Northstar marriage story on NBC 4 (Los Angeles) News

[krighton]

after reading millions of threads on various forums, i have noticed, when a post uses the word 'fiction' in regards to 'religion' the discussion tends to go rapidly downhill.

[Speedy-D]

I'll probably get in trouble for this, but there is always a double standard when it comes to issues like this. There are issues that have opposite sides of the spectrum where one side is allowed and the other isn't. The worst part of it, in my opinion, is that it is put into public and it is said if you don't like it you are a hater. I.e., the opposite of of homosexuality is basically Christianity. If Christianity was given as much attention in comic books as homosexuality then people would be rioting in the streets claiming that it is being shoved down their throats.

 

I'm not trying to make a religious point here. I'm trying to say that people are fighting to keep religion out of places saying that it offends them, but are allowing things like homosexuality into just about everything and if people don't like it they are homophobes, haters, or whatever. I will never come here and express what my belief of this subject is. I just think that this issue is being used to sell comic books. Just as politicians who will support homosexuality and gay marriage for votes.

 

Dude, we just had a blow out on this very topic. Please let it go. The thread was pulled and the hatingest of the haters got a vacation.

[miraclemet]

If Christianity was given as much attention....

 

 

I'm gonna just ignore everything else you posted since it heads in the direction of a lovely discussion that led to thread locking and a suspension earlier this week...

 

but here's the COMIC related topic...

 

We know many of our superheroes were created by writers and artists of Jewish heritage/faith.

 

We also know that in so far as the big two (Marvel/DC) the publishers want their characters have the largest mass appeal so they typically shy away from decisive religious or political labeling (especially with their main characters)

 

What are the more openly religious characters in the big two?

 

Nightcrawler is very much Catholic

Daredevil might be Catholic too though I cant think of where he explicitly said it.

The Thing was designed to be Jewish, but he's morphed to Catholic at some point (seems writers like the "confessional" as a plot device) or maybe he's Jewish again.

Kitty Pride is Jewish (remember when she burned Dracula with a star of david?)

Jim Corrigan (Spectre) was raised Christian, lost and regained his faith before dying.

Colossal Boy of the Legion was portrayed as Jewish (got married in a Jewish ceremony and his family wondered if the kids would be raised Jewish).

Wolfsbane (New Mutants) was a Presbyterian.

 

what other superheroes have expressed some sort of religious faith/leaning?

 

(see how I brought a thread in Comic General back to comics?)

[AUChief]

No offense, but I don't understand the big hubbub, Bub.

 

The majority opinion in the previous thread about a DC character coming out was that all this stuff is a reflection of mainstream thought. Yet, here we have press releases and news coverage about something people say is mainstream and normal. Seems to me it shouldn't be a big deal if the majority opinion thinks this subject matter is appropriate for comics that children might read.

 

So which is it? Mainstream and no big deal because it just reflects society? Or a big deal that begs to have press releases and news coverage? If it was considered mainstream and most parents couldn't care less there wouldn't be any media spotlight, right?

 

This is my problem with it (and with all the Peter David self-back-patting a few years back), They are using this to sell comics. If you realize this and are OK with it then great. If you think that the Big 2 are doing this to further any sort of GLBT rights agenda, then you are being seriously mislead. It bothers me that both companies make such a huge deal about it.

 

On the other hand, the big press releases and fanfare are a form of CYOA by both companies. If you try to slide it in there and "sneak" it past parents, then you are asking for even more trouble.

 

At the end of the day, thinking either of these companies actually care about the GLBT community is like thinking Disney wants you to save money when you visit their theme parks with their "deals".

 

 

[Speedy-D]

No offense, but I don't understand the big hubbub, Bub.

 

The majority opinion in the previous thread about a DC character coming out was that all this stuff is a reflection of mainstream thought. Yet, here we have press releases and news coverage about something people say is mainstream and normal. Seems to me it shouldn't be a big deal if the majority opinion thinks this subject matter is appropriate for comics that children might read.

 

So which is it? Mainstream and no big deal because it just reflects society? Or a big deal that begs to have press releases and news coverage? If it was considered mainstream and most parents couldn't care less there wouldn't be any media spotlight, right?

It's all a reflection of the changes in and evolution of mainstream thought. As such, it's exciting to see every new little step in the right direction.

 

This is totally separate from DC's attempts to hype the step. They're a business, and they'll try to get as much play out of every move they make as they can.

[Speedy-D]

No offense, but I don't understand the big hubbub, Bub.

 

The majority opinion in the previous thread about a DC character coming out was that all this stuff is a reflection of mainstream thought. Yet, here we have press releases and news coverage about something people say is mainstream and normal. Seems to me it shouldn't be a big deal if the majority opinion thinks this subject matter is appropriate for comics that children might read.

 

So which is it? Mainstream and no big deal because it just reflects society? Or a big deal that begs to have press releases and news coverage? If it was considered mainstream and most parents couldn't care less there wouldn't be any media spotlight, right?

 

This is my problem with it (and with all the Peter David self-back-patting a few years back), They are using this to sell comics. If you realize this and are OK with it then great. If you think that the Big 2 are doing this to further any sort of GLBT rights agenda, then you are being seriously mislead. It bothers me that both companies make such a huge deal about it.

 

On the other hand, the big press releases and fanfare are a form of CYOA by both companies. If you try to slide it in there and "sneak" it past parents, then you are asking for even more trouble.

 

At the end of the day, thinking either of these companies actually care about the GLBT community is like thinking Disney wants you to save money when you visit their theme parks with their "deals".

 

Sure, companies can be compassionate sometimes. You think Marvel's latest "stunt," The Blue Ear, is just a coldly calculated move? I think it was a genuinely good thing to do.

[AUChief]

It's all a reflection of the changes in and evolution of mainstream thought. As such, it's exciting to see every new little step in the right direction.

 

This is totally separate from DC's attempts to hype the step. They're a business, and they'll try to get as much play out of every move they make as they can.

 

I can agree with this. Marvel's marriage is a little more natural since Northstar has been an openly gay character for a long time now. If anything the big DC announcement coinciding with the marriage in the Marvel U has done harm, as it brings out the jaded opinions (such as mine) and just feels like another Marvel/DC arms race. Placing the blame on DC, as the marriage has probably been on the books for a year or more.

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

[greenhoody]

 

+1

[Dr. Balls]

[Dr. Balls]

I forgot it's Friday!

 

[Speedy-D]

It's all a reflection of the changes in and evolution of mainstream thought. As such, it's exciting to see every new little step in the right direction.

 

This is totally separate from DC's attempts to hype the step. They're a business, and they'll try to get as much play out of every move they make as they can.

 

I can agree with this. Marvel's marriage is a little more natural since Northstar has been an openly gay character for a long time now. If anything the big DC announcement coinciding with the marriage in the Marvel U has done harm, as it brings out the jaded opinions (such as mine) and just feels like another Marvel/DC arms race. Placing the blame on DC, as the marriage has probably been on the books for a year or more.

 

Even if it's 100% calculated to drive sales, it's still reflective of changing opinions. If it weren't becoming more accepted, they wouldn't be using it to sell comics.

[Speedy-D]

 

+1

hah! don't fret, i'm leaving this one alone if it threatens to turn ugly

[revat]

It's all a reflection of the changes in and evolution of mainstream thought. As such, it's exciting to see every new little step in the right direction.

 

This is totally separate from DC's attempts to hype the step. They're a business, and they'll try to get as much play out of every move they make as they can.

 

I can agree with this. Marvel's marriage is a little more natural since Northstar has been a openly gay character for a long time now. If anything the big DC announcement coinciding with the marriage in the Marvel U has done harm, as it brings out the jaded opinions (such as mine) and just feels like another Marvel/DC arms race. Placing the blame on DC, as the marriage has probably been on the books for a year or more.

 

 

I'll play some devil's advocate.

It does seem like DC maybe just trying to counter Marvel's 'gay moves'. BUT there are many many cases in real life where a person's 'coming out' or 'revelation' is extremely sudden and unexpected, with very little buildup or background.

They go about their growing up, schooling, careers either hiding their sexual preferences for any number of reasons, or accepting later in life that they are homosexual in a way that is OFTEN a surprise to many, and in a few instances a surprise even to themselves.

 

While many may believe that it is being done for the wrong reasons or that timing is suspect, that doesn't make it automatically a 'bad' storyline, or a story line not indicative of some real life situations. I reserve judgement on this issue.

 

 

[greenhoody]

It's all a reflection of the changes in and evolution of mainstream thought. As such, it's exciting to see every new little step in the right direction.

 

This is totally separate from DC's attempts to hype the step. They're a business, and they'll try to get as much play out of every move they make as they can.

 

I can agree with this. Marvel's marriage is a little more natural since Northstar has been an openly gay character for a long time now. If anything the big DC announcement coinciding with the marriage in the Marvel U has done harm, as it brings out the jaded opinions (such as mine) and just feels like another Marvel/DC arms race. Placing the blame on DC, as the marriage has probably been on the books for a year or more.

 

Even if it's 100% calculated to drive sales, it's still reflective of changing opinions. If it weren't becoming more accepted, they wouldn't be using it to sell comics.

 

Don't forget, any publicity is good publicity.

Really it's the ulilmate publicity stunt, because anyone who does not like it is most often afraid to say so and were not buying that comic anyways, and those on the other side of the coin will go around talking about how great it is, and if they were not buying it they mite now. It's a win win for DC errr Marvel.

[greenhoody]

It's all a reflection of the changes in and evolution of mainstream thought. As such, it's exciting to see every new little step in the right direction.

 

This is totally separate from DC's attempts to hype the step. They're a business, and they'll try to get as much play out of every move they make as they can.

 

I can agree with this. Marvel's marriage is a little more natural since Northstar has been a openly gay character for a long time now. If anything the big DC announcement coinciding with the marriage in the Marvel U has done harm, as it brings out the jaded opinions (such as mine) and just feels like another Marvel/DC arms race. Placing the blame on DC, as the marriage has probably been on the books for a year or more.

 

 

I'll play some devil's advocate.

It does seem like DC maybe just trying to counter Marvel's 'gay moves'. BUT there are many many cases in real life where a person's 'coming out' or 'revelation' is extremely sudden and unexpected, with very little buildup or background.

They go about their growing up, schooling, careers either hiding their sexual preferences for any number of reasons, or accepting later in life that they are homosexual in a way that is OFTEN a surprise to many, and in a few instances a surprise even to themselves.

 

While many may believe that it is being done for the wrong reasons or that timing is suspect, that doesn't make it automatically a 'bad' storyline, or a story line not indicative of some real life situations. I reserve judgement on this issue.

 

 

[AUChief]

Sure, companies can be compassionate sometimes. You think Marvel's latest "stunt," The Blue Ear, is just a coldly calculated move? I think it was a genuinely good thing to do.

 

I'm also sure there is at least one (probably many more!) people at Marvel and DC that care about GLBT rights and probably had some input. Also, these are huge companies and the people in charge of those companies are tasked with selling comics. If they just so happen to advance an agenda while they do it then that's killing two birds with one stone. If Marvel didn't have a history of pandering (minority characters are represented terribly/stereotypically) I'd just put this all off on DC who seems to have tried to beat Marvel to the punch with their big announcement.

 

After having been out of comics for a long time a few years back, I didn't understand why people harbored such jaded feelings and resentment towards these two companies, but being back in the last few years and reading as an adult has shown me why.

[revat]

Sure, companies can be compassionate sometimes. You think Marvel's latest "stunt," The Blue Ear, is just a coldly calculated move? I think it was a genuinely good thing to do.

 

I'm also sure there is at least one (probably many more!) people at Marvel and DC that care about GLBT rights and probably had some input. Also, these are huge companies and the people in charge of those companies are tasked with selling comics. If they just so happen to advance an agenda while they do it then that's killing two birds with one stone. If Marvel didn't have a history of pandering (minority characters are represented terribly/stereotypically) I'd just put this all off on DC who seems to have tried to beat Marvel to the punch with their big announcement.

 

After having been out of comics for a long time a few years back, I didn't understand why people harbored such jaded feelings and resentment towards these two companies, but being back in the last few years and reading as an adult has shown me why.

 

Great points, a ton of the 'talent' at comic book companies is either LGBT or very LGBT-friendly and the companies would absolutely want to handle these situations with care.

[AUChief]

It's all a reflection of the changes in and evolution of mainstream thought. As such, it's exciting to see every new little step in the right direction.

 

This is totally separate from DC's attempts to hype the step. They're a business, and they'll try to get as much play out of every move they make as they can.

 

I can agree with this. Marvel's marriage is a little more natural since Northstar has been an openly gay character for a long time now. If anything the big DC announcement coinciding with the marriage in the Marvel U has done harm, as it brings out the jaded opinions (such as mine) and just feels like another Marvel/DC arms race. Placing the blame on DC, as the marriage has probably been on the books for a year or more.

 

Even if it's 100% calculated to drive sales, it's still reflective of changing opinions. If it weren't becoming more accepted, they wouldn't be using it to sell comics.

 

Don't forget, any publicity is good publicity.

Really it's the ulilmate publicity stunt, because anyone who does not like it is most often afraid to say so and were not buying that comic anyways, and those on the other side of the coin will go around talking about how great it is, and if they were not buying it they mite now. It's a win win for DC errr Marvel.

 

I actually meant to include something like that in my last post. Publicity, or lets call it awareness in this case, is good in any form because it gets people talking. I think its important to be wary of settling into a "take what you can get" attitude, but in this case, other than a swath of society that's as jaded as myself (on second thought that might be a pretty big swath, but nonetheless) it does put it in the public view for consideration. Also, in these cases it's always the crazies who go hardcore boycott on stuff like this that come out looking terrible, and by default those on the other side of the issue look a little better.

[500Club]

The majority opinion in the previous thread about a DC character coming out was that all this stuff is a reflection of mainstream thought. Yet, here we have press releases and news coverage about something people say is mainstream and normal. Seems to me it shouldn't be a big deal if the majority opinion thinks this subject matter is appropriate for comics that children might read.

 

So which is it? Mainstream and no big deal because it just reflects society? Or a big deal that begs to have press releases and news coverage? If it was considered mainstream and most parents couldn't care less there wouldn't be any media spotlight, right?

 

See bold - it's because attitudes like yours exist. QED.