OT: Anyone collect AFA graded vintage Star Wars figures?

[comicwiz]

About 15 years ago I thought that, Bobba Fett aside, the carded POTF figures were about as scarce/valuable as the 12-backs.

 

Is that still true?

 

I never got into the toys as collectibles, but still have a decent collection of the played-with toys. Gave my 10 year-old nephew my old AT-AT for Christmas this year. Cool thing was, even 25+ years later, the sound effects still worked!

 

Only thing that *might* be of value in my basement is a ratty-looking Imperial Skiff. And by "value," I reckon about $40.

 

From the POTF line, there are what are called the last 17, which were action figures which Kenner hadn't either gotten around to releasing in previous lines, and/or were introduced in the last film. The most valuable, by far, are the Yak Face and Anakin. Luke in Stormtrooper disguise would probably be next, and then there are a few of them that command really strong premiums because they are scarcer than others.

 

The POTF Yak Face was distributed in several markets including Canada, but the U.S. was skipped over. A European TriLogo version exists, but it didn't come with the staff and doesn't command anywhere near the POTF example. The same distribution condition applies to the Anakin POTF. Although in the case of Anakin, there was also a loose mailaway version in addition to the POTF and TriLogo versions.

 

While the POTF was a last attempt by Kenner to save its merchandising property, low demand and sales for them inevitably led to their scarcity.

 

One of the seemingly unfortunate aspects of the POTF and ROTJ lines is that Kenner may have made an economic decision to source different materials (plastics) provider for its bubbles/blisters as they are the newer lines, but seemingly are the ones most susceptible to yellowing.

 

Conversely, 12 Backs which precede the POTF by nearly a decade can be found with clear bubbles, and finding a clear Yak Face or Luke in Stromtrooper in disguise is next to impossible. There was a find of Luke Stormies that had some clear blisters, but simply not enough of them in the wild. As such, clear blisters command a higher premium when they turn up.

[FrankCastle]

Going back 10 years, I can say with certainty the market for U.S carded Star Wars has not been softer (from it's high of 1998-2001). 12 backs have maintained a healthy market, but ESB, ROTJ and yes, even the once scarce and highly sought after POTF, have decreased steadily (as a general rule), over the past 3-4 years. Of course there are exceptions.

 

As Joe was mentioning, POTF clear bubbles still command high dollars, AFA or not. There are also some variations (cardbacks), that still command good money, such as certain figures with no offer opposed to having the offer, what particular back (for example, a Canadian 45 back Removable Limb 3PO is very rare, while the other Canadian 45 backs aren't that difficult to find if you put in the time).

 

As a gereral rule of thumb, try to avoid buy it nows on ebay, as there are alot of guys who were in big during the heydey, trying to get their money back (very similar to comics really). If you search for a certain figure, for example POTF Nikto, it will eventually come up (although very rare--good luck with a clear bubble). Be patient, I know several guys who were able to put together full runs of U.S carded figures over a period of a few years, and the prices are much lower now.

 

Lastly, just remember all those comics from the early 90's that aren't worth a nickel today (well, most of them anyways), and original ESB, and ROTJ figures had print runs very close to what those comics had. Of course most kids were buying the toys to play with them, while cases of comics were being hoarded. But Kenner produced ALOT of Star Wars toys. It was, and still is, the greatest selling action figure line of all time, and I still think they have a while to go before they hit the bottom. I was able to purchase 2 very large carded original collections last year, and it's getting better every year (more guys are getting out).

 

If anyone is thinking about getting started in the Canadian market I'd be happy to lend a hand. I too sold most of my personal collection just as the market was softening. But I still think about jumping back in with both feet because the prices are so much cheaper.

Jay

[The Troll King]

If you want to get extra picky try collecting all of the variations in figures. Never mind "Green Haired Madine" I'm talking about 7 different Stormtroopers, 4 different Biker Scouts, etc.

 

At first glance they all look the same but they are indeed not.

 

Are you talking about the mid 90s junk or the vintage stuff?

 

I'm talking about the vintage stuff. As others on these boards know I sold old toys for many years. Star Wars (vintage only) wad one of my specialties and I know far too much about it all then I care to remember.

 

Understanding the "why" of the variations use to be important to me.

 

I thought you were talking about the vintage stuff but just wanted to make sure before commenting. The amount of variants for the original figures is wild to say the least. A large portion of the collecting community are not even aware of most variants.

 

Now the mid 90s junk to me was sad for the fact that it seemed Kenner created a lot of variants on purpose to just try and drive a secondary market on them.

 

It's easy to believe that, but I'm fairly certain they couldn't have cared less about the secondary ,market. If they had, they wouldn't have dug old molds and recast the vehicles which killed the prices on a lot of them. It also took away a huge segment of people that were collecting vintage specifically for their kids to play with.

 

Not to sound argumentative, but I think they did consider secondary market impacts as all the re-released toys had different COO markings, the figures were articulated differently and looked like they could do a cover shoot for the muscle and fitness mag.

 

I believe even the last hurrah rerelease of Luke, Han, Chewy and Vader that were done in the second phase of POTF (see 4-pack pictured above the MIB Vader TIE) had COO markings that distinguished it from the vintage line.

 

The ships and playsets were all recreated with greater detail, different colouring schemes, feature enhancements (i.e. lights and battle sounds). There is no way anyone, who spends even a minute comparing a vintage AT-AT or Millenium Falcon with a rereleased version, could ever mistake a rereleased version as vintage.

 

No, you misunderstand what I was saying.

Kenner/Mattel rereleased items so that they themselves could profit off of the people buying out of the secondary market. It wasn't that they were concerned about making variants and such FOR the secondary market, because secondary they don't make any money.

 

I had a lot of customers that were buying vintage toys specifically so their own children could play with them. Once the rereleases came out, there was no reason for someone to pay $300 on a boxed Falcon for their child when they could get a rereleased one (with new and improved features as you pointed out) for $50.

 

Kenner/Mattel didn't care about secondary market, but they sure killed it, at least for awhile.

[The Troll King]

Would you guys be shocked to hear that I use to tear open POTF figures, clear bubble or not, because it was easier to sell it loose and mint and then sell the coin separate then it was to sell it in a card that was damaged?

 

I did that to probably 100's of them.

[comicwiz]

If you want to get extra picky try collecting all of the variations in figures. Never mind "Green Haired Madine" I'm talking about 7 different Stormtroopers, 4 different Biker Scouts, etc.

 

At first glance they all look the same but they are indeed not.

 

Are you talking about the mid 90s junk or the vintage stuff?

 

I'm talking about the vintage stuff. As others on these boards know I sold old toys for many years. Star Wars (vintage only) wad one of my specialties and I know far too much about it all then I care to remember.

 

Understanding the "why" of the variations use to be important to me.

 

I thought you were talking about the vintage stuff but just wanted to make sure before commenting. The amount of variants for the original figures is wild to say the least. A large portion of the collecting community are not even aware of most variants.

 

Now the mid 90s junk to me was sad for the fact that it seemed Kenner created a lot of variants on purpose to just try and drive a secondary market on them.

 

It's easy to believe that, but I'm fairly certain they couldn't have cared less about the secondary ,market. If they had, they wouldn't have dug old molds and recast the vehicles which killed the prices on a lot of them. It also took away a huge segment of people that were collecting vintage specifically for their kids to play with.

 

Not to sound argumentative, but I think they did consider secondary market impacts as all the re-released toys had different COO markings, the figures were articulated differently and looked like they could do a cover shoot for the muscle and fitness mag.

 

I believe even the last hurrah rerelease of Luke, Han, Chewy and Vader that were done in the second phase of POTF (see 4-pack pictured above the MIB Vader TIE) had COO markings that distinguished it from the vintage line.

 

The ships and playsets were all recreated with greater detail, different colouring schemes, feature enhancements (i.e. lights and battle sounds). There is no way anyone, who spends even a minute comparing a vintage AT-AT or Millenium Falcon with a rereleased version, could ever mistake a rereleased version as vintage.

 

No, you misunderstand what I was saying.

Kenner/Mattel rereleased items so that they themselves could profit off of the people buying out of the secondary market. It wasn't that they were concerned about making variants and such FOR the secondary market, because secondary they don't make any money.

 

I had a lot of customers that were buying vintage toys specifically so their own children could play with them. Once the rereleases came out, there was no reason for someone to pay $300 on a boxed Falcon for their child when they could get a rereleased one (with new and improved features as you pointed out) for $50.

 

Kenner/Mattel didn't care about secondary market, but they sure killed it, at least for awhile.

 

Gotcha. (thumbs u

 

As a footnote, there's a great video on YouTube of a dated NJ news story covering the release of ROTJ at the theatres and toys in the store. My favourite part is when the reporter ask the 20-30 something guy why he is buying kids toys:

 

[comicwiz]

Going back 10 years, I can say with certainty the market for U.S carded Star Wars has not been softer (from it's high of 1998-2001). 12 backs have maintained a healthy market, but ESB, ROTJ and yes, even the once scarce and highly sought after POTF, have decreased steadily (as a general rule), over the past 3-4 years. Of course there are exceptions.

 

As Joe was mentioning, POTF clear bubbles still command high dollars, AFA or not. There are also some variations (cardbacks), that still command good money, such as certain figures with no offer opposed to having the offer, what particular back (for example, a Canadian 45 back Removable Limb 3PO is very rare, while the other Canadian 45 backs aren't that difficult to find if you put in the time).

 

As a gereral rule of thumb, try to avoid buy it nows on ebay, as there are alot of guys who were in big during the heydey, trying to get their money back (very similar to comics really). If you search for a certain figure, for example POTF Nikto, it will eventually come up (although very rare--good luck with a clear bubble). Be patient, I know several guys who were able to put together full runs of U.S carded figures over a period of a few years, and the prices are much lower now.

 

Lastly, just remember all those comics from the early 90's that aren't worth a nickel today (well, most of them anyways), and original ESB, and ROTJ figures had print runs very close to what those comics had. Of course most kids were buying the toys to play with them, while cases of comics were being hoarded. But Kenner produced ALOT of Star Wars toys. It was, and still is, the greatest selling action figure line of all time, and I still think they have a while to go before they hit the bottom. I was able to purchase 2 very large carded original collections last year, and it's getting better every year (more guys are getting out).

 

If anyone is thinking about getting started in the Canadian market I'd be happy to lend a hand. I too sold most of my personal collection just as the market was softening. But I still think about jumping back in with both feet because the prices are so much cheaper.

Jay

 

On the last point, I PM'd members GAtor and cgcworld often when I first considered approaching collecting SW toys. One of the things I kept hearing was that they got out before the market started to soften.

 

I think that worked as a motivator to jump in because I knew I could get things cheaper, and if I was patient enough, could probably buy up a lot of the production toys that I'd often found to be unattainable.

 

And the softening hasn't been a complete wash, as there certainly are hot spots on the production toys. I find what happened is a lot of the collecting interests matured and collectors started shifting their interests toward pre-production, unlicensed and rarer production toys (i.e. foreign lines, bootlegs, etc.). The majority still collect the stuff and buy the memories that brought them to the hobby in the first place, but their interests are divided.

 

And the home runs aren't found as often on eBay. I find the real thrill is in attic finds, and this requires doing a lot of legwork and answering ads.

 

Anyhow, glad you joined in Jason. Jason is a seasoned collector of SW stuff who really knows his stuff when it comes to this hobby. (thumbs u

[comicwiz]

Here's a photo of a display I've got:

 

 

Top shelf:

 

 

From left to right: Lily Ledy Jawa with removable hood; Stormtrooper, Biker Scout, Lili Ledy Removable Rocket Boba Fett, Yak Face, Yoda, Luke in Stormtrooper disguise, C-3PO, 2 Chewbacca's (one is the green crossbow version), and a Vinyl Cape Jawa.

 

Background: 12 Back A's of Darth Vader and Luke.

 

Foreground: Y-Fighter (die cast)

[Wally's Comics]

My favourite part is when the reporter ask the 20-30 something guy why he is buying kids toys

 

He was wise, but...

 

if that same collector making an investment was buying all the POTF figures

when no one else was buying them (the reason why the canceled the lot)...

 

He would be ranked among the genius.

 

 

 

 

[Wally's Comics]

That vinyl cape jawa is rare as hens teeth!

 

 

You got a blue snaggletooth?

 

 

 

 

[FrankCastle]

Hey Joe, thank you for the kind words

 

It was actually Jim's book about Canadian Star Wars collectables that got me hooked. Before that, I was all over the place, Palitoy, Kenner, tri-logo, whatever I could find. His book made an immediate impact, and I still like to leaf through it today as it's still stuffed with important info about Canadian vintage Star Wars!

 

As for your assessment on collectors shifting their interests toward pre-production, unlicensed and rarer production toys, I couldn't agree with you more! That's exactly what happened, especially the U.S collectors (when they realized how common the U.S regular production stuff actually was). Many of them now only collect Proofs or bootlegs, or other segments of the hobby. Which is part and parcel of why the market is so soft. They no longer buy the regular produced stuff, and enough collectors didn't come into the market when they went out. Hence, softer prices.

 

Alot of the problem too is how the new toys are so cool, people just don't have enough money for both so guys had to make a choice. Some of the sets they've come out with lately with multiple ships and figures, I wish those were out when I was a kid.

 

The whole thing really comes back to buy what you like, have a budget and think (REALLY think), of how you'd want to display your toys (I've had trouble with this for years). If you want boxed stuff, think of how it would be displayed compared to loose. There is a ton of stuff out there but don't do what I did and just have the stuff sitting in bins. That's a big part of the reason I got rid of them--out of sight, out of mind.

Jay

 

 

[hockey&comicsguy]

Great collection!

 

Before there were comic books or anything else in my life there was Star Wars. I've started and stopped collecting just about everything that ever interested me but I've always come back to vintage Star Wars.

 

I did the AFA 80 no "Y" designation. I did loose, complete. I did MOC with a no sticker or price tag rule. Eventually I finally settled in on exactly what made me happy.

 

I like nice presenting cards, probably akin to AFA 80-85. I prefer clear windows but will accept a slight tinge of yellowing. No bubble cracks or dents and no major creasing. Offers and price stickers are ok depending upon their size and location. Only ungraded. I guess I just still like running my fingers across the cards, like the feel of actually holding an old toy and not a plastic case (although AFA grading is pretty snazzy presentation-wise).

 

Another rule I now live by is no fugly cards. I don't care if I can get a decent figure for under $14 or $15 bucks. If the card is fugly, I simply move on. Quality, not quantity for me.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Would you guys be shocked to hear that I use to tear open POTF figures, clear bubble or not, because it was easier to sell it loose and mint and then sell the coin separate then it was to sell it in a card that was damaged?

 

I did that to probably 100's of them.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. Fugly cards are just that.

 

 

 

We had a great little shop here 10 minutes from my home called The Earth Toy Mall. It was the only vintage toy shop i'd ever seen. My wife introduced me to it when we in college dating and that's when I knew she was a keeper. They were credited in Sansweet's Tomart guide to World Wide SW Collectibles. Really nice people. They actually had the SW Hummer in their store for awhile. That and a 6 foot wide Falcon replica as well. They shut the shop down a few years ago but I remember going in there for hours just looking at old SW, MASK and GI JOE toys. They had everything else too but they specialized in SW. That was a great little shop.

[Gatsby77]

I'd heard that it was a chicken-and-the-egg thing with the POTF figures. On the one hand they weren't selling, but on the other Lucas lost the license so that they were actually _illegal_ to sell after a certain date.

 

Which was the reason my local Kiddie City dumped them in bargain bins for $.99 apiece. If only we'd known...

[dem1138]

I love this stuff but never considered collecting it seriously. About 20 years ago I bought a few loose figures in nice shape of the figures I had from my childhood that I knew I would always want. I will never know what it was like to buy an Action #1 off of the rack or an AF #15, but I have very fond memories of getting the letter in the mail from Kenner with my Boba Fett that it would not be rocket firing. I also remember opening many figures and playing with them and playing with these toys at my friends house. I also remember going to Kiddie City (put out of business by KB Toys many years ago) and seeing these toys all of the time - from the original Star Wars line through the recent editions.

When I started seeing these toys show up as collectibles in my teenagers years, it felt as strange to me then as it does to me now. It is so weird to see toys that I loved and played with so often as a child now in someones display case. I completely understand it on a rational level, but I'll never get it on visceral level.

However, I truly enjoy seeing these Star Wars toys whenever I get the chance.

 

I don't have a "my mom threw out my comic books" story, but I do have a "my mom sold my Darth Vader case filled with figures and their weapons for $20 at a garage sale" story.

 

I still have all of my matchbox cars though I haven't looked at those in many years.

[Gatsby77]

Yeah--and I remember fondly collecting the five proofs of purchase to get a free Emperor figure in the mail. "4-6 weeks" my . I took more like 9 weeks to finally receive it.

[comicwiz]

That vinyl cape jawa is rare as hens teeth!

 

 

You got a blue snaggletooth?

 

 

 

 

Let's just say he's one of the one's I hoarded. I found a beautiful C-9+ loose example about this time last year and that was it as far as buying any others. No rubs anywhere and the boots are outstanding.

 

At one time, I probably had about 10 but dwindled them down in the last year.

 

It is one of those hot and cold figures - one moment, no one wants it. The next moment, everybody is kicking your door down for one. My reason for hoarding it was that I thought it would make excellent trade bait, and it paid off as I ended-up doing really well on a few trades.

 

I'll start going through the carded and boxed stuff and posting them first chance I get.

[comicwiz]

 

I am currently thinking of eventually buying the following figures at the following costs. let me know if this is a good deal:

 

Hammerhead 21 A-Back AFA straight 85 $480

 

WalrusMan AFA straight 85-A back $480 (21 back)

 

12-back Luke Skywalker straight 85 $1750

 

Pricey I know, but I would love to know your thoughts to anyone who has knowledge in this area.

 

Thanks again, guys.

 

Straight grades do command a premium, especially for first 21 carded figures. Offer less 21-Backs are also a little more money, even though I personally prefer the Fett offer 21's. All said, AFA graded items tend to carry such an arbitrary price and valuation that it's hard to say whether these are high or low. What I can tell you is that buyers/dealers would pay nowhere near these prices, and that should tell you something about whether it is a sustainable valuation point should you ever need to resell.

 

My suggestion is to spend a month or two researching these specific items through eBay listings, classifieds (i.e. Craigslist), and online venue's where these items are sold. My hunch is that you could probably shave a few hundred off the 3 if you really scoured the net. The only down side to spending the time to research is that now is a usually a good time to buy, between the time people are usually hit with handling holiday bills/expenses, and tax return time, is when people are looking for disposable income and decide to sell unwanted stuff. In the case of Star Wars collectors, the opportunity might present itself for reasons of changing focus or just setting new life priorities.

[Rodey]

So there's a running joke in my family. When I younger, I asked for the Millennium Falcon. Of course, I didn't get it but I got some GI Joe stuff instead. Being a kid, I was upset. Every year, I now ask for the Millennium Falcon whenever someone asks me what I want.

 

So if you know a good deal on a completed one! Please complete my childhood.

 

Did anyone ever join the Star Wars Club? I remember joining and getting a card and a bunch of photos from the movie.

[mintcollector]

 

I am currently thinking of eventually buying the following figures at the following costs. let me know if this is a good deal:

 

Hammerhead 21 A-Back AFA straight 85 $480

 

WalrusMan AFA straight 85-A back $480 (21 back)

 

12-back Luke Skywalker straight 85 $1750

 

Pricey I know, but I would love to know your thoughts to anyone who has knowledge in this area.

 

Thanks again, guys.

 

Straight grades do command a premium, especially for first 21 carded figures. Offer less 21-Backs are also a little more money, even though I personally prefer the Fett offer 21's. All said, AFA graded items tend to carry such an arbitrary price and valuation that it's hard to say whether these are high or low. What I can tell you is that buyers/dealers would pay nowhere near these prices, and that should tell you something about whether it is a sustainable valuation point should you ever need to resell.

 

My suggestion is to spend a month or two researching these specific items through eBay listings, classifieds (i.e. Craigslist), and online venue's where these items are sold. My hunch is that you could probably shave a few hundred off the 3 if you really scoured the net. The only down side to spending the time to research is that now is a usually a good time to buy, between the time people are usually hit with handling holiday bills/expenses, and tax return time, is when people are looking for disposable income and decide to sell unwanted stuff. In the case of Star Wars collectors, the opportunity might present itself for reasons of changing focus or just setting new life priorities.

 

Thank you so much. Prices for these items are all over the map. Most delaers tend to work with me, as in a year's time I spend a lot on most items I buy. That being said I don't like to overpay and will not overpay in most instances were I can avoid it. At least with CGC graded comics, we have GPA to guide us. That being said, it is very hard to predict prices on these kind of items. I also noticed that there are a lot of variations from figure to figure; even AFA graded. What I mean by that is that you can find an AFA 85 with the figure perfectly placed in the bubble on the card. Then you can find another figure, where it is the same grade, but looks like someone shook that darn thing to the point the figure is on its side against the bubble of the card, with the accessory laying at the bottom.

 

I also noticed that reholdering these treasures is very expensive. I like the UV cases, but it can be costly with shipping involved.

 

Please pardon my horrid use of grammar, but I have been up for well over twenty four hours straight an counting...

 

Thanks again for your help!

[whisp]

So there's a running joke in my family. When I younger, I asked for the Millennium Falcon. Of course, I didn't get it but I got some GI Joe stuff instead. Being a kid, I was upset. Every year, I now ask for the Millennium Falcon whenever someone asks me what I want.

 

So if you know a good deal on a completed one! Please complete my childhood.

 

Did anyone ever join the Star Wars Club? I remember joining and getting a card and a bunch of photos from the movie.

 

I was the other way around. I got some Star Wars and while I liked Star Wars I wanted Joes.

 

This summer while selling off some toys for a person I know I had my hands on a complete Falcon in open box. Where it is now I have no idea since whatever I didn't sell got sold as a huge lot.