(CBLDF) To defend Alan Moore's NEONOMICON in South Carolina

[heliosten]

First let me state I haven't read the graphic novel and have no idea what it is about.

 

After watching the video I am just poleaxed that this mother feels that there is anyone other than herself to blame. This comes from the uniquely American view that comics=children. The book was where it belonged, the child was where she didn't belong. I've read enough of Alan Moore's books to know that some of his stuff just doesn't belong in the hands of children.

[shrunkenhead]

First let me state I haven't read the graphic novel and have no idea what it is about.

 

After watching the video I am just poleaxed that this mother feels that there is anyone other than herself to blame. This comes from the uniquely American view that comics=children. The book was where it belonged, the child was where she didn't belong. I've read enough of Alan Moore's books to know that some of his stuff just doesn't belong in the hands of children.

 

Absolutely. I don't want the library system policed by Moms of America.

 

And I find it interesting that the book's consideration of racism isn't even mentioned in the "news" story. That seems to be a hot-button issue for nobody. Instead, let's just focus on the pictures of naked butts.

 

[heliosten]

Instead, let's just focus on the pictures of naked butts.

 

Well, that seems to be the American way these days. God forbid Li'l Johnnie sees a breast, but parents don't have any problems with him seeing someone getting their head blown off. Amazing.

 

Not to get too far off-topic but there was a movie released recently called God Bless America by none other than Bobcat Goldthwait. This movie is one of the finest critiques of American culture that I've ever seen. It is the best movie I've seen this year and pretty much states my opinion of American society. You can see it on Amazon Prime (you have to pay), but it will be released on Blu-Ray June 26. This movie isn't for everyone, it is violent, it makes you think and it is dark, dark, dark. If you liked World's Greatest Dad or Sleeping Dogs Lie, this movie blows both of those away, literally.

[Sal]

Well, while I think the parent in this case was perhaps a bit lazy, she's not foaming at the mouth, asking for the library to remove the book.

 

She was asking for the lazy way out, which isn't all that unexpected in modern America. "Just give me the Cliff's Notes to the dang thing, I ain't got time to friggin read it or nothing. You tell me if that's something I should let my kid read, I got some television to watch and some Internets to surf."

 

But in the censorship continuum, this isn't exactly the - now see what I am about to do here - 1933 Wartburg festival or nothin

 

You mean a sign that says "Adult Section of the Library" is not enough?

 

 

It's a public library in South Carolina. "Adult Section" does not mean "XXX." It means "Not Dr. Seuss." I hope when my son is 14, he'll be reading books that were written for Adults

[VintageComics]

Well, while I think the parent in this case was perhaps a bit lazy, she's not foaming at the mouth, asking for the library to remove the book.

 

She was asking for the lazy way out, which isn't all that unexpected in modern America. "Just give me the Cliff's Notes to the dang thing, I ain't got time to friggin read it or nothing. You tell me if that's something I should let my kid read, I got some television to watch and some Internets to surf."

 

But in the censorship continuum, this isn't exactly the - now see what I am about to do here - 1933 Wartburg festival or nothin

 

You mean a sign that says "Adult Section of the Library" is not enough?

 

 

It's a public library in South Carolina. "Adult Section" does not mean "XXX." It means "Not Dr. Seuss." I hope when my son is 14, he'll be reading books that were written for Adults

 

 

Won't those same adult books have romance novels with descriptions of explicit (I mean, real, regular) sex in them?

 

 

[Sal]

Well, while I think the parent in this case was perhaps a bit lazy, she's not foaming at the mouth, asking for the library to remove the book.

 

She was asking for the lazy way out, which isn't all that unexpected in modern America. "Just give me the Cliff's Notes to the dang thing, I ain't got time to friggin read it or nothing. You tell me if that's something I should let my kid read, I got some television to watch and some Internets to surf."

 

But in the censorship continuum, this isn't exactly the - now see what I am about to do here - 1933 Wartburg festival or nothin

 

You mean a sign that says "Adult Section of the Library" is not enough?

 

 

It's a public library in South Carolina. "Adult Section" does not mean "XXX." It means "Not Dr. Seuss." I hope when my son is 14, he'll be reading books that were written for Adults

 

 

Won't those same adult books have romance novels with descriptions of explicit (I mean, real, regular) sex in them?

 

 

I have a feeling the library you're going to is different from the libraries in South Carolina, for some reason

[chrisco37]

 

Classic modern parenting....it's everyone else's fault.

 

(worship)

 

That's how I do it.

 

Next on my kids reading list is "The Boys". With a title like that, it's gotta be about kids, right?

[VintageComics]

I have a feeling the library you're going to is different from the libraries in South Carolina, for some reason

 

I'll be honest, I haven't been in a public library in years that I can remember. I'm pretty sure that adult romance novels will have graphic (written) imagery of love making in them though and I'd expect to find more than a few books in a library with that sort of content, wouldn't you?

 

Or is sex completely forbidden in all library content?

[comix4fun]

 

Classic modern parenting....it's everyone else's fault.

 

(worship)

 

That's how I do it.

 

Next on my kids reading list is "The Boys". With a title like that, it's gotta be about kids, right?

 

 

It's the graphic novel equivalent of "Boy's Life", right?

[shrunkenhead]

 

Classic modern parenting....it's everyone else's fault.

 

(worship)

 

That's how I do it.

 

Next on my kids reading list is "The Boys". With a title like that, it's gotta be about kids, right?

 

 

It's the graphic novel equivalent of "Boy's Life", right?

 

And I hear Lost Girls is a sequel to Little Women, I think?

[Theagenes]

I thought it was one of the better things that Moore has done in recent years. Of course I've read a lot of HPL so I got all the references and thought it was an interesting take on the Mythos. I can see how if you're not familiar with HPL it might not make much sense.

 

As for the parents censorship issue, this is a public library, not a school library. The book was in the adult section. Get over it. If you're easily offended by certain language or depictions of sexuality then the onus is on you to check out what your kids are reading. Of course this is South Carolina we're talking about so I'm surprised no one's complained about these Cthulhu comic books being the work of the devil.

[Sal]

I have a feeling the library you're going to is different from the libraries in South Carolina, for some reason

 

I'll be honest, I haven't been in a public library in years that I can remember. I'm pretty sure that adult romance novels will have graphic (written) imagery of love making in them though and I'd expect to find more than a few books in a library with that sort of content, wouldn't you?

 

Or is sex completely forbidden in all library content?

 

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make, but I'm also pretty sure this is my fault.

 

All I am saying is that in this particular instance, the mom's behaviour, while lazy, isn't terribly ridiculous. All a society can do in these sort of things is take it on a case-by-case basis; no one is advocating going through the entire library and eradicating all suspect content...unless that happened later in the story, I had to stop watching due to overwhelming ennui about two-thirds in

[comix4fun]

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make, but I'm also pretty sure this is my fault.

 

 

 

That's exactly how I start most conversations with my wife.

[Prince Namor]

...As in most of these cases, the real issue for taxpayers is whether or not public funds can or should be used to provide "free" access to this sort of thing through a public institution (many of which are working with increasingly limited resources to begin with), which in turn means that the issue for trustees and administrators is whether or not their government funding remains at beneficial levels....

 

Yep. That's pretty much where it's headed.

[Prince Namor]

I have a feeling the library you're going to is different from the libraries in South Carolina, for some reason

 

I'll be honest, I haven't been in a public library in years that I can remember. I'm pretty sure that adult romance novels will have graphic (written) imagery of love making in them though and I'd expect to find more than a few books in a library with that sort of content, wouldn't you?

 

Or is sex completely forbidden in all library content?

 

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make, but I'm also pretty sure this is my fault.

 

All I am saying is that in this particular instance, the mom's behaviour, while lazy, isn't terribly ridiculous. All a society can do in these sort of things is take it on a case-by-case basis; no one is advocating going through the entire library and eradicating all suspect content...unless that happened later in the story, I had to stop watching due to overwhelming ennui about two-thirds in

 

It's always interesting to see people from other countries, even as close by as Canada, seem puzzled by this sort of thing, that most of us here understand as a way of life in certain parts of America.

Not taking sides. Totally understand how Roy would see this as strange, and Sal would see it as not surprising at all, because of where it happened.

[mikenyc]

Can anyone make a valid argument as to why that particular title should be in a publicly funded institution?

 

Why would the CBLDF choose to defend this book when it depicts our hobby in a horrible light. The gratuitous rape and murder and torture may not espouse the public's support.

 

 

[drakesfuture]

Why is this such a big deal.

 

We're not talking about something pretty blase.

 

Neonomicon is fairly out there.

 

In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find something like it in most libraries.

I bet most people posting were shocked when they heard this was actually in a public library.

 

This isn't about censorship or bad parenting. It's about commonly applied practical thinking. No on would ever expect something of that content in a public library, so no parent should be on the lookout....in the same way I don't have to view every football game my kid watches to make sure he doesn't see porn while watching a game (shouldn;t have to....it's football.)

She shouldnt have to...it's a public library.

 

If a library is going to provide material that crosses the commonly held thoughts of what libraries usually provide...then they need to put a much larger warning than they normally would.

 

There is nothing wrong with neonomicon. Just like there isn't anything wrong with porn. It just isn't what someone normally expects in a library...so something more in terms of warning is fully acceptable. removing it from the library also isn't too much to ask, as the book is still easily obtainable by other means.

[comix4fun]

Why is this such a big deal.

 

We're not talking about something pretty blase.

 

Neonomicon is fairly out there.

 

In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find something like it in most libraries.

I bet most people posting were shocked when they heard this was actually in a public library.

 

This isn't about censorship or bad parenting. It's about commonly applied practical thinking. No on would ever expect something of that content in a public library, so no parent should be on the lookout....in the same way I don't have to view every football game my kid watches to make sure he doesn't see porn while watching a game (shouldn;t have to....it's football.)

She shouldnt have to...it's a public library.

 

If a library is going to provide material that crosses the commonly held thoughts of what libraries usually provide...then they need to put a much larger warning than they normally would.

 

There is nothing wrong with neonomicon. Just like there isn't anything wrong with porn. It just isn't what someone normally expects in a library...so something more in terms of warning is fully acceptable. removing it from the library also isn't too much to ask, as the book is still easily obtainable by other means.

 

 

 

You mean the same libraries that people have been using to look up porn since they started offering web access?

 

You are right that it's out there, but I am going to have a problem with allowing someone, anyone, to have the power to decide what belongs in a library and what doesn't based on something as vague as "out there". People have used vague terms, and gut feelings to try and censor what is publicly available for decades.

 

A warning is already on the book, and the book was in the adult section. The girl's mother had to SIGN THE BOOK OUT FOR HER because it was tagged as adult material.

 

In that sense you are wrong, it's all about bad parenting. If she wanted it out of her kids reach all she had to do was NOT sign it out for her and perhaps, flip the book over and see the "mature material" label on it.

 

I can't excuse lazy parenting (that's what this is) and lay it on the library system to do what parents should be doing all along.

[Ryan.]

Why is this such a big deal.

 

We're not talking about something pretty blase.

 

Neonomicon is fairly out there.

 

In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find something like it in most libraries.

I bet most people posting were shocked when they heard this was actually in a public library.

 

This isn't about censorship or bad parenting. It's about commonly applied practical thinking. No on would ever expect something of that content in a public library, so no parent should be on the lookout....in the same way I don't have to view every football game my kid watches to make sure he doesn't see porn while watching a game (shouldn;t have to....it's football.)

She shouldnt have to...it's a public library.

 

If a library is going to provide material that crosses the commonly held thoughts of what libraries usually provide...then they need to put a much larger warning than they normally would.

 

There is nothing wrong with neonomicon. Just like there isn't anything wrong with porn. It just isn't what someone normally expects in a library...so something more in terms of warning is fully acceptable. removing it from the library also isn't too much to ask, as the book is still easily obtainable by other means.

 

-1.

 

So who gets to decide what's out there and what isn't? Censorship =

[Prince Namor]

If we allow someone to choose what we can and can not see, then who do we trust to do that?

Who watches the watchmen?

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist.