Facilitator questions for discussion

[Celestial Comics]

Three questions for the boards. I do believe a useful discussion can ensue.

 

1) Does a facilitator have the right to not ship books to customer when there is an undisputed balance due that far exceeds the value of the few books to be shipped? FYI - CGC’s answer is yes.

 

2) If the customer is so unhappy with the service or grade, does the facilitator have the right to replace the book in question with a raw or graded book of equal or greater condition and refund any money paid (or in some cases just not charge the fee)? Essentially reversing the transaction completely. (Additional fact, website states signatures are not guaranteed).

 

3) What compensation should be given when books are at CGC but the invoice number cannot be found? (Possible reasons, number re-issued by CGC and facilitator not informed, misfiled by facilitator, books are dropped off at the CGC booth and green copy is not given to facilitator at show, unreadable green copy, or my dog ate the green copy.)

 

 

Sharon

[AndyBoBo]

Although I am concerned with what these questions imply - I'll take the time to answer the questions as my view is possibly an impartial view as we have never dealt with one another before.

 

Three questions for the boards. I do believe a useful discussion can ensue.

 

1) Does a facilitator have the right to not ship books to customer when there is an undisputed balance due that far exceeds the value of the few books to be shipped? FYI - CGC’s answer is yes.

 

Of course - although the book itself is the property of the original owner, the facilitator is asked to perform a service; until the obligation of the owner is completed, the only way the facilitator can really ensure payment is by withholding shipment until that time.

 

I also do not think this act to be a trespass or conversion, although I'm a bit fuzzy in tort law.

 

2) If the customer is so unhappy with the service or grade, does the facilitator have the right to replace the book in question with a raw or graded book of equal or greater condition and refund any money paid (or in some cases just not charge the fee)? Essentially reversing the transaction completely. (Additional fact, website states signatures are not guaranteed).

This one is tougher; although a term of your service is that you cannot guarantee the completion of SS and as a result will return the book and refund the money spent, you are not returning the actual book. I do not think the alternative (what you propose above) is satisfactory. Although, what you propose is making the person whole (and that is all that is really required) that would leave a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Not assuming anything (or basing the following on anything that has been previously posted about/by you), if this is/was your policy, I would not use your service.

 

3) What compensation should be given when books are at CGC but the invoice number cannot be found? (Possible reasons, number re-issued by CGC and facilitator not informed, misfiled by facilitator, books are dropped off at the CGC booth and green copy is not given to facilitator at show, unreadable green copy, or my dog ate the green copy.)

 

A replacement book, compensation for the book lost, refund of the money spent on your services, possibly an interest rate on the money spent over the duration. In the alternative, make good and get the book re-done (using the replacement book) and comp your fee, just requiring payment of the discounted CGC grading fee.

 

Every reason given above is your fault (with one exception - the first), so it's on you to make good.

 

Sharon

[ChasingKingKirby]

1. Yes. No pay, no books. Makes sense to me.

 

2. Sure. If its the same book. (e.g. Iron man 1 in 7.0 for iron man 1 in 7.0 with the same pq.)

 

3. Compensation? I don't know about compensation. But I would think that what the facilitator "owes" is forthrightness and honesty. And promptness... Returning an e-mail 6-weeks later is unacceptable and downright rude.

[Mayor006]

I'll chime in as a person making a purchase....

 

1) If I have an outstanding balance with a facilitator, and have not made arrangements to clear that balance before requesting additional books be sent to me I'm dreaming. The facilitator is running a service and should have every right to minimize their exposure to risk and if that means holding books so be it.

 

2) As long as this arrangement is agreed upon up front I have no problem with this and see it as a means to come to agreement for a transaction gone wrong.

 

3) I think offering a discount on future orders, say 10% or something along those lines would be in order. I can see how this might be a big issue though because if the facilitator does not have the number and cannot pass that information along to the customer, the customer has no idea whatsoever if the book was even done much less when it will arrive. If say after the CGC days outstanding is passed and the books are still MIA, then additional compensation might could be discussed.

[Celestial Comics]

AndyBobo,

3) Book not lost, simply sitting at CGC awaiting to be graded, and then shipped to customer like every other book. The problem is that no invoice number could be provided as soon as the book was submitted or in a timely manner.

 

Good answers though for a case of a totally lost book.

 

Liked your answers as they showed thought and some knowledge but I have to disagree that when a facilitator submit hundreds of books to CGC at their booth that it would be their fault if CGC failed to pull the green copy and return it to the facilitator. If the facilitator did one invoice at a time it would be easy to notice they didn't get the copy but when one does a short box at a time, one is up to the mercy of CGC that they pulled all the green (gold) copies.

 

ML, thank you for your answers and yes, returning email 6 week later is rude but never our intention. For this we apologize but for the last year, since CGC delay, our mailboxes have been flooded with emails from everyone asking where is their book (90% have invoice numbers and could call CGC directly). If we don't have the answer at our figuretips, we save the email as new and followup later. Sometimes the email isn't saved as new by mistake and it takes awhile to realize it was never answered. This is why we openly publish a phone number for people to call and encourge customers to follow-up with another email if they don't get an answer. 99% of the time the book is at CGC awaiting grading.

 

Sharon

[ChasingKingKirby]

AndyBobo,

3) Book not lost, simply sitting at CGC awaiting to be graded, and then shipped to customer like every other book. The problem is that no invoice number could be provided as soon as the book was submitted or in a timely manner.

 

Good answers though for a case of a totally lost book.

 

Liked your answers as they showed thought and some knowledge but I have to disagree that when a facilitator submit hundreds of books to CGC at their booth that it would be their fault if CGC failed to pull the green copy and return it to the facilitator. If the facilitator did one invoice at a time it would be easy to notice they didn't get the copy but when one does a short box at a time, one is up to the mercy of CGC that they pulled all the green (gold) copies.

 

ML, thank you for your answers and yes, returning email 6 week later is rude but never our intention. For this we apologize but for the last year, since CGC delay, our mailboxes have been flooded with emails from everyone asking where is their book (90% have invoice numbers and could call CGC directly). If we don't have the answer at our figuretips, we save the email as new and followup later. Sometimes the email isn't saved as new by mistake and it takes awhile to realize it was never answered. This is why we openly publish a phone number for people to call and encourge customers to follow-up with another email if they don't get an answer. 99% of the time the book is at CGC awaiting grading.

 

Sharon

 

Honestly, if the customer has an invoice number, they should go to the bottom of the list for call backs. Customers with legitimate issues should receive priority handling. Perhaps, that may be where some of the angst originates. Just an observation.

[comix4fun]

 

2) If the customer is so unhappy with the service or grade, does the facilitator have the right to replace the book in question with a raw or graded book of equal or greater condition and refund any money paid (or in some cases just not charge the fee)? Essentially reversing the transaction completely. (Additional fact, website states signatures are not guaranteed).

 

Sharon

 

 

 

Difficult question.

 

It will probably have a different answer depending on the book in question.

 

Common Book, one signature or more signatures, exchanged for the same title, issue, grade, and the same sigs then it's something the customer probably would not mind.

 

The complicated part comes in if you have a books that was previously signed one or more times by folks that may or may not be replaceable. This is also true if the book happens to be a pedigree.

 

If there's an easy and clear way to get back to square one then it makes sense. However, I have seen some strange books in this program getting an owner back to square one on something more unique would be challenging to put it mildly.

 

Regardless, it sounds like something that both parties would have to agree to and not something that either side can demand or decide unilaterally. Especially if it is not a term agreed upon in advance of the service being provided.

[Pirate]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

[Pirate]

AndyBobo,

3) Book not lost, simply sitting at CGC awaiting to be graded, and then shipped to customer like every other book. The problem is that no invoice number could be provided as soon as the book was submitted or in a timely manner.

 

Good answers though for a case of a totally lost book.

 

Liked your answers as they showed thought and some knowledge but I have to disagree that when a facilitator submit hundreds of books to CGC at their booth that it would be their fault if CGC failed to pull the green copy and return it to the facilitator. If the facilitator did one invoice at a time it would be easy to notice they didn't get the copy but when one does a short box at a time, one is up to the mercy of CGC that they pulled all the green (gold) copies.

 

ML, thank you for your answers and yes, returning email 6 week later is rude but never our intention. For this we apologize but for the last year, since CGC delay, our mailboxes have been flooded with emails from everyone asking where is their book (90% have invoice numbers and could call CGC directly). If we don't have the answer at our figuretips, we save the email as new and followup later. Sometimes the email isn't saved as new by mistake and it takes awhile to realize it was never answered. This is why we openly publish a phone number for people to call and encourge customers to follow-up with another email if they don't get an answer. 99% of the time the book is at CGC awaiting grading.

 

Sharon

 

if you accepted the book, then anything afterwards is your responsibility until the book is in the customers hands. The transaction doesn't end when it hits CGC. Did you think any of this out before going into the signature business?

[Ziazmere]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

 

I have never agreed with Pirate on anything until now.

 

I have to agree with Pirate 100% far all 3!!!!!!!!

 

But if the 3 did possible happen!

 

Useful discussion is more like Baloney

 

1. Its your fault if there is an outstanding balance that is unpaid, especially if you have the credit card! You are just being lazy and not billing the customer or providing a detailed bill to the customer and now you want twist the real issues! Get off your Back end and provide the customer service that is expected! Do not make excuses or Lie to CGC about your inability to swipe a credit card if you want your money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The facilitator should be responsible enough to never loose a book! Period! And if this really happened do not Blame CGC or Lie to the customer! You know you have!

3. Do not blame CGC, Its your responsibility as a facilitator to keep up with this information, if you can not then maybe its time you Stopped being a facilitator!

[jonjesper]

Not that anyone wants to hear my opinion and I like the questions being asked. Not sure what they relate to, but good for discussion purposes (which we need more of in the SS room vs opps for sketch covers )

Again, I don't know the particulars of what is prompting these questions, and odds are they would enlighten as nothing is black and white when it comes to SS...

Three questions for the boards. I do believe a useful discussion can ensue.

 

1) Does a facilitator have the right to not ship books to customer when there is an undisputed balance due that far exceeds the value of the few books to be shipped? FYI - CGC’s answer is yes.

 

I would start by saying there should never be a balance before the books get signed. After that I would have no idea. Payment up front, books don't get done, payment sent back with books shipped back to customer (shipping paid by facilitator if it came down to not being able to finish the service, shipping paid by customer if the creator did not show etc, basically things out of the facilitator's control.

2) If the customer is so unhappy with the service or grade, does the facilitator have the right to replace the book in question with a raw or graded book of equal or greater condition and refund any money paid (or in some cases just not charge the fee)? Essentially reversing the transaction completely. (Additional fact, website states signatures are not guaranteed).

 

If the facilitiator is doing all they can to safeguard the book, make sure it is signed and handled properly and then given to CGC, then there should be no replacement. If consistent problems happen with books being lower graded, not holding grades, or considerable drops (like a 9.2 to an 8.5) then the facilitator should look into better ways to safeguard the books. If a book was cracked to add tough signatures and they did not get done, well personally...the book should have never been sent to a facilitator to begin with and never should have been cracked to be signed. I saw someone at C2E2 crack several books to be signed and then regretted it because the signatures were not easy.

 

As far as reversing the transaction? Absolutely not. Someone sent a book to a facilitator, paid shipping, hopefully prepped the book, counted on it being signed (hopefully the facilitator was only taking subs for books from creators that are attainable) and trusted that book to the facilitator.

To me it would like bringing my car into the shop for a new serpentine belt. The shop then calls me and tells me that they were not able to replace the belt, but they took it off and will refund my money or not charge me for it...now come get your car. That was not what was agreed to originally. They expect me to pay their services, I expect them to fulfill their services.

3) What compensation should be given when books are at CGC but the invoice number cannot be found? (Possible reasons, number re-issued by CGC and facilitator not informed, misfiled by facilitator, books are dropped off at the CGC booth and green copy is not given to facilitator at show, unreadable green copy, or my dog ate the green copy.)

 

While I know things happen and that little green paper is important, making sure that books are numbered (the backing boards) with the proper invoice as well as making sure that green copies are safeguarded like they were money (which they are), should be as important as getting the books signed.

There are multiple copies of the invoice, so if the green was lost, CGC should have a copy of it somewhere between all their systems.

I can see it happening with volume, but bottom line, it is both the faciltators and partially CGCs responsibility to get that green form back to the facilitator...

That said, if people put books on their own account, typically I have seen the green form stay with the person so they have a record of it and can look on their own account for information.

 

 

Sharon

[Dark Prime 0]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

 

I have never agreed with Pirate on anything until now.

 

I have to agree with Pirate 100% far all 3!!!!!!!!

 

But if the 3 did possible happen!

 

Useful discussion is more like Baloney

 

1. Its your fault if there is an outstanding balance that is unpaid, especially if you have the credit card! You are just being lazy and not billing the customer or providing a detailed bill to the customer and now you want twist the real issues! Get off your Back end and provide the customer service that is expected! Do not make excuses or Lie to CGC about your inability to swipe a credit card if you want your money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The facilitator should be responsible enough to never loose a book! Period! And if this really happened do not Blame CGC or Lie to the customer! You know you have!

3. Do not blame CGC, Its your responsibility as a facilitator to keep up with this information, if you can not then maybe its time you Stopped being a facilitator!

i won't offer a responce to 2-3 (either these 2 responces or with my own)

 

but with #1 you 2 are being unreasonable people do work all the time and get paied after......just so happens that DWC has the books to hold over peoples heads to pay their bills, instead of in some other buinnesses where they have to take them to court to pay up

 

ok let me ask both of you......is it the companys fault if someone has an outstanding blance but yet wants their item and the company refuses to give it over till blance is paid, take you pick on a company (plumber, electric company, water compeny, other)

 

my family owned a catering/party/resturant, we did a wedding where we asked for X down payment......and mother holds her daughter wedding resaprion with us, then can't pay so we take her to court..........in then end were left with a 2-3k bill and the mother is paying us 20-50 a month bc that's all she could afford

 

you can not honestly tell me that it's out fault for not demanding up front payment in full, buinsness relay on people doing a down payment the paying it off in full after or arranging to make make payments all the time, is it their falut if the costumer is a deadbeat and refuses to pay.......i know for myself when family borrows money i give a little leeway but after that they aren't getting mess till what they owe is paid off no matter the sob story (and if you say i'm being horrible to my family, off bc i'm currently owed in the 5 figure #'s by them combined so i've been more then generous)

 

if anything DWC should require you to put a down payment on the order if not paid up front......and it's kinda hard to charge a CC when non is given, then doing the work on "good faith" that the payment will be done afterwards

[Pirate]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

 

I have never agreed with Pirate on anything until now.

 

I have to agree with Pirate 100% far all 3!!!!!!!!

 

But if the 3 did possible happen!

 

Useful discussion is more like Baloney

 

1. Its your fault if there is an outstanding balance that is unpaid, especially if you have the credit card! You are just being lazy and not billing the customer or providing a detailed bill to the customer and now you want twist the real issues! Get off your Back end and provide the customer service that is expected! Do not make excuses or Lie to CGC about your inability to swipe a credit card if you want your money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The facilitator should be responsible enough to never loose a book! Period! And if this really happened do not Blame CGC or Lie to the customer! You know you have!

3. Do not blame CGC, Its your responsibility as a facilitator to keep up with this information, if you can not then maybe its time you Stopped being a facilitator!

i won't offer a responce to 2-3 (either these 2 responces or with my own)

 

but with #1 you 2 are being unreasonable people do work all the time and get paied after......just so happens that DWC has the books to hold over peoples heads to pay their bills, instead of in some other buinnesses where they have to take them to court to pay up

 

ok let me ask both of you......is it the companys fault if someone has an outstanding blance but yet wants their item and the company refuses to give it over till blance is paid, take you pick on a company (plumber, electric company, water compeny, other)

 

my family owned a catering/party/resturant, we did a wedding where we asked for X down payment......and mother holds her daughter wedding resaprion with us, then can't pay so we take her to court..........in then end were left with a 2-3k bill and the mother is paying us 20-50 a month bc that's all she could afford

 

you can not honestly tell me that it's out fault for not demanding up front payment in full, buinsness relay on people doing a down payment the paying it off in full after or arranging to make make payments all the time, is it their falut if the costumer is a deadbeat and refuses to pay.......i know for myself when family borrows money i give a little leeway but after that they aren't getting mess till what they owe is paid off no matter the sob story (and if you say i'm being horrible to my family, off bc i'm currently owed in the 5 figure #'s by them combined so i've been more then generous)

 

if anything DWC should require you to put a down payment on the order if not paid up front......and it's kinda hard to charge a CC when non is given, then doing the work on "good faith" that the payment will be done afterwards

 

please read my answer to #1, thought it was pretty straight to the point.

[Ziazmere]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

 

I have never agreed with Pirate on anything until now.

 

I have to agree with Pirate 100% far all 3!!!!!!!!

 

But if the 3 did possible happen!

 

Useful discussion is more like Baloney

 

1. Its your fault if there is an outstanding balance that is unpaid, especially if you have the credit card! You are just being lazy and not billing the customer or providing a detailed bill to the customer and now you want twist the real issues! Get off your Back end and provide the customer service that is expected! Do not make excuses or Lie to CGC about your inability to swipe a credit card if you want your money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The facilitator should be responsible enough to never loose a book! Period! And if this really happened do not Blame CGC or Lie to the customer! You know you have!

3. Do not blame CGC, Its your responsibility as a facilitator to keep up with this information, if you can not then maybe its time you Stopped being a facilitator!

i won't offer a responce to 2-3 (either these 2 responces or with my own)

 

but with #1 you 2 are being unreasonable people do work all the time and get paied after......just so happens that DWC has the books to hold over peoples heads to pay their bills, instead of in some other buinnesses where they have to take them to court to pay up

 

ok let me ask both of you......is it the companys fault if someone has an outstanding blance but yet wants their item and the company refuses to give it over till blance is paid, take you pick on a company (plumber, electric company, water compeny, other)

 

my family owned a catering/party/resturant, we did a wedding where we asked for X down payment......and mother holds her daughter wedding resaprion with us, then can't pay so we take her to court..........in then end were left with a 2-3k bill and the mother is paying us 20-50 a month bc that's all she could afford

 

you can not honestly tell me that it's out fault for not demanding up front payment in full, buinsness relay on people doing a down payment the paying it off in full after or arranging to make make payments all the time, is it their falut if the costumer is a deadbeat and refuses to pay.......i know for myself when family borrows money i give a little leeway but after that they aren't getting mess till what they owe is paid off no matter the sob story (and if you say i'm being horrible to my family, off bc i'm currently owed in the 5 figure #'s by them combined so i've been more then generous)

 

if anything DWC should require you to put a down payment on the order if not paid up front......and it's kinda hard to charge a CC when non is given, then doing the work on "good faith" that the payment will be done afterwards

 

I am not being unreasonable...I provide my credit card up front. If DWC does not bill the card

[Rich_Henn]

I have a question----

 

1) Are these isolated incidents or recurring incidents?

 

And I have a (long) analogy, so if you don’t like heavy reading, please skip.

 

Before I did any of this as a business, I was in the business of customer care and satisfaction. I worked for a high end printer/publisher in the DC/MD area.

 

I worked at this specific plant for over 13 years, and ever customer was a valued customer. Prior to this plant, I worked at a facility in Buffalo, NY where one of our biggest clients was Marvel Comics. We did color seps for Marvel, the Syndicates (and by this I mean the Sunday Comic Syndicates), as well as Chase Pittkin, Lumber Boys, Home Depot, Mark Jewelers (I'm pretty sure that was the name), as well as K-Mart, Mr. Tire, etc. We had a number of small and big clients, but the two biggest were Marvel and the Syndicates.

 

The employees that worked there were hard working, honest people and took the job seriously. We had management that didn't take our biggest clients QUITE as seriously. After all, these were COMICS. Who gives a s...t, right?

 

Wrong.

 

We had one issue of Spec. SM where there were color corrections that needed to be made to Mary Jane's lipstick. Our guys kept getting it wrong. THREE times this had to get kicked back. We had to generate new film and proofs each time. If our management on that team hadn't been lazy and double-checked his peoples work, there wouldn't be a need to do this three times. On the third go-round, the manager of that dept got all in a huff (and I can still see this as it were yesterday) "WHO GIVES A S...T WHAT COLOR HER LIPS ARE??? ITS A KIDS COMIC BOOK FOR GODS SAKE!!!"

 

Well, when you have a paying client, who (regardless if they're our biggest or smallest) is PAYING us to do a job and do it CORRECTLY and without headache or hassles, it shouldn't matter if it's Marvel Comics or the President's Newsletter, YOU, my friend, are being paid to do the job RIGHT and to do it without complaints or excuses. This was the conversation he and I had.

 

That client is paying you to do a job.

The customer is always right.

The customer can (and WILL) take their business somewhere else.

 

If we lost a client, someone lost their job.

 

That manager was given the next three days off without pay.

When he came back to work, his attitude was clearly adjusted.

 

When I left this Buffalo NY facility and went to work in the MD/VA/DC area, and eventually landed at Balmar Printing, where I would be for the next 13+ years, my clients included Marriott, Amtrak, AT&T, GPO (Government Printing), Humane Society---small Mom & Pop shops, big corps and small outsource clients.

We did it all. The one thing we never did was make excuses or blame our mistakes on our clients EVEN IF THE CLIENT WAS AT FAULT FOR ANYTHING---such as forgetting to send us hi-res files, neglecting to give us all the print specs, perhaps they'd omitted certain important details like...oh, I don't know....WHAT PMS COLORS they might like on this really fancy foil embossed cover?

 

But as a full service facility, a printer/publisher/binder in a dying economy and a dying medium---hell, even BEFORE print went belly up---it didn't matter.

 

Questions--

1) How can I help?

2) What can I do to make this right?

3) Is there anything that I can do to make this more efficient?

4) Is there any information missing that perhaps I can glean with a call to my client?

 

Attitude---

1) CAN DO attitude

2) Multi-task.

3) The job doesn't end when we swipe your card

4) Thank you for your business.

5) Thank you for your business.

and most important

6) In a business where we know you have SEVERAL other options---

THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS.

 

Whenever we lost a client, someone was accountable. (as above)

 

That was a 10K client or a 100K client. They just found someone else who could do their job better and more efficient. They just found someone that could handle their work with zero drama, zero headaches, and guess what....CHEAPER too.

 

Because yes, you know what? My company was a high-end printer that really DID charge a premium to do a job that (some, but not many) other printers in the area could do as well, for perhaps a little less.

 

Half way into my 13 year stint, I became responsible for trafficking the jobs through the plant from entry (job planning with CSR's) to print, bindery and shipping. I was in charge of a lot of different cogs in that machine and I worked with a team of people that were all key to making it go smooth. These guys took pride in their work. They got paid sh..t to do the job because of the economy, but they did good work. When someone screwed up, he owned up to it. He didn't blame it on someone else.

 

We had a sales team that were 50/50. Some were hard go-getters, and others were lax with the clients they had. And we had this one sales rep, her name was Janet. She had (HAD being the key word here) been the top sales lady on our payroll for almost 2 decades. She thought her poo didn't stink. She thought she was the Big Dog. She threw her weight around like she owned the place. Her clients were some of THE biggest in the company.

 

The owner of the company said "If Janet wanted me to kiss her azz in the middle of the 695 beltway, I'd DO it!"

And I think she believed it. Well, when her clients work started to get sloppy---and a lot of this was based on information for jobs that she could have and SHOULD have been responsible for getting---she started to blame it on someone else.

All of a sudden, it was the color depts fault for not having the specs, or it was bindery's fault for not knowing this was an annual newsletter that should have been stitched and not glue bound, or it was our division president fault for not having a conf. call with all parties responsible.

 

Our company seemed to forget for a bit that Janet worked for THEM, not the other way around. They forgot that even though Janet had become a shi..y sales rep, content with blaming everyone else for her shortcomings, even going so far as to throw her own client under the bus or even our own company PRESIDENT under the bus....it was all about her making excuses.

 

And my company kept her around because they (don't ask why) felt that perhaps without her, they might lose that client.

 

One day Janet got way too big for her panties.

She actually hauled off and HIT another employee.

HR had no choice but to let her go.

Management was flipping out.

NO! NO! NO! We CANT let Janet go!

What about her clients?

 

Guess what. We assigned a different sales rep, one of those hard working

go-getters to her client list.

 

Guess what.

We didn't lose the business.

 

Guess what.

The clients business FLOURISHED. It grew.

We gave them someone that could handle their work better, more efficient, someone that didn't make excuses.

 

They were in love with us again.

They told us what a pain it had been in the end to continue to work with Janet,

and they didn't know that they had the option to use a different facilitator / sales rep for their account.

 

There seems to be zero accountability sometimes, and some of us may forget who is actually putting money on the table.

 

When you are spending HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of dollars on a service that you don't feel you are getting, you have EVER RIGHT to speak up.

 

You have EVERY RIGHT to voice your concerns.

 

This is YOUR money that you (actually don’t) need to spend because this is a HOBBY and NOT a necessity.

 

The moment that business walks out the door, it is NOT coming back.

 

In sales, in business, in comics or any other (pick your poison) you need to recognize the paying customer as that guy who is keeping your business afloat.

 

Weather its grading comics, signing comics, or bagging groceries.

You are providing a service, a service that you are being paid and being paid WELL to provide...do it, do it right and say THANK YOU for your patronage.

 

Because otherwise, you will become a dinosaur, just like the print industry.

 

The underlying message on this thread was someone who felt they were not getting the service they were paying for. This isn't the first thread, and probably won’t be the last.

 

Mud slinging?

No, I hope not.

 

Mud slinging is when someone says, "You're a big ol retarded jerk who stole my money, shot my dog, burned my house----and you smell too!"

Mud slinging is when you say something about someone that isn't close to the truth. I agree with Joe Pierson and CGC, no mud slinging.

 

I believe in accountability.

I believe in being able to provide a paid service and being held accountable

when/if that service isn't being provided.

 

Are we providing a paid service or is this all just a courtesy?

Looking for answers?

Sure, a public forum? Okay---well, we are all part of this public forum.

We're like one big nerdy family.

And I am sure there are members of your family that you don't like (and ergo, by choice, don't have to deal with).

 

But if a member of your family continues to take advantage of you, you have every right to go to the other members of your family and ask for help.

 

In this case, CGC is the Dad.

And if you can't find satisfaction with the answers Dad is giving you----you get help from your brothers and sisters.

 

And if THAT still doesn't work---then you call the adoption agency and look for the birth parents because this kid doesn't live here any more :thumbsup:

 

 

**One last food for thought---if you clearly find yourself taking on more then you can take on....STOP. Stop taking on the work.

 

***If you find yourself telling a paying customer things like "I have a day job" or "My parter and I don't communicate" then STOP.

These are the absolute worst excuses that you can possibly give a paying customer/client. A client does not care that you have "a day job" or that you "don't communicate" with your partner.

All this does is underscore that you cannot handle the work and that your customer is not your priority.

 

If someone pays you to do a job, any excuse is unacceptable because at the end of the day, it's just an excuse.

Leave comics out of this for just a second and ask yourself a different question---how do you handle a vendor/employee that can't complete the task at hand for a filtration system? A party planner that couldn't deliver the cake that was ordered from the bakery? An auto-repair shop that couldn't service your car because the shop was book solid for the next two days?

The roofer you hired to repair your roof, but sub-contracted the job to lower scale division who used less then sub-par shingles on your house?

And the roof leaks, and you spent $8000 to get the job done right the first time,

and found out that the guy you hired paid the lesser known vendor to do the job for less then half what you paid him---because he had another "day job" already on his planner?

 

The moment anyone in any business lets their customer know that they are not a valued customer, that's the moment they lose that customer forever. You can fight tooth and nail to get that customer back, but once the damage is done, its done.

 

I say the following in all seriousness and this applies to ALL walks of life in the world of business.

Customers don't care about your problems.

Customers don't care about your other day jobs, your personal issues or your financial situation.

Customers are not your friends.

Customers are not there to give you moral support or make you feel good about yourself.

Customers don't want excuses.

Customers don't like to feel like they're being taken advantage of.

Customers are just that....they are customers that are paying their hard earned money to do to a job. Don't make excuses. If you can't handle the job, then don't take the job on. But make no mistake, it's a JOB, not a favor.

 

I say that last part because if I asked you to do something for me and you couldn't because of your day job, and clearly I wasn't paying you for the service, then yes....that is very much an acceptable excuse.

 

This IS my day job.

I take my job very seriously and the moment you stop treating this like a job and begin treating it like a drive-thru is the moment people stop taking you seriously.

[ChasingKingKirby]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

 

I have never agreed with Pirate on anything until now.

 

I have to agree with Pirate 100% far all 3!!!!!!!!

 

But if the 3 did possible happen!

 

Useful discussion is more like Baloney

 

1. Its your fault if there is an outstanding balance that is unpaid, especially if you have the credit card! You are just being lazy and not billing the customer or providing a detailed bill to the customer and now you want twist the real issues! Get off your Back end and provide the customer service that is expected! Do not make excuses or Lie to CGC about your inability to swipe a credit card if you want your money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The facilitator should be responsible enough to never loose a book! Period! And if this really happened do not Blame CGC or Lie to the customer! You know you have!

3. Do not blame CGC, Its your responsibility as a facilitator to keep up with this information, if you can not then maybe its time you Stopped being a facilitator!

i won't offer a responce to 2-3 (either these 2 responces or with my own)

 

but with #1 you 2 are being unreasonable people do work all the time and get paied after......just so happens that DWC has the books to hold over peoples heads to pay their bills, instead of in some other buinnesses where they have to take them to court to pay up

 

ok let me ask both of you......is it the companys fault if someone has an outstanding blance but yet wants their item and the company refuses to give it over till blance is paid, take you pick on a company (plumber, electric company, water compeny, other)

 

my family owned a catering/party/resturant, we did a wedding where we asked for X down payment......and mother holds her daughter wedding resaprion with us, then can't pay so we take her to court..........in then end were left with a 2-3k bill and the mother is paying us 20-50 a month bc that's all she could afford

 

you can not honestly tell me that it's out fault for not demanding up front payment in full, buinsness relay on people doing a down payment the paying it off in full after or arranging to make make payments all the time, is it their falut if the costumer is a deadbeat and refuses to pay.......i know for myself when family borrows money i give a little leeway but after that they aren't getting mess till what they owe is paid off no matter the sob story (and if you say i'm being horrible to my family, off bc i'm currently owed in the 5 figure #'s by them combined so i've been more then generous)

 

if anything DWC should require you to put a down payment on the order if not paid up front......and it's kinda hard to charge a CC when non is given, then doing the work on "good faith" that the payment will be done afterwards

 

I am not being unreasonable...I provide my credit card up front. If DWC does not bill the card

 

 

That sounds pretty reasonable to me...

[Dark Prime 0]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

 

I have never agreed with Pirate on anything until now.

 

I have to agree with Pirate 100% far all 3!!!!!!!!

 

But if the 3 did possible happen!

 

Useful discussion is more like Baloney

 

1. Its your fault if there is an outstanding balance that is unpaid, especially if you have the credit card! You are just being lazy and not billing the customer or providing a detailed bill to the customer and now you want twist the real issues! Get off your Back end and provide the customer service that is expected! Do not make excuses or Lie to CGC about your inability to swipe a credit card if you want your money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The facilitator should be responsible enough to never loose a book! Period! And if this really happened do not Blame CGC or Lie to the customer! You know you have!

3. Do not blame CGC, Its your responsibility as a facilitator to keep up with this information, if you can not then maybe its time you Stopped being a facilitator!

i won't offer a responce to 2-3 (either these 2 responces or with my own)

 

but with #1 you 2 are being unreasonable people do work all the time and get paied after......just so happens that DWC has the books to hold over peoples heads to pay their bills, instead of in some other buinnesses where they have to take them to court to pay up

 

ok let me ask both of you......is it the companys fault if someone has an outstanding blance but yet wants their item and the company refuses to give it over till blance is paid, take you pick on a company (plumber, electric company, water compeny, other)

 

my family owned a catering/party/resturant, we did a wedding where we asked for X down payment......and mother holds her daughter wedding resaprion with us, then can't pay so we take her to court..........in then end were left with a 2-3k bill and the mother is paying us 20-50 a month bc that's all she could afford

 

you can not honestly tell me that it's out fault for not demanding up front payment in full, buinsness relay on people doing a down payment the paying it off in full after or arranging to make make payments all the time, is it their falut if the costumer is a deadbeat and refuses to pay.......i know for myself when family borrows money i give a little leeway but after that they aren't getting mess till what they owe is paid off no matter the sob story (and if you say i'm being horrible to my family, off bc i'm currently owed in the 5 figure #'s by them combined so i've been more then generous)

 

if anything DWC should require you to put a down payment on the order if not paid up front......and it's kinda hard to charge a CC when non is given, then doing the work on "good faith" that the payment will be done afterwards

 

I am not being unreasonable...I provide my credit card up front. If DWC does not bill the card

that is you.....not everyone does that, ask anyone i've done opps with or SS i pay be check and if my math is off they let me know and i pay up (but you are right as it relates to you, you give the info, if they don't charge it is not your problem)

 

and Pirate shouldn't happen and doesn't happen are 2 different things......as i said alot of buisness work that way

 

have you ever booked a party for a wedding or funeral or any type of party......hell a kids birthday party all work in this manner 1 down payment, 2 the party happens on the "good faith" that the host pays the bill, 3 bill is dilivered and either A paid for or B not paid for and court will be in the future if arrangments are not made

 

honestly JJ had the best idea pay or books don't get done, but again that's how he does it, DWC doesn't, Mr. Mylar for opps works both ways somtimes up front sometimes not, rich i forget (think he's like JJ unless he trusts you, but not sure) so everyone does it different

[rtecbot]

if you accepted the book, then anything afterwards is your responsibility until the book is in the customers hands. The transaction doesn't end when it hits CGC. Did you think any of this out before going into the signature business?

So if the Fed Ex or UPS truck runs over the box in transit from the convention & crushes the books you will still hold the facilitator accountable until the book is in the customer's hands? That is what shipping insurance is for, unless you expect facilitators to hand carry books back to Florida. Need to be realistic in expectations.

[comix4fun]

if you accepted the book, then anything afterwards is your responsibility until the book is in the customers hands. The transaction doesn't end when it hits CGC. Did you think any of this out before going into the signature business?

So if the Fed Ex or UPS truck runs over the box in transit from the convention & crushes the books you will still hold the facilitator accountable until the book is in the customer's hands? That is what shipping insurance is for, unless you expect facilitators to hand carry books back to Florida. Need to be realistic in expectations.

 

 

 

Insurance protects the shipper, not the receiver.

 

It's FOB to my front door. That's why the shipper takes out the insurance policy and the shipper has to make the claim. They hold liability up to, and until, delivery.

 

Until it reaches me, possession (and liability for damage) hasn't been transferred to me.

[Pirate]

1. should never happen

 

2. should never happen

 

3. should never happen

 

I have never agreed with Pirate on anything until now.

 

I have to agree with Pirate 100% far all 3!!!!!!!!

 

But if the 3 did possible happen!

 

Useful discussion is more like Baloney

 

1. Its your fault if there is an outstanding balance that is unpaid, especially if you have the credit card! You are just being lazy and not billing the customer or providing a detailed bill to the customer and now you want twist the real issues! Get off your Back end and provide the customer service that is expected! Do not make excuses or Lie to CGC about your inability to swipe a credit card if you want your money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The facilitator should be responsible enough to never loose a book! Period! And if this really happened do not Blame CGC or Lie to the customer! You know you have!

3. Do not blame CGC, Its your responsibility as a facilitator to keep up with this information, if you can not then maybe its time you Stopped being a facilitator!

i won't offer a responce to 2-3 (either these 2 responces or with my own)

 

but with #1 you 2 are being unreasonable people do work all the time and get paied after......just so happens that DWC has the books to hold over peoples heads to pay their bills, instead of in some other buinnesses where they have to take them to court to pay up

 

ok let me ask both of you......is it the companys fault if someone has an outstanding blance but yet wants their item and the company refuses to give it over till blance is paid, take you pick on a company (plumber, electric company, water compeny, other)

 

my family owned a catering/party/resturant, we did a wedding where we asked for X down payment......and mother holds her daughter wedding resaprion with us, then can't pay so we take her to court..........in then end were left with a 2-3k bill and the mother is paying us 20-50 a month bc that's all she could afford

 

you can not honestly tell me that it's out fault for not demanding up front payment in full, buinsness relay on people doing a down payment the paying it off in full after or arranging to make make payments all the time, is it their falut if the costumer is a deadbeat and refuses to pay.......i know for myself when family borrows money i give a little leeway but after that they aren't getting mess till what they owe is paid off no matter the sob story (and if you say i'm being horrible to my family, off bc i'm currently owed in the 5 figure #'s by them combined so i've been more then generous)

 

if anything DWC should require you to put a down payment on the order if not paid up front......and it's kinda hard to charge a CC when non is given, then doing the work on "good faith" that the payment will be done afterwards

 

I am not being unreasonable...I provide my credit card up front. If DWC does not bill the card

that is you.....not everyone does that, ask anyone i've done opps with or SS i pay be check and if my math is off they let me know and i pay up (but you are right as it relates to you, you give the info, if they don't charge it is not your problem)

 

and Pirate shouldn't happen and doesn't happen are 2 different things......as i said alot of buisness work that way

 

have you ever booked a party for a wedding or funeral or any type of party......hell a kids birthday party all work in this manner 1 down payment, 2 the party happens on the "good faith" that the host pays the bill, 3 bill is dilivered and either A paid for or B not paid for and court will be in the future if arrangments are not made

 

honestly JJ had the best idea pay or books don't get done, but again that's how he does it, DWC doesn't, Mr. Mylar for opps works both ways somtimes up front sometimes not, rich i forget (think he's like JJ unless he trusts you, but not sure) so everyone does it different

 

Well if you let it happen to you as a facilitator, then you're setting yourself up for problems.