When is restoration not considered restoration? (color touch, glue)

[FFB]

You and I are saying the same thing. Let's say the book was unrestored 9.2. A dot of glue is applied on a bindery tear that would make the book appear to be 9.4. Book gets a blue label 9.0.

 

My understanding is that if the CT/glue is minimal enough to keep the book in a blue label it actually lowers the grade by one grade point because it's counted as a defect rather than restoration.

 

I owned a Marvel Mystery #5 with a touch of CT on the top right corner but the book was in a blue label (it was actually arguable that it was colour touch as the book came from an OO collection and there was no reason to CT the book in that area). My understanding was that if someone simply "clipped" the CT on the top right corner, the book would have improved from a 4.0 to a 4.5 blue label with no notations. To me the grading rule didn't make sense, but it was what it was.

 

 

Sort of.

 

If the book was otherwise a 9.2 and the glue was on the cover but not on the bindery tear the book would grade a 9.0 because the glue would be counted as a defect dropping the grade.

 

If the book was otherwise a 9.2 and the glue was on the bindery tear, but the glued bindery tear didn't increase the technical grade, the book would grade a 9.0 because the glue would be counted as a defect dropping the grade.

 

If the book was a 9.2 and the glue was on the bindery tear and it increased the grade, the book would go into a purple holder with the increased apparent grade (9.4 in this case).

 

I think that's how it was explained to me.

 

Everything but the last one is correct. CGC still put some books in blue slabs when the CT or glue raised the apparent grade by .2. But they do not put the books in a blue slab if it raises it .4 or more, and even with a .2 increase, there is complete discretion on the part of CGC to put the book in a PLOD if they think it crosses whatever the actual line is.

[VintageComics]

Everything but the last one is correct. CGC still put some books in blue slabs when the CT or glue raised the apparent grade by .2. But they do not put the books in a blue slab if it raises it .4 or more, and even with a .2 increase, there is complete discretion on the part of CGC to put the book in a PLOD if they think it crosses whatever the actual line is.

 

Is that just your opinion?

 

I've not ever heard that.

 

 

 

 

[FFB]

Everything but the last one is correct. CGC still put some books in blue slabs when the CT or glue raised the apparent grade by .2. But they do not put the books in a blue slab if it raises it .4 or more, and even with a .2 increase, there is complete discretion on the part of CGC to put the book in a PLOD if they think it crosses whatever the actual line is.

 

Is that just your opinion?

 

I've not ever heard that.

 

 

 

 

That's my recollection of how Steve Borock explained it to me back in 2006.

 

The key to the PLOD isn't whether the apparent grade changes - it's how much CT or glue is on the book. You can have an unrestored 9.2/9.4 "tweener" book that has a dot of CT applied that makes it a borderline App. 9.4, and the book can still get a blue label, with the CT being considered a defect and deducting for it so that the book is blue 9.0 instead of PLOD App. 9.4.

 

Or you can have a weak 9.2 that has a bigger dot of CT applied and it is still a 9.2 but it gets a PLOD because the dot is bigger.

 

Or you can have a 5.0 that has a tiny dot of glue on the spine and it does not change the apparent grade at all and it gets a blue label 5.0. But if you add a few dots of CT over and around the glue, you get a PLOD App. 5.0 even though the book's apparent grade hasn't changed.

 

Remember, not every book with minimal restoration is a 9.0+.

 

The focus isn't on the change in grade so much as it is the amount of restoration present.

[VintageComics]

That makes sense. I hadn't even considered posting about a large amount of CT or glue because I simply assumed it would get a purple label at that point. Gotcha.

 

 

[vaillant]

Or you can have a 5.0 that has a tiny dot of glue on the spine and it does not change the apparent grade at all and it gets a blue label 5.0. […]

The focus isn't on the change in grade so much as it is the amount of restoration present.

Oh, you made my day. I just received a long-awaited book which I treasure, and I’ve inadvertently half-torn the paper (back cover) around the upper staple while handling it, so I had to fix it with a little glue, and I was so saddened…

This restoration thing paranoia has been getting under my skin since I started with golden age books. For an italian collector is something really weird.

 

 

You can't remember what you wrote?

Gotta love your daily dose of Roy…

[FFB]

Or you can have a 5.0 that has a tiny dot of glue on the spine and it does not change the apparent grade at all and it gets a blue label 5.0. […]

The focus isn't on the change in grade so much as it is the amount of restoration present.

Oh, you made my day. I just received a long-awaited book which I treasure, and I’ve inadvertently half-torn the paper (back cover) around the upper staple while handling it, so I had to fix it with a little glue, and I was so saddened…

This restoration thing paranoia has been getting under my skin since I started with golden age books. For an italian collector is something really weird.

 

 

You can't remember what you wrote?

Gotta love your daily dose of Roy…

 

Chances are if you did something on your own, it is going to get tagged with the Amateur Restored label regardless of how little or how much you did. Only professional restoration will be considered for the blue label, and then only the tiniest amount of it.

[vaillant]

Chances are if you did something on your own, it is going to get tagged with the Amateur Restored label regardless of how little or how much you did. Only professional restoration will be considered for the blue label, and then only the tiniest amount of it.

 

Well, I have no intention to submit it whatsoever. Besides, it used to be a blue label CGC VG (broken out of case), I doubt it would rank lower because I added an almost invisible amount of glue to fix a tear, I think it’s unnoticeable.

They give blue labels to slightly professional restoration and allow plastic tape instead of minor glue? It’s quite nonsensical to me: both aren’t "restoration", and tape is definitely "amateur", in the sense it damages the comic in the long term.

[FFB]

Chances are if you did something on your own, it is going to get tagged with the Amateur Restored label regardless of how little or how much you did. Only professional restoration will be considered for the blue label, and then only the tiniest amount of it.

 

Well, I have no intention to submit it whatsoever. Besides, it used to be a blue label CGC VG (broken out of case), I doubt it would rank lower because I added an almost invisible amount of glue to fix a tear, I think it’s unnoticeable.

They give blue labels to slightly professional restoration and allow plastic tape instead of minor glue? It’s quite nonsensical to me: both aren’t "restoration", and tape is definitely "amateur", in the sense it damages the comic in the long term.

 

Yes, but CGC downgrades for the tape.

 

If you want to seal the tear, get some low tack archival tape to hold the tear together and cut a thin strip with a razor blade to fit the tear. Then you can always remove it later if you want to, while still getting the added support that the tape gives you.

[vaillant]

Hi FFB, thanks for the reply.

 

I usually use archival tape (Filmoplast P), very moderately (always used it with italian comics, before getting infected by this "all-american virus" about restoration).

 

This time, however, I felt better by simply recomposing the torn part (less than 1/2" anyway) around the staple using Pritt glue, which does not damage like superglue or other specific purpose glues (I also think it can be removed with water), because Filmoplast P can get dark and not easy to remove, just in case.

Do you have other brands of archival tape to suggest me?

[FFB]

Hi FFB, thanks for the reply.

 

I usually use archival tape (Filmoplast P), very moderately (always used it with italian comics, before getting infected by this "all-american virus" about restoration).

 

This time, however, I felt better by simply recomposing the torn part (less than 1/2" anyway) around the staple using Pritt glue, which does not damage like superglue or other specific purpose glues (I also think it can be removed with water), because Filmoplast P can get dark and not easy to remove, just in case.

Do you have other brands of archival tape to suggest me?

 

I don't know what Pritt Glue consists of so I can't comment on it.

 

I know that Reversible PVA is a water-reversible glue used by paper conservators.

 

Lineco makes an archival tape that is well regarded. I have never used it before so I can't comment on how it looks or how it performs. It does not seem to have the same horrid reputation among conservators as Filmoplast does. (They refer to it as the "F-word.")

[vaillant]

@FFB: Many thanks for the Lineco advice, I’ll try it.

In fact, I wasn’t aware of Filmoplast reputation as I started using it.

 

Pritt is not a professional glue, but it’s a paper-aimed glue (not liquid, it’s in stick), and doesn’t seem to be "aggressive" as most glues. Although it’s not a "professional" glue I think it has no acids at all.

[c-mack]

i submitted a Low grade book with some glue and tape on the spine thinking since nether was placed to improve the grade i would get a 2.0 blue came back 2.0 purple ..I really thought since nether glue or tape made this book nicer t i was in the clear but then again what do i know

[FFB]

Glue is going to get you a PLOD in almost every circumstance.

[c-mack]

but i see sooo many blue lable with glue on the spine..but its ok love the boon none the less

[vaillant]

My Fantastic Four #3 (Blue Label) has tape within the front cover, graded 3.0 and looks like a 3.5-4.0.

 

Glue, well, I guess it depends on how much, and how much detectable, it’s clear that if it is evident it’s unconvenient as much as tape, and they consider it "restoration".

But I guess they have no rigid scheme on this, and also depends on who grades. Don’t know…