Me, the NOD, and regret.

[Larryw7]

I have forgotten that once upon a time we had some really great discussions and some very heated debates. There was alot of views from collectors here, and it led to alot of knowledge to be gained. I blame myself. Seriously, I do.. I have not posted much in quite some time, and with reason. What was I to post about? I am a friikin Jack Hole who was duped by people I thought were genuine in their beliefs, and destroyed something I BELIEVED in! If you do not know what I mean, I mean the NOD. While serving on the board, I voted in favor of this change to the CBCA. What for? The first things we did were destroy everything the NOD ever was and create another forum.. The CBCA did have it's heart in the right place, but it was too soft.

 

So here I sit, reading this thread. I remember there was more fire to me, and others.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=352319&fpart=1

 

And now we sit and discuss what? I really don't know, movies, investment potential? It just isnt the same..

 

To anyone who cares, accept my apology. I should have fought to keep the GOD, and expand upon it. But I didnt, and I regret it. To my fellow CBCA founders, I am sorry I had never spoken about this. But it was never my intention for the CBCA to be so soft, and once created my voice was lost.

 

And that is pretty much it. I feel better about getting this off my chest. But hopefully others understand what I am trying to say. I finally have the time again after a marriage, 2 children and a career change. But no fire..

 

 

Pat, I always thought you stood for honesty and disclosure. I don't think you should feel that you've failed at any point.

Despite it's noble ideals, NOD was doomed from the beginning. I haven't heard much from CBCA, its goals to help educate collectors had merit.

 

+1

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. I enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere these days.

It's so relaxed that I can now sit here and learn virtually nothing. There is so much knowledge here and nothing to spark any of it being shared. So relaxed as it may be, it is just a hangout. It used to be a place where people sared their views on what was happening in the hobby.

 

And I know you hated the NOD Jeff, and I was always fine with that. But I can't help but feel that the final tide of the pressing debates just pushed so many away. It was one thing to have pressing accepted, but so many do not and find no reason to disclose the work. So what I had figured all along is true. Dishonesty is rampant. And there are sooooo many crutched now on why they do not disclose, so what did we win? Ommittance.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. I enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere these days.

 

I didn't join until 2007 so I missed a lot of the early, heated discussions, but I find the boards rather boring lately.

 

You take from the boards what you put in.

You missed the last call buddy. When you joined it was all over already.

[bane]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. I enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere these days.

 

I didn't join until 2007 so I missed a lot of the early, heated discussions, but I find the boards rather boring lately.

 

You take from the boards what you put in.

You missed the last call buddy. When you joined it was all over already.

 

I was too busy on another forum.

 

Pat, I agree about disclosure as I have always been upfront with anything I bought. Anything disclosed to me about a book has always been passed on when I sell or consign.

[comicwiz]

Dishonesty is rampant. And there are sooooo many crutched now on why they do not disclose, so what did we win? Ommittance.

 

I think I was one of the ones who held some hope that NOD and/or CBCA would do something to better establish lines of accountability in this hobby. It just seemed that historically, the hobby's bad rap sheet is the thing that needed the most fixing if this hobby were to remain relevant.

 

What probably should have happened with these organizations was that some boundaries be created to call out off-side activity. More specifically, no matter whether you were a collector, PT or FT dealer, if you went off-side, you needed to be held accountable for your actions.

 

These boards were not only the awareness platform, but it seemed it also became a platform to mash-up ideas that couldn't be implemented in a formal or standardized way.

 

So while we got a PL and HOS, we also had threads go poof which seemed to relegate people outside of these boards to a different standard than what the rest of the community had to face when it came to dealing with missteps and more serious transgressions.

 

While disclosure is still an important part of how this hobby lays its ethical foundation, there are other equally important issues and topics which still linger and need to be addressed. I still think creating an association or using this community as a checkpoint to discuss these issues and raise concerns has merit, and maybe it's through these discussions that we can make the necessary improvements to take the hobby in the intended direction.

[GACollectibles]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. I enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere these days.

It's so relaxed that I can now sit here and learn virtually nothing. There is so much knowledge here and nothing to spark any of it being shared. So relaxed as it may be, it is just a hangout. It used to be a place where people sared their views on what was happening in the hobby.

 

And I know you hated the NOD Jeff, and I was always fine with that. But I can't help but feel that the final tide of the pressing debates just pushed so many away. It was one thing to have pressing accepted, but so many do not and find no reason to disclose the work. So what I had figured all along is true. Dishonesty is rampant. And there are sooooo many crutched now on why they do not disclose, so what did we win? Ommittance.

 

There may have been some great discussions, but too many of the discussions turned into uncivil situations as people were not tolerant of others opinions- it was their way or the highway. That's not positive discourse, and what you perceive as the lack of interesting discussions maybe is the maturity of the boards attempting not to devolve into those black holes of nonsense.

 

Or it's the calm before the storm.

[TheShadowKnows]

What we have now is more of the wild wild west."grading companies" going to shows,buying 8.5 slabs,cracking them out and presto 9.6.

Nobody seems to disclose anymore.Its great if you are a numbers chaser....

[seanfingh]

 

This thread is soft.

[worldofcomics-migration]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. .

 

You think you had it bad, it was 10x more frustrating for those on the side of honesty and disclosure.

[Dale Roberts]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. I enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere these days.

\

+1

 

Way too much wasted time and energy over something that means nothing in the overall scheme of things.

[seanfingh]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. .

 

You think you had it bad, it was 10x more frustrating for those on the side of honesty and disclosure.

 

That's more like it!

[worldofcomics-migration]

I don't necessarily agree with Pat. Back in those days, reading the boards could be a very frustrating experience. .

 

You think you had it bad, it was 10x more frustrating for those on the side of honesty and disclosure.

 

That's more like it!

 

Thought you'd like that :thumbsup:

[GACollectibles]

Whoa!

[blazingbob]

I don't believe that you should minimize a person's feelings about pressing. While Pat feels that CBCA is "soft" I felt that they should have focused on the bigger problem in this hobby which is that there is no standard of grading. More money is "gamed" by the lack of standardized grading and undisclosed restoration than pressing in my opinion.

 

And when people are doing this for "free" there is very little motivation. Sorry but there were opportunities for the CBCA to make money and change the hobby which frankly I would have no problem with.

 

As with anything there are a lot of "barstool" coaches which is exactly what we have in this hobby. Everybody talks a "good game" but when it comes to step up they want somebody else to do it.

[Foolkiller]

I don't believe that you should minimize a person's feelings about pressing. While Pat feels that CBCA is "soft" I felt that they should have focused on the bigger problem in this hobby which is that there is no standard of grading. More money is "gamed" by the lack of standardized grading and undisclosed restoration than pressing in my opinion.

 

And when people are doing this for "free" there is very little motivation. Sorry but there were opportunities for the CBCA to make money and change the hobby which frankly I would have no problem with.

 

As with anything there are a lot of "barstool" coaches which is exactly what we have in this hobby. Everybody talks a "good game" but when it comes to step up they want somebody else to do it.

 

When you say "no standard of grading" how exactly would we get everyone to accept the same standard. The closest thing is CGC or Overstreet, and even there we have disagreement.

[lizards2]

What we have now is more of the wild wild west."grading companies" going to shows,buying 8.5 slabs,cracking them out and pesto 9.6.

Nobody seems to disclose anymore.Its great if you are a numbers chaser....

Way to work Jeff Dunham into your routine, Dennis.

[blazingbob]

Grading is NOT subjective.

 

There are common things we all agree on.

 

Are Overstreet advisors taught how to grade? By who?

 

Ever read the Grading guide? What a contradicting publication. I gave up on it after a few pages.

 

I was taught by people how to grade. I continue to learn. There are dealers/collectors that frankly if people learned from would vastly improve their grading skills.

 

My discussions to CBCA were that courses be given by PAID instructors. Course materials written, books graded, feedback etc. Unless someone is totally full of themselves and think they are "unteachable" I thought it would be something very positive for the hobby. Imagine going to a convention for a "grading refresher course".

 

We are taught in almost all areas of our life. What makes the comic hobby any different?

 

Buying a table at a show and having a sign automatically makes people I know what I'm doing? Really folks? Did anybody ever ask a seller who taught them how to grade before they bought something?

[TheWatcher]

There may have been some great discussions, but too many of the discussions turned into uncivil situations as people were not tolerant of others opinions- it was their way or the highway.

 

This. There were more meaningful discussions back then because everything was new to the community. No one had any experience with slabbing or what may arise from it, and it led to far too many flame wars in the old days. Everybody and their brother had a shill to stir up when needed, let's no forget about that. Now, ten years later, so much of what's brought up is old hat for anyone that's been on the boards for longer than 4 or 5 years. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it means that the boards policing of the hobby has made it harder for people to get away with stuff. I consider that a positive

[Transplant]

I don't believe that you should minimize a person's feelings about pressing. While Pat feels that CBCA is "soft" I felt that they should have focused on the bigger problem in this hobby which is that there is no standard of grading. More money is "gamed" by the lack of standardized grading and undisclosed restoration than pressing in my opinion.

 

And when people are doing this for "free" there is very little motivation. Sorry but there were opportunities for the CBCA to make money and change the hobby which frankly I would have no problem with.

 

As with anything there are a lot of "barstool" coaches which is exactly what we have in this hobby. Everybody talks a "good game" but when it comes to step up they want somebody else to do it.

 

When you say "no standard of grading" how exactly would we get everyone to accept the same standard. The closest thing is CGC or Overstreet, and even there we have disagreement.

I think part part of the problem is that CGC is inconsistent, which I think we'll acknowledge they are from time to time. Also, there's no real transparency on the grading standard utilized by CGC.

 

Let me put my $.02 in here as well on the NOD. I was a member and I still proactively disclose any pressing on a book I sell. What I've realized though is that, instead of anyone caring about whether a book has been pressed, all that discussion did is create more pressers.

[blazingbob]

I agree with the below statement except I would add - Amateur pressers

 

Let me put my $.02 in here as well on the NOD. I was a member and I still proactively disclose any pressing on a book I sell. What I've realized though is that, instead of anyone caring about whether a book has been pressed, all that discussion did is create more pressers.