Dealer Rankings 2012

[Park]

Anyone have a link to the "shilling" issue bought into question a few pages back... or the validity of that accusation?

It was very valid. It was also never explained, AFAIK.

 

Matt Nelson was caught shilling auctions as arseman. He was then caught again when members found spectre52 auctions were being bid up by two accounts that had hundreds of eBay bids, >99.8% exclusively on spectre52 auctions.

No explanation was offered, save for telling one of his more outspoken critics that 'his moral compass was too tightly wound' and asking 'what had he done for the hobby?'

 

Right, and the third time was when VaCliff come on here and admitted he shill bid for Matt. As mentioned, that thread was recently deleted by CGC (the power of The Arse!), and this is all that is left of Cliff admitting to it in his own words:

 

"Sorry, no shill bidding here.

Have I bought books from Worldwide? Sure.

Have I bid and lost on books from Worldwide? Sure.

Did I give an explanation where someone could buy a book and it could then be in an auction house a few weeks later? Sure.

But don't let any of this get in the way of those whose minds are made up."

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4838292&Searchpage=1&Main=224547&Words=+vacliff&topic=0&Search=true

 

How is that shilling? He bids on WW books. Sometimes he wins and sometimes he loses. As long as he's paying for the books when he wins, how is that shilling?

 

Exactly, thank you for making my point for me. I could've shown you the evidence, right from VACliff's mouth (like when he said Matt contacts him and tells him what auctions need could be a bargain to bid on), but that thread was deleted. Like I said above, that quote is all that is left, all that is left to prove the thread even existed, and it's terribly out of context.

 

Edit: here's some more info from the thread that got that thread deleted:

 

"If I remember correctly (correct me if I don't) the situation we are discussing involved a friend of WW bidding up the auctions and not buying the comics he won. Instead WW sent them to CLink and sold them there. In this case the friend never had any intention of buying, the only reason for bidding was pushing the price up on other, serious bidders." - Monkeyman

 

"Not only that but he freely admitted that he shilled up books that were going for less than a desired price" - Oakman

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=5874936&Searchpage=1&Main=265718&Words=+Monkeyman&topic=0&Search=true

 

Still no Dr. Burt Hutt?

 

Lame.

 

Aw dude, I tried "Burt_the_Hutt" one day but it was deleted in 5 minutes!

 

 

I think they may be on to our foolproof scheme.

[comicwiz]

The Resurrection (Pat) pretty much sums it up on that cached link provided by BUTM:

 

So to stay on topic. The previous page has a complete layout, and the pages before show rather damning evidence of shilling of Spectre52 auctions (also known as worldwide comics). The closest to any type of comment on behalf of WWComics was Matt Nelson coming in and verbally attacking Flaming Telepath. Oh and VA Cliff admitting he bids on a large amount of books and has them sent to another venue to be auctioned again. VA Cliff is a helper at conventions for WW Comics and is apparently called and notified as to which books are selling extremely cheap so he may bid them up and flip on another venue.

 

And also according to Cliff it doesnt matter if anyone here stops buying because of this, as we are not big enough buyers to make a difference.

 

Please take the time to skim the thread and base your own opinion on what is being done. What I have posted is merely VA cliff notes.

 

namisgr also commented on vacliff in that same page:

 

Cliff is a comic collector, a good guy from my interactions with him at shows, and someone who helps Steve Ritter at his East Coast convention booths. Throwing bombs at the guy for defending his friends and colleagues isn't going to shed any more light on the possible shilling going on in Spectre52 auctions, no matter how defensive he comes across in his posts here.

 

He's one of us, and although he may be letting his anger and defensiveness show through in his posts, the personal attacks leveled at him most certainly don't reflect well on either the boards or the posters making them.

 

These are some long-standing boardie's named/involved in the original rendition of events, and regardless of whether vacliff's comments are contextual to the situation or not, I'm still reading 500clubs comment in this thread and recalling the questions raised being left unanswered.

[namisgr]

The Resurrection (Pat) pretty much sums it up on that cached link provided by BUTM:

 

So to stay on topic. The previous page has a complete layout, and the pages before show rather damning evidence of shilling of Spectre52 auctions (also known as worldwide comics). The closest to any type of comment on behalf of WWComics was Matt Nelson coming in and verbally attacking Flaming Telepath. Oh and VA Cliff admitting he bids on a large amount of books and has them sent to another venue to be auctioned again. VA Cliff is a helper at conventions for WW Comics and is apparently called and notified as to which books are selling extremely cheap so he may bid them up and flip on another venue.

 

And also according to Cliff it doesnt matter if anyone here stops buying because of this, as we are not big enough buyers to make a difference.

 

Please take the time to skim the thread and base your own opinion on what is being done. What I have posted is merely VA cliff notes.

 

namisgr also commented on vacliff in that same page:

 

Cliff is a comic collector, a good guy from my interactions with him at shows, and someone who helps Steve Ritter at his East Coast convention booths. Throwing bombs at the guy for defending his friends and colleagues isn't going to shed any more light on the possible shilling going on in Spectre52 auctions, no matter how defensive he comes across in his posts here.

 

He's one of us, and although he may be letting his anger and defensiveness show through in his posts, the personal attacks leveled at him most certainly don't reflect well on either the boards or the posters making them.

 

These are some long-standing boardie's named/involved in the original rendition of events, and regardless of whether vacliff's comments are contextual to the situation or not, I'm still reading 500clubs comment in this thread and recalling the questions being left unanswered.

 

What're you quoting me for, Wiz?

[comicwiz]

The Resurrection (Pat) pretty much sums it up on that cached link provided by BUTM:

 

So to stay on topic. The previous page has a complete layout, and the pages before show rather damning evidence of shilling of Spectre52 auctions (also known as worldwide comics). The closest to any type of comment on behalf of WWComics was Matt Nelson coming in and verbally attacking Flaming Telepath. Oh and VA Cliff admitting he bids on a large amount of books and has them sent to another venue to be auctioned again. VA Cliff is a helper at conventions for WW Comics and is apparently called and notified as to which books are selling extremely cheap so he may bid them up and flip on another venue.

 

And also according to Cliff it doesnt matter if anyone here stops buying because of this, as we are not big enough buyers to make a difference.

 

Please take the time to skim the thread and base your own opinion on what is being done. What I have posted is merely VA cliff notes.

 

namisgr also commented on vacliff in that same page:

 

Cliff is a comic collector, a good guy from my interactions with him at shows, and someone who helps Steve Ritter at his East Coast convention booths. Throwing bombs at the guy for defending his friends and colleagues isn't going to shed any more light on the possible shilling going on in Spectre52 auctions, no matter how defensive he comes across in his posts here.

 

He's one of us, and although he may be letting his anger and defensiveness show through in his posts, the personal attacks leveled at him most certainly don't reflect well on either the boards or the posters making them.

 

These are some long-standing boardie's named/involved in the original rendition of events, and regardless of whether vacliff's comments are contextual to the situation or not, I'm still reading 500clubs comment in this thread and recalling the questions being left unanswered.

 

What're you quoting me for?

 

The accusation that the person who shared this information might be a shill. After reading your post, I thought it was pertinent to establish someone here knew VACliff.

[namisgr]

The Resurrection (Pat) pretty much sums it up on that cached link provided by BUTM:

 

So to stay on topic. The previous page has a complete layout, and the pages before show rather damning evidence of shilling of Spectre52 auctions (also known as worldwide comics). The closest to any type of comment on behalf of WWComics was Matt Nelson coming in and verbally attacking Flaming Telepath. Oh and VA Cliff admitting he bids on a large amount of books and has them sent to another venue to be auctioned again. VA Cliff is a helper at conventions for WW Comics and is apparently called and notified as to which books are selling extremely cheap so he may bid them up and flip on another venue.

 

And also according to Cliff it doesnt matter if anyone here stops buying because of this, as we are not big enough buyers to make a difference.

 

Please take the time to skim the thread and base your own opinion on what is being done. What I have posted is merely VA cliff notes.

 

namisgr also commented on vacliff in that same page:

 

Cliff is a comic collector, a good guy from my interactions with him at shows, and someone who helps Steve Ritter at his East Coast convention booths. Throwing bombs at the guy for defending his friends and colleagues isn't going to shed any more light on the possible shilling going on in Spectre52 auctions, no matter how defensive he comes across in his posts here.

 

He's one of us, and although he may be letting his anger and defensiveness show through in his posts, the personal attacks leveled at him most certainly don't reflect well on either the boards or the posters making them.

 

These are some long-standing boardie's named/involved in the original rendition of events, and regardless of whether vacliff's comments are contextual to the situation or not, I'm still reading 500clubs comment in this thread and recalling the questions being left unanswered.

 

What're you quoting me for?

 

The accusation that the person who shared this information might be a shill. After reading your post, I thought it was pertinent to establish someone here knew VACliff.

 

To be clear, in that thread I let it be known that I had no idea whether VACliff was a shill or not. I did reveal that he knows the folks at Worldwide well and sometimes helps them with their booth at shows.

 

I still don't know about the shilling accusation against him. If he buys books being auctioned on E-Bay and flips them immediately thereafter, he's doing what a bunch of people do, including a slew of board members. If, on the other hand, he 'buys' and relists them without money ever changing hands, that's a whole different story, but I never did see proof of that unethical behavior.

[comicwiz]

The Resurrection (Pat) pretty much sums it up on that cached link provided by BUTM:

 

So to stay on topic. The previous page has a complete layout, and the pages before show rather damning evidence of shilling of Spectre52 auctions (also known as worldwide comics). The closest to any type of comment on behalf of WWComics was Matt Nelson coming in and verbally attacking Flaming Telepath. Oh and VA Cliff admitting he bids on a large amount of books and has them sent to another venue to be auctioned again. VA Cliff is a helper at conventions for WW Comics and is apparently called and notified as to which books are selling extremely cheap so he may bid them up and flip on another venue.

 

And also according to Cliff it doesnt matter if anyone here stops buying because of this, as we are not big enough buyers to make a difference.

 

Please take the time to skim the thread and base your own opinion on what is being done. What I have posted is merely VA cliff notes.

 

namisgr also commented on vacliff in that same page:

 

Cliff is a comic collector, a good guy from my interactions with him at shows, and someone who helps Steve Ritter at his East Coast convention booths. Throwing bombs at the guy for defending his friends and colleagues isn't going to shed any more light on the possible shilling going on in Spectre52 auctions, no matter how defensive he comes across in his posts here.

 

He's one of us, and although he may be letting his anger and defensiveness show through in his posts, the personal attacks leveled at him most certainly don't reflect well on either the boards or the posters making them.

 

These are some long-standing boardie's named/involved in the original rendition of events, and regardless of whether vacliff's comments are contextual to the situation or not, I'm still reading 500clubs comment in this thread and recalling the questions being left unanswered.

 

What're you quoting me for?

 

The accusation that the person who shared this information might be a shill. After reading your post, I thought it was pertinent to establish someone here knew VACliff.

 

To be clear, in that thread I let it be known that I had no idea whether VACliff was a shill or not. I did reveal that he knows the folks at Worldwide well and sometimes helps them with their booth at shows.

 

I still don't know about the shilling accusation against him. If he buys books being auctioned on E-Bay and flips them immediately thereafter, he's doing what a bunch of people do, including a slew of board members. If, on the other hand, he 'buys' and relists them without money ever changing hands, that's a whole different story, but I never did see proof of that unethical behavior.

 

After reading the page in that now pulled thread, I got the impression his off-hand comments were taken out of context (especially in this thread) and were said mostly because he was angered by the accusations. Because shilling has different meanings (i.e. a shill bidder versus a person creating a secondary profile or account on these boards) I was really just using the comment you made as a way to establish the guy actually existed in real life. Like you, I don't see any proof of unethical behaviour from whatever can be still read of his original comments.

[500Club]

Oh the irony.

 

A new member who joined 08/08/12 but whom has knowledge of the boards far beyond the usual noob ... cough, cough, shill ... talking about someone else acting as a shill.

He's not a shill per se; this is his only current account.

[500Club]

Anyone have a link to the "shilling" issue bought into question a few pages back... or the validity of that accusation?

It was very valid. It was also never explained, AFAIK.

 

Matt Nelson was caught shilling auctions as arseman. He was then caught again when members found spectre52 auctions were being bid up by two accounts that had hundreds of eBay bids, >99.8% exclusively on spectre52 auctions.

No explanation was offered, save for telling one of his more outspoken critics that 'his moral compass was too tightly wound' and asking 'what had he done for the hobby?'

 

Right, and the third time was when VaCliff come on here and admitted he shill bid for Matt.

I'll cross the floor here, and note that it was actually Steve Ritter that VAcliff said told him about books selling for below their expected value, IIRC. I found that to be a grey area, because cliff did seem to have honest intent to buy and flip these bargains.

[cheetah]

Anyone have a link to the "shilling" issue bought into question a few pages back... or the validity of that accusation?

It was very valid. It was also never explained, AFAIK.

 

Matt Nelson was caught shilling auctions as arseman. He was then caught again when members found spectre52 auctions were being bid up by two accounts that had hundreds of eBay bids, >99.8% exclusively on spectre52 auctions.

No explanation was offered, save for telling one of his more outspoken critics that 'his moral compass was too tightly wound' and asking 'what had he done for the hobby?'

 

Right, and the third time was when VaCliff come on here and admitted he shill bid for Matt.

I'll cross the floor here, and note that it was actually Steve Ritter that VAcliff said told him about books selling for below their expected value, IIRC. I found that to be a grey area, because cliff did seem to have honest intent to buy and flip these bargains.

 

Tangentially related, but I think Heritage also bids on books they think are going for a 'below market' price and then list them on Lewis Wayne Gallery at what they think it ought to sell for. Given the slow turnover of LWG books over the last few years, the dumping of inventory last Christmas, and the fewer number of new comics listed there, I think they learned that the prices established in their auctions was a better reflection of the books' value.