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I'm sure this thread exists somewhere.....

Started by jjfversion1,

111 posts in this topic

VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

But I wonder if a "villain" key can ever rival a "hero" key? (shrug)

 

That's pretty much it.

 

Thanos and Dr. Doom are two of the greatest villains in the Marvel universe but it's rare for a villain to rival a hero.

 

Wolverine has his "rage" inside and that is the villain trapped within the hero...maybe that's part of the appeal.

 

I know Venom comes very close. Insanely popular character that's kept his popularity over the years.

 

 

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted

But I wonder if a "villain" key can ever rival a "hero" key? (shrug)

 

That's pretty much it.

 

Thanos and Dr. Doom are two of the greatest villains in the Marvel universe but it's rare for a villain to rival a hero.

 

Wolverine has his "rage" inside and that is the villain trapped within the hero...maybe that's part of the appeal.

 

I know Venom comes very close. Insanely popular character that's kept his popularity over the years.

 

 

Punisher would have fit the bill if not for the fact that he became a good guy.

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Ditch Fahrenheit

Ditch Fahrenheit

Posted
Posted

But I wonder if a "villain" key can ever rival a "hero" key? (shrug)

 

That's pretty much it.

 

Thanos and Dr. Doom are two of the greatest villains in the Marvel universe but it's rare for a villain to rival a hero.

 

Wolverine has his "rage" inside and that is the villain trapped within the hero...maybe that's part of the appeal.

 

I know Venom comes very close. Insanely popular character that's kept his popularity over the years.

 

 

Wolverine has his "rage" inside and that is the villain trapped within the hero...maybe that's part of the appeal.

 

Exactly. That's what has always made Bats more intriguing to me than Supes. It makes for a more complex character.

 

Conversely, I think that's also why the "Vampire" has currently been on the rise in popular culture - Anne Rice novels/movies, Twilight, True Blood, Vampire Diaries, etc. The hero within the villain struggling for dominance leading to moral conflict. Add sexual tension and you have a formula that's very popular - especially with women, who are attracted to the bad guy and want to reform him (especially if he's sexually attractive :) ).

 

I believe the complexities of moral conflict are also at the core of TWD popularity.

 

It's difficult to see how a villain would rival a hero in popularity (key comic or otherwise), but if it happened, I think it would be a highly conflicted and complex villain, one whom we haven't seen in comic books yet.

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Ryan.

Ryan.

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Posted

Do people really think that the first appearance of Thanos is going to be the absolute must-own key of its time? Thanos?? Great villian, associated with a hot property, but...Thanos? No.

 

Incidentally, I am beginning a mission to have Albedo 2 supplant TMNT 1 as the primo Copper key.

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DeliBebek

DeliBebek

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Posted
Nope.

 

Wolverine is unquestionably the biggest draw of the Marvel bronze age...he's more popular than almost any other character out there.

 

Thanos is ultra cool but not even close.

 

Comparing ages, does "The Walking Dead" have a single character who is the draw for the series? I think it qualifies as a key in respect to popularity and recognizability, but it's so different from the others because it doesn't introduce an instantly recognizable and marketable character (or characters who are visually almost identical as TMNT) unless you count the zombie look.

 

Also, agreed on the Thanos/Wolverine contest. Between the covers, Thanos wins, but on the outside, Wolverine is the Bronze Age poster child.

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miraclemet

miraclemet

Posted
Posted
Most people seem to be agreeing that its the effect a Key has on the comic industry and its respective collectors that is important - so with the Modern examples we have ie USM #1 or WD #1, which one is deemed THE key?

 

WD is the comic of the moment with the TV show and buzz, but will it out live USM #1 in terms of comic importance?

 

I always wonder what happens when the Ultimate universe's plug is finally pulled.... 20 years later is it just a quaint pocket universe that was not the 616 continuity? Is it a better implemented version of the "heroes reborn" idea or just another thing that gets lots to the ages cause it wasnt 616?

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DeliBebek

DeliBebek

Posted
Posted
My entire youth, SC4 was KING over AF15, now its practically forgotten. Things do change. I'm not saying they will but if Thanos does end up being the major villain in the next, Thanos is gonna shoot way up the list for what people are asking for at cons.

The Showcase/Amazing Fantasy comparison really illustrates that what defines the key isn't the internal effects on the industry but the external recognition of the character through other media and merchandising.

 

I've had old-timers tell me that Superman first apeared in newspaper comic strips. Probably a lot of people first encountered him in the Fleisher cartoons and the radio shows. Ultimately, the comic book hero changed to adopt qualities from all the interpretations, an effect which we see a lot in the wake of popular super-hero movies today.

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maloney414

maloney414

Posted
Posted

GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

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sakaridis

sakaridis

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

I pretty much agree with all that, but there are people out there who would consider Bone #1 to be Copper and not modern. (shrug)

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ComicConnoisseur

ComicConnoisseur

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

More people have watched Walking Dead then read Bone. Bone is a great book, but Walking Dead is at a Lost iconic popularity status now.

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maloney414

maloney414

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

More people have watched Walking Dead then read Bone. Bone is a great book, but Walking Dead is at a Lost iconic popularity status now.

 

I don't know about your 1st sentence. It's tough to measure Bone's readership. A lot of kids are reading it in their school libraries for free. So you can't just go by TPB sales either.

 

The WD season 2 finale did pull some crazy ratings. Plus, seasons 3 & 4 are going to pull the best source material from the comics. So who knows in the future? hm

 

But I still don't think WD #1 beats Bone #1. At least not yet.

 

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maloney414

maloney414

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

I pretty much agree with all that, but there are people out there who would consider Bone #1 to be Copper and not modern. (shrug)

 

It's definitely borderline. Bone #1 came out in 1991.

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dupont2005

dupont2005

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

I pretty much agree with all that, but there are people out there who would consider Bone #1 to be Copper and not modern. (shrug)

 

It's definitely borderline. Bone #1 came out in 1991.

Yeah could go either way. I'd consider it a modern but I think a lot of people would say its copper.
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ComicConnoisseur

ComicConnoisseur

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

More people have watched Walking Dead then read Bone. Bone is a great book, but Walking Dead is at a Lost iconic popularity status now.

 

I don't know about your 1st sentence. It's tough to measure Bone's readership. A lot of kids are reading it in their school libraries for free. So you can't just go by TPB sales either.

 

The WD season 2 finale did pull some crazy ratings. Plus, seasons 3 & 4 are going to pull the best source material from the comics. So who knows in the future? hm

 

But I still don't think WD #1 beats Bone #1. At least not yet.

I will even go farther then that and say not only does WD #1 beat Bone #1 but it has surpassed TMNT #1 and on the verge of passing Incredible Hulk #181.

Why?

Two different thoughts for each book.

Why Walking Dead #1 beats TMNT #1 is obvious is it is much hotter than TMNT ever was. We can be as nostalgic all we want for the 1980s, but TMNT was never as popular as the Walking Dead is right now.

 

Why Walking Dead #1 beats Incredible Hulk #181 is because of the supply and demand factor. Not only does Walking Dead #1 have a higher demand than Incredible Hulk #181, but even if the demand fell the one thing that makes Walking Dead #1 a better bet in the long run than Incredible Hulk #181 is the supply. Walking Dead #1 has a much lower print run than Incredible Hulk #181. :)

btw I like TMNT and Wolverine just like Walking Dead, and I have love for all three comics. :cloud9:

Just stating my business opinion about the three. :whistle:

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chrisco37

chrisco37

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Posted
I will even go farther then that and say not only does WD #1 beat Bone #1 but it has surpassed TMNT #1 and on the verge of passing Incredible Hulk #181.

Why?

Two different thoughts for each book.

Why Walking Dead #1 beats TMNT #1 is obvious is it is much hotter than TMNT ever was. We can be as nostalgic all we want for the 1980s, but TMNT was never as popular as the Walking Dead is right now.

 

Why Walking Dead #1 beats Incredible Hulk #181 is because of the supply and demand factor. Not only does Walking Dead #1 have a higher demand than Incredible Hulk #181, but even if the demand fell the one thing that makes Walking Dead #1 a better bet in the long run than Incredible Hulk #181 is the supply. Walking Dead #1 has a much lower print run than Incredible Hulk #181. :)

btw I like TMNT and Wolverine just like Walking Dead, and I have love for all three comics. :cloud9:

Just stating my business opinion about the three. :whistle:

 

Walking Dead will NEVER be as popular as Wolverine. How many kids know who Wolverine is? How many know what the Walking Dead is?

 

What if Season 3 of TWD stinks? What about when Kirkman decides he's written enough? When that series ends, that will be the end of it.

 

Roy said it near the beginning of the thread, Wolverine has 30+ years history. Walking Dead has 2 television seasons. How long do you think the TV series will go on? 3-4 more seasons? It's not going to be like the Simpsons and go on indefinitely.

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DeliBebek

DeliBebek

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

More people have watched Walking Dead then read Bone. Bone is a great book, but Walking Dead is at a Lost iconic popularity status now.

 

I don't know about your 1st sentence. It's tough to measure Bone's readership. A lot of kids are reading it in their school libraries for free. So you can't just go by TPB sales either.

 

The WD season 2 finale did pull some crazy ratings. Plus, seasons 3 & 4 are going to pull the best source material from the comics. So who knows in the future? hm

 

But I still don't think WD #1 beats Bone #1. At least not yet.

I will even go farther then that and say not only does WD #1 beat Bone #1 but it has surpassed TMNT #1 and on the verge of passing Incredible Hulk #181.

Why?

Two different thoughts for each book.

Why Walking Dead #1 beats TMNT #1 is obvious is it is much hotter than TMNT ever was. We can be as nostalgic all we want for the 1980s, but TMNT was never as popular as the Walking Dead is right now.

 

Why Walking Dead #1 beats Incredible Hulk #181 is because of the supply and demand factor. Not only does Walking Dead #1 have a higher demand than Incredible Hulk #181, but even if the demand fell the one thing that makes Walking Dead #1 a better bet in the long run than Incredible Hulk #181 is the supply. Walking Dead #1 has a much lower print run than Incredible Hulk #181. :)

btw I like TMNT and Wolverine just like Walking Dead, and I have love for all three comics. :cloud9:

Just stating my business opinion about the three. :whistle:

Ninja Turtles each had their own Pez dispensers. Yes, each one, color coded like the cartoon. Walking Dead? No Pez dispenser.

 

We each have our own yardstick. :)

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Ryan.

Ryan.

Posted
Posted
GA - Action #1

SA - AF #15

BA - Hulk #181

CA - TMNT #1

MA - BONE #1

 

Bone #1 in CGC 9.8 is more expensive than WD 1.

 

Bone has kids currently reading it in school libraries so it's fan base is still growing. It's very popular, but tough to measure. Plus, the creator Jeff Smith wants to do a movie as well. When that happens...BOOM goes the dynamite and more speculators will take notice. lol

 

Walking Dead is certainly hot now, but WD #1 hasn't surpassed Bone 1 yet. 2c

More people have watched Walking Dead then read Bone. Bone is a great book, but Walking Dead is at a Lost iconic popularity status now.

 

I don't know about your 1st sentence. It's tough to measure Bone's readership. A lot of kids are reading it in their school libraries for free. So you can't just go by TPB sales either.

 

The WD season 2 finale did pull some crazy ratings. Plus, seasons 3 & 4 are going to pull the best source material from the comics. So who knows in the future? hm

 

But I still don't think WD #1 beats Bone #1. At least not yet.

I will even go farther then that and say not only does WD #1 beat Bone #1 but it has surpassed TMNT #1 and on the verge of passing Incredible Hulk #181.

Why?

Two different thoughts for each book.

Why Walking Dead #1 beats TMNT #1 is obvious is it is much hotter than TMNT ever was. We can be as nostalgic all we want for the 1980s, but TMNT was never as popular as the Walking Dead is right now.

 

Why Walking Dead #1 beats Incredible Hulk #181 is because of the supply and demand factor. Not only does Walking Dead #1 have a higher demand than Incredible Hulk #181, but even if the demand fell the one thing that makes Walking Dead #1 a better bet in the long run than Incredible Hulk #181 is the supply. Walking Dead #1 has a much lower print run than Incredible Hulk #181. :)

btw I like TMNT and Wolverine just like Walking Dead, and I have love for all three comics. :cloud9:

Just stating my business opinion about the three. :whistle:

Ninja Turtles each had their own Pez dispensers. Yes, each one, color coded like the cartoon. Walking Dead? No Pez dispenser.

 

We each have our own yardstick. :)

 

TMNT had the run of movies, the cartoon, the video games, the action figures, the comics, the t-shirts, the skateboards, the etc., etc. Sure, Walking Dead is WAY more popular than TMNT ever was. Sounds like a case of recency is infecting this place hard.

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ComicConnoisseur

ComicConnoisseur

Posted
Posted
I will even go farther then that and say not only does WD #1 beat Bone #1 but it has surpassed TMNT #1 and on the verge of passing Incredible Hulk #181.

Why?

Two different thoughts for each book.

Why Walking Dead #1 beats TMNT #1 is obvious is it is much hotter than TMNT ever was. We can be as nostalgic all we want for the 1980s, but TMNT was never as popular as the Walking Dead is right now.

 

Why Walking Dead #1 beats Incredible Hulk #181 is because of the supply and demand factor. Not only does Walking Dead #1 have a higher demand than Incredible Hulk #181, but even if the demand fell the one thing that makes Walking Dead #1 a better bet in the long run than Incredible Hulk #181 is the supply. Walking Dead #1 has a much lower print run than Incredible Hulk #181. :)

btw I like TMNT and Wolverine just like Walking Dead, and I have love for all three comics. :cloud9:

Just stating my business opinion about the three. :whistle:

 

Walking Dead will NEVER be as popular as Wolverine. How many kids know who Wolverine is? How many know what the Walking Dead is?

 

What if Season 3 of TWD stinks? What about when Kirkman decides he's written enough? When that series ends, that will be the end of it.

 

Roy said it near the beginning of the thread, Wolverine has 30+ years history. Walking Dead has 2 television seasons. How long do you think the TV series will go on? 3-4 more seasons? It's not going to be like the Simpsons and go on indefinitely.

I could say that most kids don`t read comic books anymore and that its the adults who drive the comic book market to make my Walking Dead argument stronger :grin:

 

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