Coin market has stickers now, does Comics have it too?

[mkman123]

Hi all, I'm more on the coin side but had a question, with coins there are two main grading companies....NGC or PCGS and both can be inconsistent and grade things different. So what happened is a company came along and would add a sticker....green or gold on them. The company is called CAC. Basically a sticker on your coin either means the coin is graded correctly or undergraded. No bean means most likely the coin is a lower end for that grade.

 

My question is, has someone tried this in comics and does it work? Or is CGC fairly consistent? What I mean is, are their times that you wonder why a comic only got 9.0 vs higher or that a certain comic didn't deserve that high of a grade?

 

Thanks!

[TheWatcher]

CGC seems to be consistently inconsistent

[shadroch]

The only consistent with CGC is their inconsistency. That is almost a constent.

[Davenport]

Encapsulated comics are immune by virtue of being encapsulated. Can't verify a professional grade without voiding it (cracking it open).

 

I like the sticker idea though.

 

[mkman123]

So if that is the case, what do you all do??? Crack out and resend or is there another competing comic grading company???

 

 

[PovertyRow]

A CAC type service has not, to my knowledge, been used in comics. But for good reasons. First, comics are more complex than a coin.

 

A coin has essentially three sides: obverse, reverse and edge.

 

A comic has 32, 48, 52, 64 etc "sides" depending on the page count. The inability to see all the sides, as with a coin (or at least the obverse/reverse), would preclude any judging of the interior. Thus a CAC type sticker would only be a reflection of the outside front/back covers.

 

Things like errors in coins which can be valuable tend to be devaluing to a comic. A bad miswrap, kind of like an off-center coin, is looked upon by collectors as less desirable.

 

"Crusty" coins would equate to "dirty" comics, again a more vs less desirable attribute.

 

But all that (and many more examples) aside, knowledgeable comic collectors have their own built-in CAC based on a set of personal criteria for what is desirable and undesirable. They don't need another company telling them that this particular book is especially nice. They can tell that themselves, and often the buy price will indicate the especially nice for the grade copy.

 

 

[Davenport]

This CAC page is interesting: NCA RECOVERS MORE THAN $1 MILLION FOR BUYERS OF OVERPRICED COINS

"NCA intervention in eight cases led to settlements totaling $1,114,200 for buyers who unwittingly purchased grossly overpriced coins, Albanese said

The Alliance has recovered more than $6 million since becoming operational in 2005. That’s an average of more than $1 million per year."

 

Comics are immune there too. No such thing as an "overpriced" comic.

"What someone was willing to pay" defines the back issue market.

[TheWatcher]

is there another competing comic grading company???

 

 

The "competition" to CGC, PGX, is a joke. Books that are PGX graded sell for less than their CGC counterparts

[PovertyRow]

This CAC page is interesting: NCA RECOVERS MORE THAN $1 MILLION FOR BUYERS OF OVERPRICED COINS

"NCA intervention in eight cases led to settlements totaling $1,114,200 for buyers who unwittingly purchased grossly overpriced coins, Albanese said

The Alliance has recovered more than $6 million since becoming operational in 2005. That’s an average of more than $1 million per year."

 

Comics are immune there too. No such thing as an "overpriced" comic.

"What someone was willing to pay" defines the backissue market.

 

It is interesting. They seem to be addressing “fringe grading services" as opposed to CGC's numismatic counterparts: NGC or PCGS.

[mkman123]

Thanks all for your responses, now I understand a little bit better. Comics are more intricate and thanks Povertyrow for explaining why a CAC type service couldn't work for comics due to so many variables!

 

I look forward to one day buying some CGC comics!

[lou_fine]

This CAC page is interesting: NCA RECOVERS MORE THAN $1 MILLION FOR BUYERS OF OVERPRICED COINS

"NCA intervention in eight cases led to settlements totaling $1,114,200 for buyers who unwittingly purchased grossly overpriced coins, Albanese said

The Alliance has recovered more than $6 million since becoming operational in 2005. That’s an average of more than $1 million per year."

 

Comics are immune there too. No such thing as an "overpriced" comic.

"What someone was willing to pay" defines the back issue market.

 

Same thing with the coin market as there should really be no such thing as an "overpriced" coin. Everybody in the marketplace should know the value of a dollar and there should be no confusion here.

 

A thousand dollars to the buyer is the same as a thousand dollars to the seller. A million dollars to the buyer should be the same as a million dollars to the seller. There should be no confusion here when you are talking about dollars and cents.

 

Now, if you are talking about grading, whether it be comics, coins, or wharever, that's a completely different story.

[mikenyc]

Who will watch the Watchmen?

 

 

[AGGIEZ]

So they grade an already graded coin? Who's going to start grading CAC graded stuff? Amazing

[PovertyRow]

So they grade an already graded coin? Who's going to start grading CAC graded stuff? Amazing

 

In a sense NGC already grades their own graded coins with their "Star" designation. A star is printed next to the grade. To quote NGC:

 

"The Star Designation is NGC’s unique identifier of coins with exceptional eye appeal or characteristics that distinguish them from other coins of the same technical grade."

 

I think PCGS may have similar?

[mintcollector]

I was actually waiting for someone to bring this up eventually. I am a coin collector, so I will give my take on 'CAC' and some of the differences in coin collecting vs. comic book collecting.

 

First, it should be known that I like CAC. They do provide an excellent service because they are very trustworthy and have become 'accepted' in the coin collecting field. This is a controversial statement to say the least; as some collectors do not prefer CAC. When buying classic US gold coins; CAC is a must, in my opinion.

 

Second, coins are different (in my opinion) than comic books. While I love both hobbies; those that know me from the NGC side of this forum (and PMG for my paper money collecting); will tell you that I am very obsessive over the quality of coins I buy. Personally, and this is controversial to some; I do NOT like toning (I look at it like damage to the surface of a coin). This poses a challenge for someone like me; as I only really get to buy (if I am lucky) two to five coins a year that fit my high standards. Toning has become the 'norm.' I prefer 'natural' coins the best (as do a lot of other collectors), but I will not buy an overly 'toned' coin.

 

That being said, one must also understand that over-grading WAS and possibly still is (depending on who you ask) rampant in the coin collecting fields. This is where CAC comes in. During the peak coin years of the last few decades a lot of coins suffered from 'gradeflation' (sic). Add in the fact that no two NGC or PCGS '66' graded coins look alike; and one coin see why a service like this is needed...for that industry. Most, if not all coins will tarnish, tone, and 'spot' over time. CAC can assure you are getting an accurate grade and what an unbiased third party thinks of the coin in question.

 

Comic books, in my opinion are different. While appearance and presentation are everything (and just as important as the overall grade); I do not see comic book collectors supporting an idea like this. Just look at the difference of opinions on CGC; from within the hobby.

 

I view coin collecting as a very 'patient' hobby that rewards the 'patient' collector or investor. I would not be able to find a lot of the coins I want to buy, just due to my high standards. I have these same high standards for comic books, paper money, toys, and other antiques and collectibles; but do not spend the same amount of time and patience when it comes to them; as I do coins. Again, this is only my opinion. I am sure other coin collectors on this forum would be more than happy to give you their opinion as well.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

'mint'

[comicdonna]

So they grade an already graded coin? Who's going to start grading CAC graded stuff? Amazing

 

In a sense NGC already grades their own graded coins with their "Star" designation. A star is printed next to the grade. To quote NGC:

 

"The Star Designation is NGC’s unique identifier of coins with exceptional eye appeal or characteristics that distinguish them from other coins of the same technical grade."

 

I think PCGS may have similar?

This coin has two designations.

 

 

 

[Buzzetta]

The problem with encapsulated comics is that they are not like baseball cards or coins where interiors are hidden by the encapsulation device. There is a certain amount of "trust" when it comes to graded comics.

[Timely]

I think CAC for comics would work, and here is why.

 

With comics, there are literally 1000 different defects that can be on a comic in a 1000 different ways. You multiply those 1000 defects by the 1000 different combinations those defects can appear on a comic and now you have 1,000,000 possible defect combinations that could appear on a comic.

 

Now, with the current grading system there are 25 grades from .5 to 10 to place those books with those 1,000,000 different defect possibilities. It is quite an impossible task! Even in a perfect grading world, there will always be books that "look wrong" when compared to other books of the same grade. There will always be a 9.4 out there that looks way better than another 9.4, yet both are the same technical 9.4 grade.

 

EXAMPLE:

 

Take a look at the 2 scans below. Both are the same issue in the same technical grade. If I was a CAC type service, I would probably give the 1st Action #1 a sticker. It looks better than most other 2.5 copies out there. The 2nd Action #1 would be rejected, as it looks worse than most.

 

 

 

 

This is why CAC will work for comics, just as it did for coins.

At first, the coin hobby did not even realize they needed this service.

A coin grading company that grades coins already graded? That sounds nuts!

Well, now CAC is an critical part of the coin hobby and the prices received for CAC coins versus non-CAC coins shows the need and desire for the service.

What CAC does is simply point out the better examples of a given coin and grade.

Just like coins, you need the right guy doing it for comics, someone who has the experience and knowledge to make it successful.

[mkman123]

Thanks all for the replies!!!

 

Timely, I agree with you, the 1st Action Comics looks far better! Imagine a newby in the comic scene, he/she might buy the 2nd comic and not know that its a low end 2.5 with issues

[PovertyRow]

 

Take a look at the 2 scans below. Both are the same issue in the same technical grade. If I was a CAC type service, I would probably give the 1st Action #1 a sticker. It looks better than most other 2.5 copies out there. The 2nd Action #1 would be rejected, as it looks worse than most.

 

I wouldn't give special consideration to the 1st book. The notation reads "Front & back cover re-attached with tape on entire spine of interior cover."

 

From the description it sounds like the cover may actually have been split in two and then re-taped.

 

I'm sure that book would have graded higher without that, so we are looking at something not unlike a Qualified grade.

 

Since it got a blue label, it is probably cellophane tape that was used. An archival seal of that extent should have gleaned a Slight (P) Restored grade. And cello tape is destructive over the long term.

 

I think more than just straight appearance has to be taken into consideration for a CAC type sticker. I can't see rewarding a book that has been taped together like that.

 

But that is another example of the many potential issues in comics you don't find in coins.