CGC Forum's TOP 100 Comic Covers of all Time - Proposal

[jbud73]

As some may or may not know, over on the Modern Board a forumite has been posting the covers to Wizards TOP 100 Covers of all time. Well lets just say that there has been some disagreement amongst the forum fathful, er well flaming would be more like it. Someone mentioned that we outta compile our own list. I thought that this was a great idea. I'm sure that the collective knowledge of this board is more than equal to that of Wizards - might wanna shoot a bit higher here.

 

Now there have been polls before best Spidey cover artist, BA cover etc etc, but the problem has been how to give equal weight to all eras, more or less and still get the coverage that would make for a comprehensive, well rounded list.

 

The first question obviously is criteria, but I think that that is an impossible equilibrium to achieve. People like different books for different reasons, thats gonna be an independent variable no matter what, the issue is to get the selection process to where it can be the constant. I havent ever set up a poll so I'm not sure of the functionality but what I propose is this.

 

In order to get coverage the first thing needed is to break down the books into eras. Thankfully the 4 main established ages work well for this IE - 25 books from Modern, Bronze, Silver and Golden Ages.

 

With that out of the way how to conduct the selection - well I thought that 2 rounds of process would work best. The first round goes something like this.

 

Each Board Modern through Gold nominates books in that era independent of one another and votes on them. So lets take Bronze.

 

1. The era is established using OS definitions. I know they have gone into more detail with their late and early age references. But basic Gold is 33-53 Silver is 54-69, Bronze 70-80, and Modern 81+ or there abouts.

 

2. Foe approximately 10--14 days on the BA board forumites can enter books into the voting list for consideration. A member may nominate a max. of 5 books per era (more on why in a sec) so 5 BA books, 5 SA etc. You must nominate with a scan of the book and maybe the cover artist and inker, maybe a short blurb about why you think its a significant cover.

 

3. Tabulation of a few days to compile the master list to be voted upon.

 

4. Voting for 10-14 days in the following fashion. Im not sure if it possible but every forum member gets a maximum of 5 votes in each era. YOu must vote for 5 books in each era you choose to vote in. This is why ONLY 5 NOMINATIONS as you cant nominate a book that wont receive a vote. You could change your mind between nominations and voting however this should ensure that the books get at least one vote.

 

5. Votes are registered by selecting in order from 1,2,3 ... the books. This is important as it alows for ties to be broken. The best BA cover will be the cover with THE MOST FIRST PLACE VOTES. In the event of a tie, the most 2nd place votes and so on.

 

6. A minimum of 100 posts by a certain date to vote - should help eliminate the shills.

 

7. So at the end of voting we should get the top 25 in each era Gold through Modern.

 

8. The Top 100 list is compiled in the following way:

 

- The 25th Modern Book is #100, the 25th BA=#99, 25th SA=#98,25th GA=97, 24th Modern=96 and so on. THIS IS DONE ALL THE WAY UP FOR THE TOP 80 BOOKS.

 

9. Getting the TOP 20. The top 5 books in each age are put together in another master list and voting for this second round takes place for another 10-14 days. Books go head to head and are scores the same as the first round (max 5 votes in seqential order) with the most first place votes winning etc.

 

10. Tabulate the final list and call the publisher.

 

Im open to suggestions, but I think that the structure is pretty solid, its how voting for movies and book lists all star selections etc takes place. and if there is interest in doing this would obviously need help for tabulation and running the voting on all the different eras on all the different Boards. Its as complexly simple as I can make it to try to ensure a variety, fairness and still allow the true cream covers to rise to the top.

 

I hope that the format has been conveyed well, Im sure that there will be questions and trouble shooting them will be important so that the voting in all the different ages takes place in a consistent manner.

[Silver Surfer]

Jbud,

 

I'm all for it because that Wizard list is a pile of [!@#%^&^]. Why don't just just start a thread in each era and get this started.

[jbud73]

Well im order to do it right under the format I described, I thinks its important that everyone be clear on the rules and take a few days to think about the covers they wanna nominate etc.

 

Already had a question. The reason for the need to go all the way to 5th place votes is to populate the bottom portion of the lists. In fact I should have streesed the need to vote for 5 books in every era you choose to vote.

 

The 5th place votes ensure that there is competition at the bottom of the list just like there will be at the top and makes for a much more accurate and well rounded list.

 

I'd just rather take a few days see what the response is and get everyone on board and do it right if Im gonna try and to it - I've done one before for authors in geners, IE Sci Fi , horror suspense etc, it takes time and planning but with enough participants the results can be really cool.

 

Plus to make the list work and be representative of the weath of expertise and knowledge on the board I want the forumites to fight for their covers with historical explanation etc, limited to a number of words, of why this, or that cover is the top of the age.

[Aces]

I think we should break them up by Age though.

 

It isn't fair to compare what some guy working for pennies in the 1940s was able to do with what can be done on modern age comics with all bells and whistles.

 

 

Top 20 from each of the five major Ages?

 

Golden 1945 -back

Atomic 1945 -1955

Silver 1955 - 1970

Bronze 1970 - 1985

Modern 1985 - up

[jbud73]

If you read the original again that exactly what Im proposing. Top 25 in each age - the voting in each age is independant of the other ages. The only time the ages go head to head is in the second round where the top 20 is established.

[Silver Surfer]

Just a few suggestions:

 

- Why don't we start off with one that restricted to superhero books from Marvel then move on to DC, etc and then figure out how to merge all the top votes later.

 

- Ask people not to post scans of their issues until the top 25 are finalized as this will make the thread a lot eaiser to read through.

 

I have a few in mind already but narrowing it down to five is going to be tough.

[jbud73]

Let me answer this one and use Romance books for an example. A certain member who shall remain nameless but eveyone knows throws in a few of these into his BA nominations, and votes one of them as 1sy or 2nd. A few ppl see the scan and are swayed a bit not into a 1st or 2nd vote but it garners a few 5ths or 4ths etc, the book fights it out in the 20-25 range with a number of other 2nd tier books that have 1 or 2 first place votes, or one of 2 second place votes and a larger number of 4th and 5ths. In this way the book has a shot at making the list in BA - not at the top but it may stand out as an important book in the 20-25 bracket that reperesent the top of the genre.

 

I believe that if enough number vote truely based on their knowledge and experience that there will be a few surprises, BUT that every surprise will be "Wow that such a cool cover, it might not be the vice of the masses but it it still appreciated as part of the comicdom art landscape.

 

IE is the 1st or 2nd BA western cover better than the 8th BA spidey cover, I think that if rationality prevails it should come out to be.

 

I think the structure that I have laid out is a very viable one, but I am open to suggestions, IE I will field questions and try to illustrate how the structure deals with issues. In the end I want as many ppl as possible to be accepting of the rules so that they will do what is intended. Nominate and vote for some of the best Cover Art in Comic books.

[blowout]

I would suggest that you make the rules a little less complicated and you might get more participation.

[Rocketeer]

I would suggest that you make the rules a little less complicated and you might get more participation.

 

Yeah,...the rules are reminding me of that game that Bugaboo made up last year,..anyone remember that?

 

I've got a better idea for this game. First, everyone who wants to participate must gather up every book they have in their collection and load it into their car (or truck, depending on how many books you have). Then, you must drive your collection at least 3 states away from where they are currently being stored. Once you arrive, you then build a stone temple in the shape of a pyramid. This temple must have a base that is exactly 9 square feet, and it must be precisely 9 feet tall at the point. You must then park your vehicle precisely 3 miles away from this temple and then make your way back to it while crawling on your hands and knees. Then, climb to the top of the temple, punch yourself in the nuts, and scream as loudly as you can, "I'm a person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point for playing this game". Once you have accomplished this feat, walk back to your vehicle, drive back home, and put your comic collection back where it belongs. The first one to do this and come in here and post pictures of it, is declared a pathetic loser. The others must then drive back to their stone temple pyramid, destroy it, and take pictures to post for proof of its destruction. In the event of a tie where two or more people accomplish this feat and post their proof at the same time, then they must all drive 4 states away for round two and do the same thing. If, again, there is a tie, then those remaining will have to drive 5 states away for the third round, and so on. Good luck to all.

 

[jbud73]

Hmm well I dont think that the rules are that complicated, the tabulation is a bit. Look essentially you nominate as many as 5 or as little as 0 books in each age. A list is compiled and you assign a top 5 in each age you choose to vote in.

 

After the Ages have been established, the top 20 (made up of the top 5 in each age) are voted on again. The manner being the same, assign your best 1 through 5.

 

I tried to go into the tabulation a bit so ppl would understand where there vote is going, and to see if ppl agreed it was fair.

 

Potentially, if I run the BA and Modern Age voting and someone else runs the GA and SA voting only 2 ppl need to understand the tabulation.

 

So essentially what Im saying is - are there 25 GA, SA, BA and Modern Covers out there, that the entire combined forum could think of. And then could ppl assign their personal top 5 to that list.

[blowout]

Why not just let everyone nominate 5 books, then compile a master list and everyone votes their top 3?

Forget about all the different ages, we are talking best covers here, what does it matter when the book was published?

[FlyingDonut]

Why not just let everyone nominate 5 books, then compile a master list and everyone votes their top 3?

Forget about all the different ages, we are talking best covers here, what does it matter when the book was published?

 

That's a hell of a lot easier. Here's mine:

 

1. Amazing Spider-Man 144

2. Superman 14

3. Crime Suspenstories 17

4. Action 1

5. Amazing Spider-Man (second series) 36

[jbud73]

Why not just let everyone nominate 5 books, then compile a master list and everyone votes their top 3?

Forget about all the different ages, we are talking best covers here, what does it matter when the book was published?

 

To take your questions in order

 

1. Voting for the top 3 will not populate a large enough list, from my previous experience with this sort of thing. IE you will have alot of nominated books that dont get voted on. I think it actually works better if you nominate 3 and vote for 5. Which may in fact be what happens.

 

2. I think that by voting in both ways IE Golden Age against only Golden age in the first round. And then stacking the top 5 in each age against each other in the second. You deal with the polar opposites of your opinion "what age does it matter the books were published in?" And Aces opinion that "Its tough to compare books in GA to Modern etc." I think these two camps agree to disagree and the 2 rounds of voting should make everyone happy.

[cavecarson]

I just want to see the covers!

[blowout]

And Aces opinion that "Its tough to compare books in GA to Modern etc."

 

I just don't buy that, you either like a piece of artwork or you don't.

 

Trust me from past experiences on the boards, keeping it simple will produce the best results.

[jbud73]

Why not just let everyone nominate 5 books, then compile a master list and everyone votes their top 3?

Forget about all the different ages, we are talking best covers here, what does it matter when the book was published?

 

That's a hell of a lot easier. Here's mine:

 

1. Amazing Spider-Man 144

2. Superman 14

3. Crime Suspenstories 17

4. Action 1

5. Amazing Spider-Man (second series) 36

 

I didnt say that the method was easy, just that it was very good at getting accuracy and eliminating alot of variables. ALot of ppl harped on the Wizard List, but its not a very easy thing to do. Like I said IF there is enough support this will take up some of my time (and hopefully another forumite/volunteer) but I think the end result and other forumite enjoyment would be worth it.

[jbud73]

And Aces opinion that "Its tough to compare books in GA to Modern etc."

 

I just don't buy that, you either like a piece of artwork or you don't.

 

Trust me from past experiences on the boards, keeping it simple will produce the best results.

 

Again I understand the ageless art opinion is strong, but I know that there is a very strong opinion to the contrary. The method ensures that there are at least 25 books from the 4 ages in the list. While still pitting the best of the best head to head in the second round.

 

As for participation, we'll see what the response is like to the proposal and the clarifications of it. I for one am banking that there are alot of intelligent collectors here. The burden of work in this is on the tabulators who oversee the voting and the ppl who submit nominations, but that is pretty much getting a scan and posting.

 

Thanks for the input Blowout

[blowout]

but I think the end result and other forumite enjoyment would be worth it.

 

Sure, its a great idea. Bring it on.

[PovertyRow]

Im open to suggestions, but I think that the structure is pretty solid, its how voting for movies and book lists all star selections etc takes place

 

OK - I do have a suggestion. For this to work right there should be folks willing to receive a number of PMs - one per age would work fine.

 

In a list like this there should be no indicators to influence decisions - or make deciding easy for the lazy.

 

So, my good friend, you should solicit volunteers to receive PMs - and after the designated time has elapsed, the PMs should be tallied and sent to you for a final, all-encompassing post.

 

I would volunteer for one slot - and while AA would seem right for me it makes no diff - we would just be tallying votes.

[jbud73]

Im open to suggestions, but I think that the structure is pretty solid, its how voting for movies and book lists all star selections etc takes place

 

OK - I do have a suggestion. For this to work right there should be folks willing to receive a number of PMs - one per age would work fine.

 

In a list like this there should be no indicators to influence decisions - or make deciding easy for the lazy.

 

So, my good friend, you should solicit volunteers to receive PMs - and after the designated time has elapsed, the PMs should be tallied and sent to you for a final, all-encompassing post.

 

I would volunteer for one slot - and while AA would seem right for me it makes no diff - we would just be tallying votes.

 

What I believe you are talking about is the need to make the voting double blind. I assume by AA, you meant GA. This is where my knowledge of the boards and the poll set up is lacking. If I am correct after voting you can see the results, which is a bad thing for influence, can this be turned off like the Trivia question, where responses are not seen till Gemma posts them in the end.

 

If you also mean that the various ppl who nominate the books could sway things, hmmm, but I though maybe in the nomination period that might be ok and actuay desired. But yes if a number of ppl nominate the same book then that might sway the voting, I can see that. Obviously as I said the individuals who oversee and tabulate must be A. Ensure that bias is eliminated and B. Be on the same page and administer the rules the same. Im hoping that the participation and interest will be high, I doubt I'll do it otherwise as it will be some work. Ideally it might be better to have 4 ppl administer the voting, one in each age.

 

Pov please explain how you think PMs could be used to help eliminate the bias. And to the Arch and anyone else can a poll be set where the results are NOT viewable until everyone has voted or voting ends and B. Is a poll possible where the voters can rank up to 5 selections?