Pre-Vertigo Crossovers?

[Davenport]

When Swamp Thing Annual #2 kept popping up in that Greatest Comic Ever thread it made me realize what a huge fan I am of that early Karen Berger era. In retrospect it seems like a unique bright spot in comics history.

 

My question is: which DC issues feature pre-Vertigo crossovers? Or the best ones? Those magic moments where the DCU seemed a much larger and stranger universe, just before the Vertigo imprint changed things.

 

One I remember is the JLA appearing in Swamp Thing, and Animal Man had it's moments.

 

 

[Snake Eyes]

 

 

[seanfingh]

When Swamp Thing Annual #2 kept popping up in that Greatest Comic Ever thread it made me realize what a huge fan I am of that early Karen Berger era. In retrospect it seems like a unique bright spot in comics history.

 

My question is: which DC issues feature pre-Vertigo crossovers? Or the best ones? Those magic moments where the DCU seemed a much larger and stranger universe, just before the Vertigo imprint changed things.

 

One I remember is the JLA appearing in Swamp Thing, and Animal Man had it's moments.

 

 

It's been a long time since I read #24, but I am thinking that the JLA never even left the Watchtower. I think Moore was super pissed that he had to include them at all, and made it as minimally invasive as possible.

[Davenport]

It's been a long time since I read #24, but I am thinking that the JLA never even left the Watchtower. I think Moore was super pissed that he had to include them at all, and made it as minimally invasive as possible.

You're probably right. All of those early Swamp Things had a "surreal" quality at the time, which is what I remember most.

 

Adding another...DCCP #85. It proved Superman could be both well written and vulnerable.

 

[Davenport]

The Books of Magic mini was pre-Vertigo. Basically a magical tour through the DCU, I'll add it to the list.

 

[Mr. 10%]

 

 

Thanks for the heads up. You are right: the Karen Berger Vertigo years indeed was a high watermark (thumbs u

[Davenport]

 

Thanks for the heads up. You are right: the Karen Berger Vertigo years indeed was a high watermark (thumbs u

You're welcome. I'm not even sure what that pre-Vertigo timeline would be. What I think of as a unique small "sliver" of time was probably a decade or more.

 

Anyway, no list would be complete without the crossover of Abby's incarceration by Gotham police.

 

[seanfingh]

 

There were some distinctive shifts pre-Vertigo. One of them was the "New Format" shift that took place with Swamp Thing 60. The look of the book changed completely along with Moore leaving.

 

Sandman 1 coming out was a big deal. But at the time it seemed like it was tied to the DCU, because of the John Dee connection to JLA. It quickly moved away from the DCU, despite Vertigo not being launched for a couple of years. Hellblazer had the feel that it was firmly entrenched in the Swamp Thing universe, which was only tangentially related to the DCU.

 

DC may have had a policy (and this is PURE conjecture) that all of these books needed to be in continuity. They technically were, but they really felt different long before the Vertigo line was launched.

[Davenport]

DC may have had a policy (and this is PURE conjecture) that all of these books needed to be in continuity. They technically were, but they really felt different long before the Vertigo line was launched.

How they felt is what makes the crossovers shine imho. At the time is was like DCU characters being fleshed-out in a bizarre literary sense. Like suddenly reading Super Friends written into Salem's Lot or something.

 

Did some quick google-research to find the timeline borders. From Comicvine: The Birth of An Imprint :

"The road to Vertigo's creation began in 1981 when Karen Berger edited her first issue for DC Comics, House of Mystery #292. For over a decade she continued her efforts as a DC editor, publishing comics she actually enjoyed reading. So it was in the dawn of the 90's that she began her efforts to make a special imprint for DC, her own line of titles that people actually wanted to read. This was at a time when people were buying multiple versions of an issue, leaving them unopened, and believing that in some years the comics would be worth millions."

 

So that's the pre-Vertigo edges, 1981 to late 1992 and Vertigo Preview #1.

 

 

[nmtg9]

I loved this period in comics history. Just starting to buy back the Swampy's which I haven't read since the late eighties.

 

Another important change I think was the 'mature readers tag which lead to Moore leaving, around the time of the new format.

 

Swampy, Hellblazer and Green Arrow Long bow Hunters were my faces but I also enjoyed the Shadow andChaykin's Blackhawk (first time I saw the word f... in comics)

 

I was fifteen in 1987 so was ripe for this stuff.

 

(Oh DKR and Watchmen need mentioning too)

 

Think maybe some of the Veitch Swamps crossed over when he travelled back in time, maybe with Western characters??

[Brian48]

 

Wow. That's not the Hawkgirl I remember? Very daring outfit.

[Davenport]

Wow. That's not the Hawkgirl I remember? Very daring outfit.

If I remember he faced down some Thanagarians, not specifically Hawkgirl. Love that Bolland cover though. (thumbs u

 

Another pre-Vertigo:

[Davenport]

I guess a Dolphin appearance qualifies.

 

[mysterio]

Sandman appeared in Swamp Thing #84, and that is the only fairly early crossover that I can think of where any of the Endless crossed over into a non-Sandman title. It happened more often during Vertigo, especially later on.

[Mr. 10%]

Animal-Man, Morrison Doom Patrol, Sandman, Moore Swampthing, Hellblazer (impressive run), Preacher. All that stuff was simply amazing.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Zonker]

When Swamp Thing Annual #2 kept popping up in that Greatest Comic Ever thread it made me realize what a huge fan I am of that early Karen Berger era. In retrospect it seems like a unique bright spot in comics history.

 

My question is: which DC issues feature pre-Vertigo crossovers? Or the best ones? Those magic moments where the DCU seemed a much larger and stranger universe, just before the Vertigo imprint changed things.

 

One I remember is the JLA appearing in Swamp Thing, and Animal Man had it's moments.

 

 

It's been a long time since I read #24, but I am thinking that the JLA never even left the Watchtower. I think Moore was super pissed that he had to include them at all, and made it as minimally invasive as possible.

 

Nice thread!

 

Been a while for me too, Sean, but I remember it a bit differently. I recall Moore's treatment of the JLA in that issue as respectful-- mythic actually -- and so much cooler than the JLA then in its 1980s funk (about to be rebranded as the JLA-Detroit).

 

I think Moore at this point was still embracing his inner fanboy-- I remember reading his recollections of his first trip to the American DC offices in New York and listening in rapt attention to Julie Schwartz relate behind-the-scenes tales of the creation of the DC Silver Age stories. That trip must have happened later than this issue, after Moore's star ascended somewhat.

 

In #24 I think Moore was beginning to play with his idea of the super-hero as the detached god-like being who may no longer be able to relate to what's happening at ground level. Similar to his later Miracleman Olympus arc and Watchmen. The JLA staying up in orbit in their satellite headquarters while Swamp Thing takes care of business down on Earth would play into that.

 

Now a couple of years later when they foisted a Crisis on Infinite Earths tie-in onto Swamp Thing, no doubt Moore's eyes were as he pounded out the -script, and I do think it showed in that case!

[Bosco685]

 

Thanks for the heads up. You are right: the Karen Berger Vertigo years indeed was a high watermark (thumbs u

You're welcome. I'm not even sure what that pre-Vertigo timeline would be. What I think of as a unique small "sliver" of time was probably a decade or more.

 

Anyway, no list would be complete without the crossover of Abby's incarceration by Gotham police.

 

 

 

Some great mentions in here during an amazing period in comics.

[Zonker]

Another thing to remember is while Karen Berger certainly deserves a lot of credit for laying the groundwork in the 1980s that made her Vertigo imprint possible, it wasn't all her doing. Len Wein was the editor of the earliest Alan Moore issues of Saga of the Swamp Thing, and there were other "literary" -- and only nominally super-hero-- 1980s series like The Question that had nothing to do with Berger.

[shiverbones]

Death appears in an issue of captain atom, #42 from june 1990