather`s superheroes like Tarzan is to my generation,then the comic industry would be in big trouble. It`s already happening as ask anyone under 20 years old who is cooler Master Chief Halo or Batman? Ben 10 or Spider-man? You will be surprised at the answers. Just because our generation thinks something is cool doesn`t mean other generations will follow suit.Modern music would be even a bigger an example.

The Marvel keys and Action #1 and Detective #27 million dollars books are fueled by Hollywood hype.

 

 

Ok, but your argument pre-supposes that just because a character or genre isn't popular now it never will be again.

 

Example? Sure; pirates went out of fashion for a long time, along comes Pirates of the Caribbean and pirates are cool again. Vampires, zombies and werewolves are much more popular now than they were 10 years ago.

 

And to use your own analogy; it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that with a good movie or even video game Tarzan couldn't quite easily see a resurgence in interest.

 

These things tend to be cyclical IMHO.

[ComicConnoisseur]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

 

specious argument. how exactly would you take away: Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc? if you took away: the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Cubs and a few more major league baseball teams, you would find the major league baseball market on life support for the most part. you could do this all day long: if you took away Sony, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Disney and a few more major film studios, the movie industry would be on life support for the most part.

But, there is always a but with me.

Sony,Paramount, Warner Brothers, and Disney constantly keep things different by making a wide variety of new and interesting movies,while if Spider-man,Batman and the like ever become known as our grandfather`s superheroes like Tarzan is to my generation,then the comic industry would be in big trouble. It`s already happening as ask anyone under 20 years old who is cooler Master Chief Halo or Batman? Ben 10 or Spider-man? You will be surprised at the answers. Just because our generation thinks something is cool doesn`t mean other generations will follow suit.Modern music would be even a bigger an example.

The Marvel keys and Action #1 and Detective #27 million dollars books are fueled by Hollywood hype.

 

 

Ok, but your argument pre-supposes that just because a character or genre isn't popular now it never will be again.

 

Example? Sure; pirates went out of fashion for a long time, along comes Pirates of the Caribbean and pirates are cool again. Vampires, zombies and werewolves are much more popular now than they were 10 years ago.

 

And to use your own analogy; it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that with a good movie or even video game Tarzan couldn't quite easily see a resurgence in interest.

 

These things tend to be cyclical IMHO.

You just proved my point about movies diversity with other genres while our comic books are relying on just the one genre superheroes. Comic books have all their eggs in one basket,so if Batman,Spider-man,Superman and the like ever start to lose their popularity than my life support analogy will take effect.

With Tarzan a great character,but how can he take on the likes of Transformers or Iron Man in today`s high tech market? What do you think sounds cooler with todays youth a man in leotards swinging on a vine or high-tech robots kicking the out of each other?

It`s like me I love Sherlock Holmes,but my 10 year old son finds him boring,and would rather watch the new Doctor Who tv series.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

 

specious argument. how exactly would you take away: Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc? if you took away: the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Cubs and a few more major league baseball teams, you would find the major league baseball market on life support for the most part. you could do this all day long: if you took away Sony, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Disney and a few more major film studios, the movie industry would be on life support for the most part.

But, there is always a but with me.

Sony,Paramount, Warner Brothers, and Disney constantly keep things different by making a wide variety of new and interesting movies,while if Spider-man,Batman and the like ever become known as our grandfather`s superheroes like Tarzan is to my generation,then the comic industry would be in big trouble. It`s already happening as ask anyone under 20 years old who is cooler Master Chief Halo or Batman? Ben 10 or Spider-man? You will be surprised at the answers. Just because our generation thinks something is cool doesn`t mean other generations will follow suit.Modern music would be even a bigger an example.

The Marvel keys and Action #1 and Detective #27 million dollars books are fueled by Hollywood hype.

 

 

Ok, but your argument pre-supposes that just because a character or genre isn't popular now it never will be again.

 

Example? Sure; pirates went out of fashion for a long time, along comes Pirates of the Caribbean and pirates are cool again. Vampires, zombies and werewolves are much more popular now than they were 10 years ago.

 

And to use your own analogy; it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that with a good movie or even video game Tarzan couldn't quite easily see a resurgence in interest.

 

These things tend to be cyclical IMHO.

You just proved my point about movies diversity with other genres while our comic books are relying on just the one genre superheroes. Comic books have all their eggs in one basket,so if Batman,Spider-man,Superman and the like ever start to lose their popularity than my life support analogy will take effect.

With Tarzan a great character,but how can he take on the likes of Transformers or Iron Man in today`s high tech market? What do you think sounds cooler with todays youth a man in leotards swinging on a vine or high-tech robots kicking the out of each other?

It`s like me I love Sherlock Holmes,but my 10 year old son finds him boring,and would rather watch the new Doctor Who tv series.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

 

specious argument. how exactly would you take away: Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc? if you took away: the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Cubs and a few more major league baseball teams, you would find the major league baseball market on life support for the most part. you could do this all day long: if you took away Sony, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Disney and a few more major film studios, the movie industry would be on life support for the most part.

But, there is always a but with me.

Sony,Paramount, Warner Brothers, and Disney constantly keep things different by making a wide variety of new and interesting movies,while if Spider-man,Batman and the like ever become known as our grandfather`s superheroes like Tarzan is to my generation,then the comic industry would be in big trouble. It`s already happening as ask anyone under 20 years old who is cooler Master Chief Halo or Batman? Ben 10 or Spider-man? You will be surprised at the answers. Just because our generation thinks something is cool doesn`t mean other generations will follow suit.Modern music would be even a bigger an example.

The Marvel keys and Action #1 and Detective #27 million dollars books are fueled by Hollywood hype.

 

 

Ok, but your argument pre-supposes that just because a character or genre isn't popular now it never will be again.

 

Example? Sure; pirates went out of fashion for a long time, along comes Pirates of the Caribbean and pirates are cool again. Vampires, zombies and werewolves are much more popular now than they were 10 years ago.

 

And to use your own analogy; it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that with a good movie or even video game Tarzan couldn't quite easily see a resurgence in interest.

 

These things tend to be cyclical IMHO.

You just proved my point about movies diversity with other genres while our comic books are relying on just the one genre superheroes. Comic books have all their eggs in one basket,so if Batman,Spider-man,Superman and the like ever start to lose their popularity than my life support analogy will take effect.

With Tarzan a great character,but how can he take on the likes of Transformers or Iron Man in today`s high tech market? What do you think sounds cooler with todays youth a man in leotards swinging on a vine or high-tech robots kicking the out of each other?

It`s like me I love Sherlock Holmes,but my 10 year old son finds him boring,and would rather watch the new Doctor Who tv series.

 

Didn't Sherlock Holmes succeed both on the small and big screen recently?

 

So much so that there's a sequel due any time now?

[ComicConnoisseur]

If we took away Spider-man,Superman,Batman,X-men,Walking Dead and a few more Marvel Avenger characters you would find this comic book market on life support for the most part.

Think about it, its those characters that are keeping this hobby relevant with Hollywood movies constantly being made, and not the actual reading and collecting of the comic books themselves.

Imagine if all of a sudden the next Batman or Spider-man movies bomb?

So lets give Hollywood a round of applause for keeping the keys at least in demand.

 

specious argument. how exactly would you take away: Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc? if you took away: the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Cubs and a few more major league baseball teams, you would find the major league baseball market on life support for the most part. you could do this all day long: if you took away Sony, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Disney and a few more major film studios, the movie industry would be on life support for the most part.

But, there is always a but with me.

Sony,Paramount, Warner Brothers, and Disney constantly keep things different by making a wide variety of new and interesting movies,while if Spider-man,Batman and the like ever become known as our grandfather`s superheroes like Tarzan is to my generation,then the comic industry would be in big trouble. It`s already happening as ask anyone under 20 years old who is cooler Master Chief Halo or Batman? Ben 10 or Spider-man? You will be surprised at the answers. Just because our generation thinks something is cool doesn`t mean other generations will follow suit.Modern music would be even a bigger an example.

The Marvel keys and Action #1 and Detective #27 million dollars books are fueled by Hollywood hype.

 

 

Ok, but your argument pre-supposes that just because a character or genre isn't popular now it never will be again.

 

Example? Sure; pirates went out of fashion for a long time, along comes Pirates of the Caribbean and pirates are cool again. Vampires, zombies and werewolves are much more popular now than they were 10 years ago.

 

And to use your own analogy; it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that with a good movie or even video game Tarzan couldn't quite easily see a resurgence in interest.

 

These things tend to be cyclical IMHO.

You just proved my point about movies diversity with other genres while our comic books are relying on just the one genre superheroes. Comic books have all their eggs in one basket,so if Batman,Spider-man,Superman and the like ever start to lose their popularity than my life support analogy will take effect.

With Tarzan a great character,but how can he take on the likes of Transformers or Iron Man in today`s high tech market? What do you think sounds cooler with todays youth a man in leotards swinging on a vine or high-tech robots kicking the out of each other?

It`s like me I love Sherlock Holmes,but my 10 year old son finds him boring,and would rather watch the new Doctor Who tv series.