Facilitator questions for discussion

[Pirate]

I had to toggle.

 

 

Do I need to sit down and spend hours calculating the percentage of WTB threads I actually post in?

 

I have a copy of your book btw but you're just mean old pirate.

 

I don't recall writing a book, but who knows my college days were a blur. I'll be happy to autograph it for you.

[rtecbot]

Three questions for the boards. I do believe a useful discussion can ensue.

 

1) Does a facilitator have the right to not ship books to customer when there is an undisputed balance due that far exceeds the value of the few books to be shipped? FYI - CGC’s answer is yes.

 

Yes facilitator has the right to not ship books if there is a balance pending, however from a customer stand point there should be an invoice breakdown to see what has been paid & what is still outstanding, what got done, what did not get done, & make sure that all the books get back to the owner when possible.

 

(UPS & FedEx have totally destroyed some of my books, but that is what shipping insurance is for, some have been lost even with a tracking number, again insurance is key some facilitators max out the insured cost of an item based on the tier they submitted on the form). This does not cover the shipper inappropriately packaging a book in a manila envelope or no bubble wrap in the CGC box or no cardboard between every 5 slabs, but that's another topic

 

2) If the customer is so unhappy with the service or grade, does the facilitator have the right to replace the book in question with a raw or graded book of equal or greater condition and refund any money paid (or in some cases just not charge the fee)? Essentially reversing the transaction completely. (Additional fact, website states signatures are not guaranteed).

Facilitator & customer should try all avenues to resolve their issues "privately" with CGC oversight on escalation. Keeping Joe & CGC informed on the situation is key so they know it of it & are not blindsided.

 

Resolution should occur with both party "reasonable" agreement, 3rd party can arbitrate on escalation (replacement, book worth, compensation, discount, future submissions, the options are numerous), it gets more difficult if as stated in other posts if the book is pedigreed or owner has personal attachment to book.

 

But the risk is always known in CGC SS (facilitators across the board do a pretty good job in explaining this), if you are not comfortable in the risk you should find another book or get the artist to sign the slab.

 

Book lead times are never accurate it is best for the customer to gauge from the other collectors how long it is taking CGC to get through the convention pile, the back from CGC thread is a good indicator of where they are at

 

3) What compensation should be given when books are at CGC but the invoice number cannot be found? (Possible reasons, number re-issued by CGC and facilitator not informed, misfiled by facilitator, books are dropped off at the CGC booth and green copy is not given to facilitator at show, unreadable green copy, or my dog ate the green copy.)

 

Understandable that during conventions that it can get hectic, even best laid plans can go to pot. Forms can get misplaced, wrong form given to wrong customer, books put on different tiers, value of books misstated.

 

Some facilitators go out of their way to accommodate customers in different ways. Facilitator should try everything in their side to track the book down up to the hand off to CGC.

 

Customer should put all their info on the backing board on the book along with their phone number & address. Again Keeping Joe & CGC informed on the situation is key at this point so they know a book is possibly in their possession or at least confirm that the book is not in the pile that came in from a convention.

 

Sharon

Does everyone on the boards need to know the details of how an op or sketch opportunity takes place or how a dispute is being resolved, simple answer to that is the CGC SS director approved it or the disputing parties resolved it should all that should be said.

 

Customers should also be realistic even if a facilitator says they can do a service if CGC SS rules say otherwise I would lean on the rules or best yet check with CGC to see if the rules have changed.

 

If books are currently lagging on the lead times, the customer should check with CGC before hammering the facilitator. (The books should have all of your info on them if you bothered to put your info on the backboard, or if CGC finds a book down there without an invoice it should not be hard for them to figure out who it belongs to)

[A-DONIS]

This is sad, on both parts of the spectrum.

 

It's sad because a boardie is having issues with a facilitator.

 

It's also sad because the facilitator has taken on way too much, and hasn't realized it.

 

 

[N/A]

I had to toggle.

 

 

Do I need to sit down and spend hours calculating the percentage of WTB threads I actually post in?

 

I have a copy of your book btw but you're just mean old pirate.

 

I don't recall writing a book, but who knows my college days were a blur. I'll be happy to autograph it for you.

 

Do you have a signing fee?

[mschmidt]

Does everyone on the boards need to know the details of how an op or sketch opportunity takes place or how a dispute is being resolved, simple answer to that is the CGC SS director approved it or the disputing parties resolved it should all that should be said.

 

Customers should also be realistic even if a facilitator says they can do a service if CGC SS rules say otherwise I would lean on the rules or best yet check with CGC to see if the rules have changed.

 

If books are currently lagging on the lead times, the customer should check with CGC before hammering the facilitator. (The books should have all of your info on them if you bothered to put your info on the backboard, or if CGC finds a book down there without an invoice it should not be hard for them to figure out who it belongs to)

 

Your first paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Your second paragraph doesn't apply to anything previously discussed in this thread.

 

And your third paragraph is absolute nonsense.

 

Zero for 3 - nice job

[Transplant]

Does everyone on the boards need to know the details of how an op or sketch opportunity takes place or how a dispute is being resolved, simple answer to that is the CGC SS director approved it or the disputing parties resolved it should all that should be said. Personally, I think these discussions lead to more informed consumers.

 

Customers should also be realistic even if a facilitator says they can do a service if CGC SS rules say otherwise I would lean on the rules or best yet check with CGC to see if the rules have changed. And facilitators shouldn't promise things they're not allowed to: holding over multiple shows and/or doing onsite for books when not available.

 

If books are currently lagging on the lead times, the customer should check with CGC before hammering the facilitator. (The books should have all of your info on them if you bothered to put your info on the backboard, or if CGC finds a book down there without an invoice it should not be hard for them to figure out who it belongs to) Agreed. Wouldn't it be good to have an invoice number with which one could call CGC to inquire as to the status?

[rtecbot]

Does everyone on the boards need to know the details of how an op or sketch opportunity takes place or how a dispute is being resolved, simple answer to that is the CGC SS director approved it or the disputing parties resolved it should all that should be said.

 

Customers should also be realistic even if a facilitator says they can do a service if CGC SS rules say otherwise I would lean on the rules or best yet check with CGC to see if the rules have changed.

 

If books are currently lagging on the lead times, the customer should check with CGC before hammering the facilitator. (The books should have all of your info on them if you bothered to put your info on the backboard, or if CGC finds a book down there without an invoice it should not be hard for them to figure out who it belongs to)

 

Your first paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Your second paragraph doesn't apply to anything previously discussed in this thread.

 

And your third paragraph is absolute nonsense.

 

Zero for 3 - nice job

 

It's Tuesday the three day holiday weekend killed more brain cells than normal either that or trying to read through all the long threads

[Ziazmere]

Does everyone on the boards need to know the details of how an op or sketch opportunity takes place or how a dispute is being resolved, simple answer to that is the CGC SS director approved it or the disputing parties resolved it should all that should be said.

If I feel like sharing and it's an open forum then yes. You are more than welcome to skip the thread if you do not like the information contained with in the thread!

 

Customers should also be realistic even if a facilitator says they can do a service if CGC SS rules say otherwise I would lean on the rules or best yet check with CGC to see if the rules have changed.

CGC can make judgement as they see fit, but of course you are entitled to your opinion!

 

If books are currently lagging on the lead times, the customer should check with CGC before hammering the facilitator. (The books should have all of your info on them if you bothered to put your info on the backboard, or if CGC finds a book down there without an invoice it should not be hard for them to figure out who it belongs to)

 

Cough, you need invoices for this!!! DWC miss placed, lost or just neglected to provide an invoice, no matter how many times I asked

[mschmidt]

Does everyone on the boards need to know the details of how an op or sketch opportunity takes place or how a dispute is being resolved, simple answer to that is the CGC SS director approved it or the disputing parties resolved it should all that should be said.

 

Customers should also be realistic even if a facilitator says they can do a service if CGC SS rules say otherwise I would lean on the rules or best yet check with CGC to see if the rules have changed.

 

If books are currently lagging on the lead times, the customer should check with CGC before hammering the facilitator. (The books should have all of your info on them if you bothered to put your info on the backboard, or if CGC finds a book down there without an invoice it should not be hard for them to figure out who it belongs to)

 

Your first paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Your second paragraph doesn't apply to anything previously discussed in this thread.

 

And your third paragraph is absolute nonsense.

 

Zero for 3 - nice job

 

It's Tuesday the three day holiday weekend killed more brain cells than normal either that or trying to read through all the long threads

 

::

[MedicAR]

You opened your self up to all answers by asking open ended question!

 

Really you asked those 3 questions with no spiteful or malicious intent! Tell the truth, its not hard.

 

Z,

 

I'm not taking sides here, so please don't take it that way.

 

It's time to let DWC and CGC handle this privately. I completely understand your frustration. I had similar problems sometime back with a facilitator/Witness and couldn't get what I considered to be a straight answer. I tried and tried. I hinted at it in threads, I came out and said it in threads, and finally even started threads about it. In the end the exact same thing happened then that is happening now. we wound up with three factions, those with me, those with the Witness, and there was the majority that just wanted it all to go away.

 

That third group is growing by the day now, as it was then.

 

The long and short of it is this, at this point no good will come of further posting about it. You're too entrenched to see DWC's side. DWC is trying to cover themselves and keep business coming in. You've both managed to give and get a pretty good black eye. Now is the time to let it go, at least publicly.

 

I'm not saying to give up, by all means you should get your books back or books equal to them, signed or not. I know not having them signed sucks to say the least, but a big part of this hobby is the risk of not getting things done. I am pretty sure I can say that anyone I have ever sent books to has had a minimum of one failure to get a signature. It's rarely (if ever) their fault. The creator doesn't show, lines are too long, creator cuts the appearance short...whatever. The point is that it happens.

 

I have had books lost in the system, too. I shouldn't happen, but it does. Accidents happen and there are a million and one different ways that they can happen. No one bats 1000, that is life. Considering the volume I saw DWC handle in 3/4 of a day in Dallas, I understand that there will be the occasional screw up. I have even had problems very similar to yours with DWC. It took a lot of time and a lot more patience, but I did get everything back in hand and all signed. The same deal with the other Witness I had problems with and made very public, I did finally get them all back after between 8-10 months (I've made a point to forget).

 

I know there is a lot of money in this, whether you're collecting for fun, as I am, or if you're trying to flip the books and make money. It gets frustrating and even scary at times, especially with rare or expensive books. Just remember that there are people on the other end of the phone or email and they don't want you to be disappointed any more than you want to be. They may not be acting fast enough for you, but I have no doubt that they are trying.

 

Non of this is to diminish your claim or frustration. I'm just saying it's time to move on publicly.

 

 

Medicar,

 

No offense taken

 

I have been PMing Joe and Paul since the 7th of May... They have all the information. I have been in communication with CGC over the phone!

 

DWC however continues to barrage me with PMs and emails showing their incompetency as a business and as a facilitator that represents CGC!

 

I'm glad I didn't make matters worse. I'm glad you're working with CGC toward some kind of solution. But my perception of your post, all from the last sentence, is that you missed the point.

 

You're still trying to get the final word and upper hand. Again, from experience, this isn't a good way to live. Work it out to your satisfaction or as close to as you can get. Come back and let us know that it has been resolved whether to your satisfaction or not, just let us know when it is resolved.

 

Once this is done, for your own sanity, the well being of those near and dear to you, the image of CGC and for the well being of everyone on the boards...let it go.

 

Like I say, I'm really not trying to take sides but this is consuming the Signature Room and as it has been pointed out before, it reflects on all of us. Please keep working to resolve it privately and let us know when it is done. Also keep in mind that it's not just fans, collectors and dealers that come in here. There are also creators and their friends and associates, we want them to be happy and even excited and anxious to work with us.

 

Comics are unique in the way that fans and creators get to interact. We don't see this in music, movies, literature or "high art." I think it is important that we all work to keep that relationship strong and healthy. Keeping threads like this alive works to do the exact opposite. It makes us all look suspect and if I were in the business, I would work to distance myself from anything that looks bad and might draw attention away from me an my creations.

 

Again, just my 2¢

 

I hope you can get things worked out!

[rtecbot]

& with that I bow out

Ziazmere

All the best, hope you get your problems addressed, keep at it you will eventually get there.

A 55 sig project book will be a good thing to see. Nice paint sketch on the Batman # 1 in the Phoenix thread wonder if CGC will put it as a sketch cover in the notation

[Prince Namor]

Three questions for the boards. I do believe a useful discussion can ensue.

 

1) Does a facilitator have the right to not ship books to customer when there is an undisputed balance due that far exceeds the value of the few books to be shipped? FYI - CGC’s answer is yes.

 

2) If the customer is so unhappy with the service or grade, does the facilitator have the right to replace the book in question with a raw or graded book of equal or greater condition and refund any money paid (or in some cases just not charge the fee)? Essentially reversing the transaction completely. (Additional fact, website states signatures are not guaranteed).

 

3) What compensation should be given when books are at CGC but the invoice number cannot be found? (Possible reasons, number re-issued by CGC and facilitator not informed, misfiled by facilitator, books are dropped off at the CGC booth and green copy is not given to facilitator at show, unreadable green copy, or my dog ate the green copy.)

 

 

Sharon

 

2 and 3 to me are the same question and if you're soliciting honest business advice then I would suggest one of 2 things. Either cut down on the number of conventions in the short term in order to get your house in order. You should be checking every one of your processes to see what issues arise. If you don't wish to spend the time yourself then hire a 3rd party to do it. It can be quite useful.

 

I suspect the issues are a result of either processes that need improving or to reduce errors then reduce the number of submissions solicited. There appear to be glaring errors in your standard operating procedure and once those are corrected then it boils down to volume. Either more staff is required for the volume or the volume needs to be reduced. Until the procedure are fixed then the amount of attainable volume can't be calculated.

 

Exceptional advice.

[Ziazmere]

& with that I bow out

Ziazmere

All the best, hope you get your problems addressed, keep at it you will eventually get there.

A 55 sig project book will be a good thing to see. Nice paint sketch on the Batman # 1 in the Phoenix thread wonder if CGC will put it as a sketch cover in the notation

 

Thank you

 

A 55 sig project book would be nice to see..To bad it will not happen for me any time soon. I think there are a few out there that have almost the full 100. I am not sure if those are CGC SS. I might make another attempt, but I will take the books to Conventions my self over a few years.

 

We will see on the The Batman #1,

[tjanse]

& with that I bow out

Ziazmere

All the best, hope you get your problems addressed, keep at it you will eventually get there.

A 55 sig project book will be a good thing to see. Nice paint sketch on the Batman # 1 in the Phoenix thread wonder if CGC will put it as a sketch cover in the notation

 

Thank you

 

A 55 sig project book would be nice to see..To bad it will not happen for me any time soon. I think there are a few out there that have almost the full 100. I am not sure if those are CGC SS. I might make another attempt, but I will take the books to Conventions my self over a few years.

 

We will see on the The Batman #1,

 

It was nice meeting you at phx comic con. And i wish you the best of luck in all this.

[A-DONIS]

55 x 5

 

That's $275 in sigs alone

[NYComics]

Three questions for the boards. I do believe a useful discussion can ensue.

 

1) Does a facilitator have the right to not ship books to customer when there is an undisputed balance due that far exceeds the value of the few books to be shipped? FYI - CGC’s answer is yes.

 

Yes, you have the right.

The way I do it differently is that I make sure to collect all payment fee's prior to the signing. If a payment plan is needed I am flexible in setting one up with my clients knowing I wont ship until full payment recieved.

 

2) If the customer is so unhappy with the service or grade, does the facilitator have the right to replace the book in question with a raw or graded book of equal or greater condition and refund any money paid (or in some cases just not charge the fee)? Essentially reversing the transaction completely. (Additional fact, website states signatures are not guaranteed).

 

I am not sure if I totally get this question... If you are saying do you have the right to go "Okay this signature won't happen let me replace/return your book and get your stuff back to you." Then my answer is sure, it happens. Make sure to get all the stuff back to your clients along with their $$. I would not go so far as to compensate them for their shipping fees to me. But I would eat the return shipping cost and literally just send their package back.

 

3) What compensation should be given when books are at CGC but the invoice number cannot be found? (Possible reasons, number re-issued by CGC and facilitator not informed, misfiled by facilitator, books are dropped off at the CGC booth and green copy is not given to facilitator at show, unreadable green copy, or my dog ate the green copy.)

 

This is a tricky question to answer. I do not do the volume like you guys do so I cannot fully understand your situation. Ultimately they are your client and it is up to you to take care of them. One time I had a serious problem and CGC and Joe P went above and beyond because they knew it was not my fault what occurred. (I did keep my client informed the whole way and I know he appreciated it because we still do business.) Also the way I avoid confusion is because I keep spreadsheets from each event and I email all of my clients their invoice #'s and I label all books w/ correct invoice #'s. Then when books ship back to CGC I make sure to confirm my large submission with Joe......and yes he is a saint and it is a great system and that is how I find out if CGC needed to generate a new invoice etc. and that all is well.

 

Sharon

 

I hope everything works out!

 

 

[Ziazmere]

55 x 5

 

That's $275 in sigs alone

 

Adonis,

 

DWC charges $10.00 per sig plus artists fees and or donations.

[Transplant]

Once this is done, for your own sanity, the well being of those near and dear to you, the image of CGC and for the well being of everyone on the boards...let it go.

 

Like I say, I'm really not trying to take sides but this is consuming the Signature Room and as it has been pointed out before, it reflects on all of us. Please keep working to resolve it privately and let us know when it is done. Also keep in mind that it's not just fans, collectors and dealers that come in here. There are also creators and their friends and associates, we want them to be happy and even excited and anxious to work with us.

For the love of God. Please stop posting this claptrap.

 

In your world, no one would ever voice any public criticism of anyone in the SS program or of the program itself. I can't tell you how ridiculous a proposition that is.

 

Were it not for the threads here or the conversations I've had with people about the way certain facilitators track and handle books, I might've used someone I now know to be sub-par. I'm thankful for people sharing their opinions.

 

Please don't turn into equivocating Roy of the SS forum.

[seanfingh]

 

Too late.

[MedicAR]

Once this is done, for your own sanity, the well being of those near and dear to you, the image of CGC and for the well being of everyone on the boards...let it go.

 

Like I say, I'm really not trying to take sides but this is consuming the Signature Room and as it has been pointed out before, it reflects on all of us. Please keep working to resolve it privately and let us know when it is done. Also keep in mind that it's not just fans, collectors and dealers that come in here. There are also creators and their friends and associates, we want them to be happy and even excited and anxious to work with us.

For the love of God. Please stop posting this claptrap.

 

In your world, no one would ever voice any public criticism of anyone in the SS program or of the program itself. I can't tell you how ridiculous a proposition that is.

 

Were it not for the threads here or the conversations I've had with people about the way certain facilitators track and handle books, I might've used someone I now know to be sub-par. I'm thankful for people sharing their opinions.

 

Please don't turn into equivocating Roy of the SS forum.

 

Stop acting like this isn't solely about trashing DWC. We all know the problems Z has had and we know they are not resolved. All that's happening now is whining, and moaning. We're now 18 pages into this in two threads, are we any closer to a resolution? No. Why? Because only three entities can do anything about it. Z, DWC and CGC. Carrying on in these threads changes nothing and makes us all look bad.

 

Have a conversation. Tell us about your experiences. I'm all for that, even though many of you now encouraging such activities are the same ones that didn't want to hear it from me not so long ago. State the facts. Make your case. Show us what is wrong! But calling names and belittling everyone for every word typed is just dumb.

 

Criticize away! Share your problems! I think Z managed to do that in his first post in each of these threads. Then it came to stuff like this:

 

DWC however continues to barrage me with PMs and emails showing their incompetency as a business and as a facilitator that represents CGC!

 

What part of that is informative? What part of that did you not get in his previous posts? This is small and petty. I'm not diminishing his problems, but his handling of them has gone beyond trying to get a resolution and into mud slinging. Once that starts, everybody gets dirty.

 

The way things have gone, if I were in CGC or DWC's position, I would send everything back, say "sorry" and put Z on the "no future business" list because it's obvious that nothing will satisfy the customer anymore and the continued strife doesn't solve anything.

 

“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.” -- Buddha