MAIL RIP-OFF

[pigman-migration]

I'm reporting that seller right now....

[CKB]

 

I'll never understand why these "hard" sellers fees cannot be passed on to the buyer. If the fact that this is happening is up front (it was not in the example cited, I realize), why is it such a concern? I cite an auction house "buyer's premium" as an example, or a Chinese restaraunt "cash discount".

 

Why can't the price of the item be "the price of the item" and not include the hard fees?

 

When we get into "soft" fees, I agree we are now talking about the cost of doing business, and it gets complicated. But the paypal and ebay fees are set, real, and come straight off the winning bid price (in the case of Paypal - ebay still sends a monthly invoice but I expect them to suck the listing and FV fees right out of Paypal payments sometime soon).

 

That sucks. You should NOT have to pay for their listing or paypal fees. I think you should forward that e-mail to Ebay. I hate profiteers.

 

BTW I would have waited for my refund before spouting off.

[DawgPhan]

I'll never understand why these "hard" sellers fees cannot be passed on to the buyer. If the fact that this is happening is up front (it was not in the example cited, I realize), why is it such a concern? I cite an auction house "buyer's premium" as an example, or a Chinese restaraunt "cash discount".

 

Why can't the price of the item be "the price of the item" and not include the hard fees?

 

When we get into "soft" fees, I agree we are now talking about the cost of doing business, and it gets complicated. But the paypal and ebay fees are set, real, and come straight off the winning bid price (in the case of Paypal - ebay still sends a monthly invoice but I expect them to suck the listing and FV fees right out of Paypal payments sometime soon).

 

That sucks. You should NOT have to pay for their listing or paypal fees. I think you should forward that e-mail to Ebay. I hate profiteers.

 

BTW I would have waited for my refund before spouting off.

 

Well the reason you cant do it for the ebay fees is because it is against ebay's rules. The reason you cant do it for the paypal fees is because it is illegal.. Your chinese place could have there right to take credit cards taken from them since they are breaking the agreement between themselves and the creditcard agencies as well as the law...the reason for the law is that credit card companies want nothing to discourage people from using credit cards. A "cash discount" encourages people to use cash thereby discouraging people to use a credit card...of course it is not a discount at all and is really the buisness passing on the credit card fees..I have no problem with something being included in the price of an item since I would just bid accordingly, but currently making buyer pay these "hard" fees is against the rules and in some cases illegal...

[lighthouse]

Actually cash discounts are perfectly legal... and are not a violation of merchant services contracts.

 

Two common things which ARE violations are surcharges and limits.

 

A merchant cannot tack on a percentage fee to use a credit card (which many do).

A merchant cannot set a minimum purchase requirement to use a card (which many more do).

 

Both of those are violations that can get your credit card accounts pulled. But cash discounts are acceptable.

[stynxno]

Actually cash discounts are perfectly legal... and are not a violation of merchant services contracts.

 

Two common things which ARE violations are surcharges and limits.

 

A merchant cannot tack on a percentage fee to use a credit card (which many do).

A merchant cannot set a minimum purchase requirement to use a card (which many more do).

 

Both of those are violations that can get your credit card accounts pulled. But cash discounts are acceptable.

 

you can't set a minimum purchase requirement to use a card? my lcs has a policy of $5 or higher to use a credit/debit card (i found that out when i went to buy one new comic and i left my cash at home). that's good information to know 'house. thanx :grin.

[OldGuy]

Actually cash discounts are perfectly legal... and are not a violation of merchant services contracts.

 

Two common things which ARE violations are surcharges and limits.

 

A merchant cannot tack on a percentage fee to use a credit card (which many do).

A merchant cannot set a minimum purchase requirement to use a card (which many more do).

 

Both of those are violations that can get your credit card accounts pulled. But cash discounts are acceptable.

 

you can't set a minimum purchase requirement to use a card? my lcs has a policy of $5 or higher to use a credit/debit card (i found that out when i went to buy one new comic and i left my cash at home). that's good information to know 'house. thanx :grin.

 

Yea, thanks House for helping to put another of your competitors out of business.

[lighthouse]

Actually cash discounts are perfectly legal... and are not a violation of merchant services contracts.

 

Two common things which ARE violations are surcharges and limits.

 

A merchant cannot tack on a percentage fee to use a credit card (which many do).

A merchant cannot set a minimum purchase requirement to use a card (which many more do).

 

Both of those are violations that can get your credit card accounts pulled. But cash discounts are acceptable.

 

you can't set a minimum purchase requirement to use a card? my lcs has a policy of $5 or higher to use a credit/debit card (i found that out when i went to buy one new comic and i left my cash at home). that's good information to know 'house. thanx :grin.

 

Link to the exact info...

 

Link also tells you what to do if it happens to you...

[DawgPhan]

Thanks I did not know that about the card minimums.. that is good to know...you are also right about the cash discount...how that differs from a surcharge is beyond me but whatever...seems like 6 of one, half dozen of the other...also a company cant offer a cash discount if they also offer interest free credit...Example would be that Best Buy offers that you can buy anything and pay no interest for 18 months on their new best buy card...they cannot then offer a cash discount since that would imlpy that there is indeed interest involved in the price of the item and nothing would actually be interest free...I guess they could offer a discount for using their credit card...which many companies do...who cares...it looks like you can do whatever you want, when ever you want...I know noone is ever going to stop that card minimum thing...thanks for the link though.

[Stronguy]

Isn't it illegal to charge the paypal fees to your customers? Something about not giving a cash discount and the credit card companies?

 

It's not illegal but it is usually stated in the merchant agreement you have to sign to accept credit cards -- PayPal included.

 

I had to sic the Master Card Gestapo on the cafeteria at one of our locations here at work. They had a sign clearly displayed stating a 5% charge would be added to all credit card transactions. I told the manager that he couldn't do that and he popped off with some rather rude comments.

 

Needless to say they don't charge 5% surcharge any more and the manager mysteriously disappeared around that time.

[tilleycs]

That sucks. You should NOT have to pay for their listing or paypal fees. I think you should forward that e-mail to Ebay. I hate profiteers.

 

I e-mailed an ebay seller recently asking about the high shipping charge, and they gave me the same line of BS (paying for their materials, listing fees, PayPal fees, etc.). They said they shouldn't have to lose money on shipping. I told them that's their right as a business, just like it's my right to not overpay for shipping (Needless to say, I have NOT bid on any of their auctions...and funny, I never got a response to that e-mail). I agree with whomever said that's the cost of doing business. Besides, if you buy/sell/trade a lot, chances are you have plenty of that stuff (and probably too much of it!) lying around, anyway.

 

I refuse to pay for anyone's materials/expenses, because where does it stop?? Do they want us to pay for their boxes, packing material, tape, pens used to write my address, gas money, maintenance on their car so they can keep going to the post office, gym membership fees so they can stay healthy and keep doing business, ISP fees so they can stay online, etc. It eventually gets ridiculous, but all you're doing is taking their line of thinking and taking it one step farther, then one step farther, etc.

[pigman-migration]

Now, I dont bid on high shipping auctions..I'm sure that "Item" will be on the auction block again.

 

If we get enough people to complain to these sellers, things can change in favor of the buyer.

[FFB]

Isn't it illegal to charge the paypal fees to your customers? Something about not giving a cash discount and the credit card companies?

 

It's not illegal but it is usually stated in the merchant agreement you have to sign to accept credit cards -- PayPal included.

 

I had to sic the Master Card Gestapo on the cafeteria at one of our locations here at work. They had a sign clearly displayed stating a 5% charge would be added to all credit card transactions. I told the manager that he couldn't do that and he popped off with some rather rude comments.

 

Needless to say they don't charge 5% surcharge any more and the manager mysteriously disappeared around that time.

 

Are you saying that you had him killed???

[Jeffreykli]

I agree that "Standard Mail" should not be Media Mail. I'd assume that Standard Mail is either First Class or Priority Mail, that's the way I ship everything. If it's only one or two comic books, packed between thick cardboard, it may not weigh enough to bump the shipping up to Priority Mail. Priority Mail costs more, and takes a day longer to deliver than First Class, which is why if given a choice, I go with First Class.

[lighthouse]

Isn't it illegal to charge the paypal fees to your customers? Something about not giving a cash discount and the credit card companies?

 

It's not illegal but it is usually stated in the merchant agreement you have to sign to accept credit cards -- PayPal included.

 

I had to sic the Master Card Gestapo on the cafeteria at one of our locations here at work. They had a sign clearly displayed stating a 5% charge would be added to all credit card transactions. I told the manager that he couldn't do that and he popped off with some rather rude comments.

 

Needless to say they don't charge 5% surcharge any more and the manager mysteriously disappeared around that time.

 

Are you saying that you had him killed???

 

Nah... if Stronguy didn't have me killed after I overgraded some of his books in a five-figure deal, I doubt the cafeteria manager was in much danger...

 

And before greggy gets all excited, I said five-FIGURE deal... not five-finger...

 

Although Stronguy could probably decapitate a man with his bare hands... perhaps the only thing that saved me was my head being so damn far off the ground...

[Zanarkand]

I refuse to pay for anyone's materials/expenses, because where does it stop?? Do they want us to pay for their boxes, packing material, tape, pens used to write my address, gas money, maintenance on their car so they can keep going to the post office, gym membership fees so they can stay healthy and keep doing business, ISP fees so they can stay online, etc. It eventually gets ridiculous, but all you're doing is taking their line of thinking and taking it one step farther, then one step farther, etc.

 

If the person is legitimately a business owner, then you do pay for all that stuff. You also pay for the food they eat, the clothes they wear, and the TP they wipe with. That's what it means to have your own business - the money they use to live and work comes from you, Mr. Customer.

 

When I sell comics, I fell it is perfectly legit to charge shipping + price of padded envelopes (if any). If I feel like it, I can round up just to give me a little wiggle room in case my postal scale is off. But I'm not in business.

 

A business owner does nothing for free. You can't and stay in business. A business owner must account for gas, time/labor, tape/peanuts/supplies, bags/boards, listing and Paypal fees, every little freaking thing. At the very least, those're business expenses and can be deductible, so if they are not tracked, it's the business's loss.

 

The only real issue is if the selling price has all that factored in, or do they hide those costs in shipping and "handling".

 

PS - about charging extra for Paypal (or any credit card) fees: it is illegal in 14 states (including mine, NY) to charge a customer an extra pencentage above the stated retail price if they pay with a credit card. Even if it isn't illegal in your state, it is an explicit violation of the merchant agreement a business must sign with Visa and Mastercard. If a business does this to you, turn them in. I have, it's fun. There's a kind of an urban legend among retailers that supposes this practice is ok if they clearly display a sign or something. It's not.

 

And as Lighthouse pointed out, it's a violation of your Paypal agreement. It is not, however, illegal or against any rules to offer customers a discount under the stated retail price if the do not use a credit card.

[Zanarkand]

It is not, however, illegal or against any rules to offer customers a discount under the stated retail price if the do not use a credit card.

 

To be perfectly blunt:

 

Bad - Pricing a comic at $10, but jacking it 5% to $10.50 when the buyer presents a credit card for payment.

 

Ok - Pricing a comic at $10.50 in the first place, then discounting it 5% (about) to $10 when the buyer pay cash.

[Steve_HOCP]

If the person is legitimately a business owner, then you do pay for all that stuff. You also pay for the food they eat, the clothes they wear, and the TP they wipe with. That's what it means to have your own business - the money they use to live and work comes from you, Mr. Customer.

 

When I sell comics, I fell it is perfectly legit to charge shipping + price of padded envelopes (if any). If I feel like it, I can round up just to give me a little wiggle room in case my postal scale is off. But I'm not in business.

 

Ummmm, as any business owner knows, all that stuff is paid for out of the PROFIT YOU MAKE FROM THE SALE!!! If you are not profitable enough to pay your expenses out of the sales profits, you need to find another "business" to be in.

 

The problem is THIS:

 

Ebay is an auction site ( not a business ) where you are not guaranteed a final sale price, so people do SCARELESS like sell you a comic for $8.00 and then charge you $10.00 S&H...the comic arrives in a $1.42 media mail envelope beat to hell. Anyone who says this HASN'T happened to them is lying out their @ss.

 

If you tried to run a business that way you'd have no customers. If your operating cost is $0.60 on every item sold in the store, then charge me $1.99 on the STICKER PRICE for a $1.39 can of soup. I know it might be higher than other stores (who presumably have operating costs added on to that same can of soup) but I like this store and I enjoy the customer service and atmosphere...I don't feel like they are "grubbing" my money.

 

by the same token......don't put a price of $1.39 on that can of soup on the shelf and then tell me some bvll at the register that you are tacking on $0.60 for "operating costs"...I'll sock you in the mouth.

 

People like that irk me to no end...

 

I am a business owner...not comics and certainly not on eBay...but that is the way business is done.

[Zanarkand]

If the person is legitimately a business owner, then you do pay for all that stuff. You also pay for the food they eat, the clothes they wear, and the TP they wipe with. That's what it means to have your own business - the money they use to live and work comes from you, Mr. Customer.

 

When I sell comics, I fell it is perfectly legit to charge shipping + price of padded envelopes (if any). If I feel like it, I can round up just to give me a little wiggle room in case my postal scale is off. But I'm not in business.

 

Ummmm, as any business owner knows, all that stuff is paid for out of the PROFIT YOU MAKE FROM THE SALE!!! If you are not profitable enough to pay your expenses out of the sales profits, you need to find another "business" to be in.

 

It would truly be an extraordinary marketplace if that were true, if fixed costs included production/acquisition costs only, and businesses just had to eat any other expenses. But the reality is that businesses pass on such expenses to the customer, as much as they can get away with in a competitive market. It is built into the sale price.

 

That's the only real rub here. Is the seller jacking you for extra dough, or is he charging you legitimately? Clearly he is charging you legitimately, but perhaps his accounting skills need work. His Paypal/Ebay fees, cost of postage supplies, etc. are not part of "postage". He could honestly term them "handling", which a lot of businesses do, but on Ebay charging handling fees aggravates people. Really, he should just add a measly amount to each sale price and have it work out in the aggregate.

[Steve_HOCP]

It would truly be an extraordinary marketplace if that were true, if fixed costs included production/acquisition costs only, and businesses just had to eat any other expenses. But the reality is that businesses pass on such expenses to the customer, as much as they can get away with in a competitive market. It is built into the sale price.

 

I just said that

 

That's the only real rub here. Is the seller jacking you for extra dough, or is he charging you legitimately? Clearly he is charging you legitimately, but perhaps his accounting skills need work. His Paypal/Ebay fees, cost of postage supplies, etc. are not part of "postage". He could honestly term them "handling", which a lot of businesses do, but on Ebay charging handling fees aggravates people. Really, he should just add a measly amount to each sale price and have it work out in the aggregate.

 

Again, that is exactly what I said.

 

All GOOD salesman know that basically people just want to feel good about themselves and their purchase.

 

EXAMPLE:

 

You can give me a great deal, free shipping & handling etc., but make me feel like a piece of cr*p over the deal or make it a huge hassle to buy from you...suddenly, it isn't a very good deal anymore. I can do without those types of deals.

 

on the other hand

 

You can sell me a comic for $3 - $5 more than I normally would have paid but make it a painless deal, handle the shipping and handling yourself and generally make me feel good about the deal...I'd buy from you every time.

 

When the end price of the comic (or product) is going to be the same

 

$15 product with no shipping & handling

 

$8 product with $2 shipping & $5 handling

 

both cost $15, which makes you feel better? Which was a "better deal" to you? Who would you buy from again? Which deal made you feel like the seller was a money grubber?

 

Oh well, it only hurts bad sellers...and we can all do without them.