How did I get here?

[etanick]

Saturday afternoon...usually the one time a week my wife takes care of my son and give me some alone time. She went to lunch with friends with all the kids and then they will all go see the new movie Hotel Transylvania. I thought about tagging along because I do want to see that movie also but it is my once a week free time so I stayed home and organize/read my horror comic books instead. I will likely need to run another mega sale thread by the end of the year to clear out about another 1000 books. Mostly likely the bronze superheroes stuff I still have left over from buying that one big collection. I just need one last push to rid of them all. I decided to keep one #1 issue of each title and/or key book(s) but the rest need to go.

 

I didn't really think about collecting #1 ever but now that I look at what I have left, why not keep one of each? sure, Red Sonja #1, Battlestar Galactica #1, or Logan Run #1 aren't all that important or valuable but they are fun to have now that I sorted them and kept the best copy for myself.

 

Bronze era books may never be worth much as they did back in 2007/2008 (peak of the crazy bronze market?) but no doubt I think they are extremely fun to read. I need to make time to read up on some titles I have never read before...like Defenders, top of the list to read. I never even bought a Defenders book other than the Marvel Feature #1 years ago...I need to dig it out and read after this post. It was part of a collection I bought and I have never even open it I didn't even know I had it until last year when I dug out that collection from storage to sell.

 

As mentioned, since my return to the hobby in 2009, the horror genre has become more of a focus so here is a group shot I took a few minutes ago of some high grade #1 horror I have today. Missing are Dark Mansion, Weird War Tales, Man-thing, Werewolf by Night and Swamp Thing. There are so many more but those five #1 are on the top of my wish list as far as horror books are concerned....it might take a while since I am searching for raw books. I am slowly backing away completely on buying slabs. Sure, I will still look to buy slabbed key books to prevent buying restored books but for the non mega books, the days of wasting money buying slabs and then cracked them out is long gone for me. Only one of the 6 in the pic below is a slabbed book, the rest came from patience search

 

 

sweet centering heh? not perfect but oh so nicccce...good enough for me my precious.

 

how about white PQ for those books also

 

I can't say enough about finding sweet presenting 9.2 to 9.4 that can look amazing in Mylars.

 

I have some reading to do now

[vaillant]

You will see that the Defenders aren’t just fun, but touching, meaningful and (more than often) uplifting. Especially as Steve Gerber took on the writing chores, but some of the David Anthony Kraft issues are also amazing, and of course the long run of J.M. DeMatteis reserve more than a pleasant surprise (you have to get past the not-so-lively artwork from Don Perlin, but hey, he was probably doing his best).

[etanick]

I am so busy this week and next week that I haven't had a chance to start reading the Defenders run yet but hopefully when things calm down in a few weeks, I will kick back and enjoy those books (thumbs u.

 

That being said, i do have a few minutes to waste...got to take a little break and geek out on comic books once a day

 

I want to chime in quickly on the topic of PQ. Most of us prefer nicer PQ...yes? but many of us are seduced by the label most of the time when it comes bot both grades and PQ. Now that I am off the slab chasing train, I can honestly say that other than snow white PQ, often I think using the info on the label is nothing but WAG. I won't be paying much for premium for white PQ because the difference between white or ow/w is so tiny if any at all in many cases that I WILL NOT pay premium. Heck, I will provide plenty of examples to show why I think label chasing when it comes to PQ is NOT FOR ME.

 

The pics below are books that I submitted back in March of this year that also showcased in the Contest I ran.

 

First up, snow white, no mistake about it. I used the same book as the base for comparison. The book on the bottom for each pic is a 1978 Spectacular Spiderman.

 

First up, a Marvel Team UP #16 from 1973...no doubt Snow white PQ and CGC agreed

 

 

 

next up...Tales of Asgard #1...not snow white but white enough that I was 100% confident that the book will get white PQ and CGC agreed

 

 

just one more to illustrate that white does come in many shades..Avengers 38. Once again CGC agreed that it is white.

 

 

Once you move away from White only...oh boy, it is one big mess

 

I will post 5 pics below and the answer key to the PQ of each will be at the end.

 

1) ASM 45

 

2) X-MEN 7

 

3) ASM 61

 

4) SILVER SURFER 1

 

5) MARVEL PREMIERE 15

 

 

what CGC said

1) ow to w

2) ow to w

3) crm to ow

4) crm of ow

5) ow

 

Seriously, i need new glasses but 3 & 4, both cream to ow PQ is nicer than 2 & 5. I thought if any of the book above deserve cream to ow, it might have been X-men #4. Anyone disagree?

 

So what does this mean to me? don't ignore a slab with cream to ow PQ just because it says that in the DAMN LABEL. I think there has always been a heated debate each time the topic of PQ and label chasing/premium surfaced on the forum. I love nice PQ also but hell yes, sell me any nice books with the crm/ow label at a discount 24/7 if crm to ow looks like #3 and #4 above.

 

White only is not that consistent either. That book that I used for the base above came from the one high grade bronze collection I bought long ago. All the books are stored together for decades. Often, I have multiple copies of each book and I subbed many duplicates to sell and out of 500 plus books, 2 came back with less than white only PQ...duh. I bet if I cracked those 2 outs and compared them with the rest, they will look identical and snow white. In the end, I enjoyed nice PQ absolutely, but to be snobbish about the PQ issue is really silly if you have seen the wide variety of shades that I have seen first hand and how CGC is all over the places with them. Like grading, it is NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE.

 

"Buy the book, not the label" goes beyond that number on the top left, you should pay less attention to that PQ lettering also.

 

 

[vaillant]

So you already got the Defenders?

 

Wow, those white pages (the first examples) are awesome, but I think you are right about on how often seller mis-describe a book with "off-white" pages while it’s darker. I think i do not have many books.

3) isn’t definitely "cream", are at worst it‘s white/off-white.

 

Very disappointing, where can I buy an OWL card?

[etanick]

not yet...they all should be here next week. (thumbs u

 

indeed, #3 was one of the bigger shock for me...not that it mattered much in the big picture but when I saw the cream/ow PQ designation on the slab, I did do a double take because that was nothing but silly on top of what they gave the X-men #4. Could it be a human error in entering the data when the labels were produced? possibly but I won't be the one putting more money into CGC's pocket to find out.

 

[vaillant]

Did you end up buying low-to-mid grade readers or better copies? Well, if you bought the whole run I hope you had a deal. I think you should sip them slowly, as they were coming out right now. Make believe they are coming out monthtly, or at least bi-weekly, so you’ll really enjoy them…

 

What annoys me is, despite CGC possible lack of imprecision in describing PQ, that being in Italy I can’t see a book before buying it.

And since I constantly try to spend the less possible, or at least not to overpay books, to save on shipping and customs charges, I am very annoyed when I see a book I would like to buy but know nothing about its PQ.

 

Even more important than PQ, for me, is something which seems overlooked by most collectors, i.e. the printing quality of the insides. Especially: no ink smudge, and black ink coverage. Today I got some early bronze Spideys and some pages have all the print smudged. This sucks.

[vaillant]

BTW, your books shown in the pictures looks wonderful in grade, what a beauty!

 

Whenever I will have some book I particularly care about, I will ask you to look for it on my behalf!

[etanick]

If you like those books, you might enjoy the one below...staying on the theme of PQ

 

I went back last night and went thru the silver age books to see if I can find the OLDEST high grade SILVER AGE book with nice PQ and for now I think this one is the nicest one I have. 1963 with ow/w PQ? definitely not white but somewhere between ow and w or if CGC has a brain freeze, then we might be seeing cream to ow

 

I had a run of TOA from 50 to 101 and it just happened that the nicest one is the first one, 80% of the run is tanned and browned sadly. I tried to sell most of them with little luck last year.

 

 

Perhaps the nicest hi grade WHITE page Silver Age I have raw is this one. Bought this long ago and loving the Kirby goodness, even with Colletta not so great inking job.

 

 

here is the PQ. I sold most of my Thor Silver age slabs this year and all I have left are raw books.

 

[vaillant]

Wow etan, they are beautiful, and – what a coincidence! – you picked one of my favorites Gian Man & Wasp stories (and one of the last ones by Kirby, I think), and Ant Man’s Tales to Astonish has been one of the very first titles I dreamed about when the idea of collecting american original editions was mostly – well – a dream!

 

I used to browse those wonderful cover images (since Ant/Giant-Man was a backup feature in Italy I hardly had the occasion to see the original Kirby covers featuring him, besides those few early Avengers ones) on the Overstreet price guide, around 1989-90, and the prices were… so out of reach.

When a few years later, thanks to Joseph Koch and Gary Dolgoff, I got my very first Tales to Astonish I was amazed. The rarified atmosphere on some of the early Ant-Mans made up for the shortness and occasional lack of richness and complexity of the stories. The stories were simple, but they had substance, nonetheless, and the overall quality was provided by the art as much as by the text. Lee+Kirby+the other early Marvel artists = awesome craft!

 

I have that #50 in nice grade, too. As I go by with the FF, I think I will post my TtA in the PGM section as well.

 

I’m no big fan of early Thor books, and unfortunately Colletta wasn’t so fitted to Jack‘s style, but there are "pieces of History" there as well. The High Evolutionary issue is a book I’d love to have in better grade. Mine is a G- at best…

 

Thanks for showing the page quality of those, it’s just great!

[etanick]

cool...glad you like TTA also and I also like the early TTA more than the later issues. My favorite cover though for the series is #98. I have been looking for a high grade copy for that book for quite sometimes. I adore that all blue cover.

 

I bought that Thor 126 long ago not knowing it was the first in the series or how it links to JIM. I bought that book more because of the year 1966. When I started to tip my toes in the Silver Age, I did focus on 1966 because I thought it would be neat to start at the year I was born. I didn’t have a plan to buy every book in 1966 but I definitely paid more attention to that year.

 

Looking back at 1981 when I first discovered American comics, I knew so little about the entire hobby that it was kind of refreshing to approach collecting with zero preconceived ideas or influences....if that make any senses? I knew so little about any characters or anything about the writers or artists...so all my purchases in those early years have everything of what appealed to me as far as artists, writers or/and characters. What were popular or cool or will appreciated didn't matter.

 

I loved Byrne right off the bat as mentioned earlier in this thread so I naturally bought FF. One artist that caught my eye early on was Kirby. I had zero idea of his contribution to the hobby. What drawn to me in 1982 was my first look at Captain Victory. I don't know about anyone else, but back then I thought the arts/coloring of that series were outstanding. I might be in the minority but I thought his work with Royer for that title was top notch. Sure his writings weren't great but that didn't matter. I remember seeing those early issues of Captain Victory in the discount bins at my LCS and thought his style was so unique and cool that I wanted to buy those books. Captain Victory came out in 1981 and it was a bimonthly title so by the time I discovered that book in 82, I think 1 to 3 were sitting in the discount bins. As with Walt Simonson and Bill Sienkiewicz with Thor 337 and NM 18, those books were love at first sight for both of those artists....Captain Victory hooked me on Kirby for life.

 

It wasn't until 1983 or so that I fully understood the scope of Kirby's contributions. I need to dig out those Captain Victory books to read again now that I writing about them. I think if I started collect in the 60's, my reaction to Kirby would be the same. Not everyone love his style but for me, I love it. I have been hunting for Kirby's OA for a few years now and the prices are just outrageously high. I will keep trying but landing a splash page or a cover will take a whole lot of manning up.

 

For now I will settle for this page. Fairly affordable because Captain America is not in it but I really like the actions and Chic Stone's work with Kirby. Joe Sinnot is also great for Kirby but I will pick Royer as my favorite.

 

[vaillant]

Hi etanick, it’s great to hear your stories and early contacts with the Marvel age.

I am ashamed to say that I have yet to start reading your story towards the beginning of your journal, here, I’d love to do so.

 

A short note about Captain Victory (I have the series but never read it) is that the earliest issue are really well drawn, with top work by Royer inking, but little by little the drawings start to get distorted, due to the worsening of Jack’s eyes problems. This is chronicled well in the Mark Evanier biography. Jack started to suffer from problems to his eyes pretty early, but in the beginning he was able to compensate in drawing the figures taking somehow into account the distortion introduced by the illness, and inkers who already were familiar with his style details were able to help too. On Captain Victory I think the situation truly worsened when he started to employ Michael Thibodeaux, a (then) young inker to whom he wished to give work. I think he was unable to reinforce the weaknesses of Jack's pencil, and then everything went pretty downhill (see Silver Star or the mid-1980s works).

[etanick]

thanks for the insight on Jack (thumbs u

 

I need to get Mark's book. It has been in my Amazon wish list for sometimes now.

 

I dug out Thor 127 also and scanned it. As with any Marvel age book from the Silver age thru the Bronze, centering was a constant problem with many issues. I don't think there is a time frame where it is worse or better. Marvel Silver age books are very often miswrap left to wright where the "M" of Marvel are often cut off on the top left side and/or the "1" of the 12 cents are cut off.

 

the 126 I posted a few days back suffered that miswrap and the 127 below is much better. Close to perfect really. I took a shot of the 127 and 126 side by side on both the front and back to see. I really enjoyed Kirby's work on the Thor's covers and his JIM's earlier work is fantastic also. Just my opinion but I felt his cover'r run with Thor is superior to his run many of the other Silver age Marvel titles. I am talking about covers only here

 

didn't take an interior shot but you can guess the PQ inside is nice based on the pages peaking out

 

side by side with the 126

 

as all silver age collectors have to deal with constantly, the bad miswrap.

 

I got a chuckle this week with the intro of CVA and I am sure if you follow CG(Comic General) regularly, you likely stumbled into that discussion.

 

Here is my 2 cents, I think the idea failed RIGHT NOW due to the fact that the definition and intent of the entire concept is geared more toward books that have potentials of upgrade. I am a cynic so I think it is no more than a way to encourage bidders to bid up a higher price on a book because there is a potential of upgrading. Basically we now have a service that grades the grades...but hey, I will let the market speaks for itself. If the slabs with the CVA stickers ended up with higher than EXPECTED prices in the next few auctions, then you know what the rest of the market think. The general concensus on the board is not so positive about the entire idea but this board is a small part of the collecting hobby.

[vaillant]

I’d like to get back and talk about the covers, but right now I am going out and I have seen I have been spending too much time looking around for comics in the next weeks, so I wish to moderate a lot in the upcoming ones…

 

Don’t know what CVA is but I will get to know, I suppose…

[etanick]

Here is a recommendation....for those that like to read...enjoy. I love reading this kid of stuff.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6075416&fpart=1

 

So 1983 was a big deal with Thor 337 and my intro to Walt Simonson. 1984 was also a bid deal when New Mutants 18 came out. Since I was a mutant fan, I did buy New Mutant #1 when it came out. The series until 18 wasn't a big deal for me. I wasn't all that impressed with the characters, arts, or stories but I can't recall the reason why I didn't stop after #1...perhaps the OCD collector in me wanting to buy all the mutant titles by then was the reason but looking back, I felt it was likely the biggest waste of money I spent at the time. When #18 arrived, I had the same excitement I did with Thor 337. The art direction was fresh, unique, and I love it. I couldn't pronounce the artist name but I was an immediate fan. I know many people like Bill Sienkiewicz more when his style resembled Neal Adams more but not me.

 

can't remember how many times I flipped thru this book..quite remarkable on the condition of the book today.

 

Naturally I started to look for Bill's older books and it was quite a surprise to see his transformation.

 

When it comes to Bill, unlike many other artists like Neal Adams, Jack Kirby, Frank Miller, or John Byrne....no one can ink his work in my opinion. Other artists in the their history have had fantastic coop with inkers that make their works exceptional. No one can argue that Terry Austin was made for John Byrne or Klaus Janson was made for Frank Miller.

 

I have the entire the Moon Knight first series from 1 to 38 so it was fun this past week to flip thru the the books again. Bill had a few different inkers including Klaus Janson in the early issues from 1 to 8. He started to ink his own work from 9 onward with the occasional filled in inker to help out but his transformation from a Neal Adams clone was fairly quick in my opinion. None of the inkers in that series did justice for his penciling in my opinion. As Neal Adams was born to draw Batman, Bill was born to draw Moon Knight. His covers on many of the issues are stunning. Here are some of my favorite.

 

the damn miswarp on this copy drives me nut

 

 

favorite of mine..simple yet pure awesomeness.

 

 

 

 

Bill can draw such beautiful body's motion, as well as Neal...perhaps one of my favorite 2 pages...stunning to me after all these years.

 

It was simple when I decided to get my first sketch as posted earlier in this thread...Bill was at the top of my list and unlike the usual Electra sketch that you normally see from Bill that other got, i am glad I went outside of the box and asked for a Wolverine sketch instead.

 

[vaillant]

I was totally enchanted by Louise Simonson’s New Mutants, and I also appreciated the X-Men at the time. It happened when I started purchasing books in english, since they were no longer published in italian. It was around 1987, and my first New Mutants was the 1986 Annual with the awesome Mojo story drawn by Alan Davis.

 

For a longtime reader like me, which the publisher's bankrupcy "freezed" around 1982, all the early original books I purchased were mysterious and fascinating. The New Mutants appeared as a truly brilliant idea to me, and although I did not read any issue before, I tried to figure out what happened.

Last time I left the X-Men, around 1981, the X-Men had barely fought Weapon Alpha. Where was Cyclops? Magneto redeemed? And all those New Mutants, in Alan Davis' rendition, were awesome. I immediately fell in love with the character of Warlock, and Doug Ramsey (Cypher), and when I started buying X-Men, X-Factor and the Fallen Angel mini-series, more pieces were put together.

(The whole Dark Phoenix seemed pretty nonsensical to me, and still is, so I pretty enjoyed the X-Factor, although the very first issues, which I purchased later on, were pretty dull.)

 

My first exposure to Sienkewicz happened when his drawing was in its "halfway" phase, in 1979 or so, as I read that awesome two-part story narrated both from the perspective of Spector and the Hulk, which was originally featured in the Hulk magazine in the USA. In Italy it was published on the same paper as the other books, just oversized, and featured Hulk-only material (don’t know how the original edition is, since I still have no Marvel 1970s original magazine).

That story was awesome and I must admit that I have yet to read Sienkewicz's New Mutants, since the b/w artwork does not make me crazy, as I was blown out more by Alan Davis, Bret Blevins and Jon Bogdanove, so my favorite Sienkewicz's style is his painted one.

 

Whenever you’ll read the Defenders you’ll see that the final issue prepares the ground for X-Factor #1, ruling out the Beast, the Angel and the Iceman which were late members. I have yet to read most of the issues between 100 and 152 myself.

[etanick]

X-factor was a very good read back in the days, especially when Simonson was drawing it and working with Louise. I thought the entire run with Apocalypse and the intro of Archangel story lines were fantastic. I would say I enjoyed reading X-factor more during this time than the X-men books. By 1986 and 1987, I was only buying X-men for the sake of just buying it...the stories and arts by then were not all the interesting to me any longer. I wished I kept my run of X-factor for reading sake but i gave them away along with my copper X-men, New Mutants, and X-force (yeah, bought that horrid title also...can't understand why since I never liked Lifield from day one) run to my nephew and other kids when I return to the hobby in 2009.

 

Once I returned and started to pay more attention to DC horror, I also paid some attentions to the war genre. Since the Viet Nam war has a special meaning to me, I focused more on books that deal with the war and to my surprise, there weren't as many books that focused on that war. More specifically, I looked for Viet Nam war related DC titles in 1966. Since I was born in 1966, I thought it would be neat to find books about the war that year...to see what others were writing about the war at the time when I was born. Add to the fact that I really only want to buy high grade, the tasks were even harder but I was happy to find a few.

 

Here in 1966 are few of my keepers, well centered, white pages, NM ...so hard to find, I am still looking for 101, 102, and 103....so far no luck but that is what the hunt is about. NO DOUBT, these are some of the nicest "old" DC books I own. I am a believer that back in those days, DC used superior paper stocks in both the covers and the interiors than Marvel did. Just my own guess is Marvel was the start up that didn't have the $$ to spend so Marvel books in the early silver age days as more "white" was used to cut cost on coloring as well as using inferior and cheaper paper stocks. Again, just my own speculations based on books I have. Holding these few books below next to my early Silver Age X-men and ASM in the same years and I can feel the difference. DC silver age books at least to me are less prone to have browning and tanning of the interior covers. They might have cream pages but often the interior cover is bone white.

 

 

 

 

perhaps the closest to my birthdate of November 1966 is this issue. 8.5 only and I have been looking for a better copy for a while with little luck.

 

interestingly, inside is an ad for this Detective book. I didn't pay much attention to the exact date of this book before but now that I learned it came out in November 1966, it is just a little more special.

 

I have no plan to buy every book published in November 1966 but i won't throw away any if I find them in NM shape.

[scooter99]

Stellar books as usual, Nick. I like the checkerboard tops that DC had back in the day.

 

 

 

 

[vaillant]

That’s very interesting about the early Vietnam war reflections, the book I bought from ken here is a Battlefront communist-related war issue from the 1950s. I’d like to know which books could be more meaningful as I still have to delve into the 1950s, so knowing about books reflecting the korean war and the vietnam war is very welcome. Although I have seen I prefer superhero books where the events have a resonance, instead of plain war-themed books.

 

I did not recall Iron Man's origins were related to Vietnam and espionage, and I have seen there is an advanced issue (around #90 IIRC) where Stark retells his origins which deals more directly with the conflictual element between the US and Vietnam. Did you read it? Is that a story worth to purchase?

[etanick]

thanks guys (thumbs u

 

indeed Iron Man's origin was with the Viet Nam war. I never owned much of the TOS issues so I haven't read much of that title. I really didn't learn about Iron Man's origin until 1984 when I stumbled across the fireside book "Origins of Marvel Comics" and "Sons of Origins" at my high school library. I must have read those 2 books weekly. That was my first exposure to many of Stan's creations. I loved all the origins, especially Daredevil....not a surprise since I love Batman's origin also....more real to me.

 

Although, I also love Iron Man's origin a lot, he failed to catch on with me as one of my favorites because he lack the GREAT protagonist(s) that I like.

 

Batman has Joker

X-men has Magneto

FF has Doom

Daredevil has Kingpin.

etc...

 

 

Back to the DC war books...I really enjoyed reading this genre since 2009. While it is not a focus of mine to collect them, I rarely turn down a chance to buy high grade Silver Age DC war books. Here are a few more...notice how the stories jumped from the Vietnam war from issues 100 to 107, from 108, the focus is back to WW2.

 

 

absolutely one of my favorite Kubert's Our Figting Force cover.

 

 

finding these issues along with the previous few issues were not an easy task and I have no plan to upgrade them. Try to find the missing issues is tough enough, no need find NM+ replacements...if you can find Silver Age DC books in 8.5 or better...be happy with them (thumbs u

[vaillant]

I believe Magneto was handled really bad from some point on. He reformed, and that was great (you know to what I refer as you were reading the X-Factor, X-Men and New Mutants at the time), then in an insufficiently thoughtful raptus they screwed up most of what has been adequately built, and X-Men became nonsense around the early 1990s, and it‘s not a coincidence it’s been the point where New Mutants turned into X-Force.

 

As for Kingpin, opposing him to Daredevil has been quite a late thing, it was very well crafted as an opponent to Spidey, then was excessively extremized, IMO, more or less like many aspects handled by Miller in his "rewriting" the character. I don’t like Miller’s Daredevil so much, mostly because after that it seemed he’s been him that "invented" Daredevil, which is not appropriate judgment.

 

I have rarely read Iron Man myself, but reading it now, I see how the lack of big opponents is compensated by how often the stories were well written. I am speaking of the early 1970s, as I was considering them.

I think it would be really cool to read those Iron Man with a vietnamese sensibility, I mean not you but someone which is not familiar with comics.