White vs Off-White to White

[etanick]

White pages are recognized as the highest quality page color. All else equal, who wouldn't choose white over OW/W?

 

If the books were priced exactly the same, and presented the same, I'd take the WP (in case I ever wanted to resell, because there are people that it does matter to).

 

I don't pay premiums for WP over another copy with different PQ as my experience has been that it's wildly inconsistent.

 

+1

[Bomber-Bob]

I guarantee that if you cracked an off white/white and a white paged slab,you would not be able to tell the difference. (thumbs u

You white page only guys are just chasing labels.

 

Cheaper than chasing the grade on the label !

[ThoseBackPages]

pretty much any comic book made after 1969 is easy to find in quantity.

 

as a collector, i find it more of a "challenge" to find the slabs in the grade i want along with white pages and zero mis-wrap

 

 

[telerites]

I should know this but I really don't - is this an indication of paper quality, paper color, or both?

 

Brittle and slightly brittle pages obviously appear to be a paper quality indicator with no measure of color.

 

Did all paper from all eras begin as white prior to printing? What about pink paged books. Where do those rank regarding paper quality and/or color?

 

I also assume cover paper quality is taken into consideration for grading. Is Marvel chipping brittleness? If a cover page quality is brittle (outside of the grade downgrade) does it then affect the label for page quality/color?

 

Honest questions for clarity sake and no rant intended.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

In hand, I like a comic to look and feel fresh. Nothing says 'well preserved' to me more than the paper color. Before CGC existed, a high grade, desirable book for me meant the absence of spine stress and white pages. I still feel this way.

[vaillant]

The only thing to factor is that the shift from white to tan to brown (and brittle) is oxidation of the paper.

A fire is "rapid oxidation". Stick a flame under a piece of paper and you see the color change from white to tan to brown, then black as it crumbles to ashes. That is what your comics are doing in slow motion. You can't restore the paper quality as it starts degrading, so off-wite paper has a shortened life span. Does it matter? To me it doesn't. Most of my comics will outlast my lifetime with moderate care and reasonable storage conditions.

 

If you want your comics to be the last surviving copies long after you are dead:

 

1) buy only comics with white pages

2) Store them in archival comic supplies (which may require those sheets to neutralize the acid levels because the ink used to print the comic can be acidic on it's own)

3) Store them in the dark with proper humidity levels (not too low or high)

4) Allow them to "breathe".

5) Pray.

 

As a general rule... don't worry about it. You are collecting a product that will crumble to dust eventually anyway. Do you really care if they crumble to dust after you are dead and gone?

 

DG

 

Not precisely. I like whiter pages but also better printing quality (inside pages have incredible variations in printing quality), simply because the story is a lot more enjoyable. This does not mean I would be able to spend a fortune for white pages, but in general if I buy a high-grade copy with lesser page and inside printing quality, I may easily discard it for my previous lower-grade copy.

I am not keeping my comics for the duration of their paper, but for their stories, which hopefully will last for someone other to read and appreciate their value.

[vaillant]

I also agree with boomber-bob, as it’s great to keep a book or a comic well-preserved, since it lets you experience better how it must have been to read it when it was published.

 

Said this, I have some 19th and one 18th century book which I have the impression will outlast some of my american comic books.

[Racer-X]

I should know this but I really don't - is this an indication of paper quality, paper color, or both? NOW THAT YOU BROUGHT IT UP, I WOULD SAY BOTH (SEE BELOW)

 

Brittle and slightly brittle pages obviously appear to be a paper quality indicator with no measure of color. THIS WOULD SEEM TO BE TRUE, YET THOSE ASSIGNATIONS ARE PLACED ON THE LABEL IN THE SAME LOCATION AS THE OTHER COLOR INDICATORS, AND WITH NO OTHER COLOR INDICATOR PRESENT; THEREFORE, "BRITTLE" WOULD SEEM TO REPRESENT THE LOWEST PAGE QUALITY/COLOR; I WOULD GUESS THAT COMIC PAPER TURNS BRITTLE ONLY AFTER THE PRECEDING CHEMICAL PROCESS HAS TURNED THE PAGES TAN/BROWN, BUT OTHER BOARDIES HERE WOULD KNOW MUCH MORE ABOUT THAT

 

Did all paper from all eras begin as white prior to printing? I WANT TO KNOW TOO! What about pink paged books. NEVER SEEN THIS Where do those rank regarding paper quality and/or color?

 

I also assume cover paper quality is taken into consideration for grading. Is Marvel chipping brittleness? I DO NOT BELIEVE MC IS CONSIDERED BRITTLENESS. IT IS ANOTHER TYPE OF DEFECT ALTOGETHER.

 

If a cover page quality is brittle (outside of the grade downgrade) does it then affect the label for page quality/color? I THINK MOST PAGES HAVE TO BE BRITTLE TO GET THAT ASSIGNATION. I DO NOT THINK YOU WOULD JUST HAVE A BRITTLE COVER AND NO OTHER BRITTLE PAGES

 

Honest questions for clarity sake and no rant intended.

 

See my comments to your Q's above in CAPS. But I am a boardie with only moderate knowledge, so wait for others to chime in...

[dgarthwaite-migration]

The only thing to factor is that the shift from white to tan to brown (and brittle) is oxidation of the paper.

A fire is "rapid oxidation". Stick a flame under a piece of paper and you see the color change from white to tan to brown, then black as it crumbles to ashes. That is what your comics are doing in slow motion. You can't restore the paper quality as it starts degrading, so off-wite paper has a shortened life span. Does it matter? To me it doesn't. Most of my comics will outlast my lifetime with moderate care and reasonable storage conditions.

 

If you want your comics to be the last surviving copies long after you are dead:

 

1) buy only comics with white pages

2) Store them in archival comic supplies (which may require those sheets to neutralize the acid levels because the ink used to print the comic can be acidic on it's own)

3) Store them in the dark with proper humidity levels (not too low or high)

4) Allow them to "breathe".

5) Pray.

 

As a general rule... don't worry about it. You are collecting a product that will crumble to dust eventually anyway. Do you really care if they crumble to dust after you are dead and gone?

 

DG

 

Not precisely. I like whiter pages but also better printing quality (inside pages have incredible variations in printing quality), simply because the story is a lot more enjoyable. This does not mean I would be able to spend a fortune for white pages, but in general if I buy a high-grade copy with lesser page and inside printing quality, I may easily discard it for my previous lower-grade copy.

I am not keeping my comics for the duration of their paper, but for their stories, which hopefully will last for someone other to read and appreciate their value.

 

What percentage of raw books advertise page color when they are sold? I don't see a lot of online ads mentioning it, but that may be because I'm content with mid-grade comics. Page whiteness is mainly something I see on ads selling slabbed comics. It always struck me as odd because most collector's aren't willing to crack open the slabs anyway. I've heard of Golden age buyers cracking the slabs open, but not much about the other era slabs getting cracked open.

 

I applaud you for actually reading the comics you buy. When I bought my AF #15, the first thing I did was read it. Evidently that horrified some collectors and they thought I was lying.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

There are NO guarantees on page color and quality after the book is slabbed. If a box of slabbed comics is stored in a sun room down in Florida, that paper WILL yellow from the heat alone.

 

Opening a slabbed comic to confirm the paper quality just means the book was stored reasonably well. It does not guarantee that someone hasn't stored the book improperly after it was labeled as having white pages.

 

If the price is the same, I too would buy the better page quality. I'm not trying to criticize people for wanting white pages. I just feel there is not enough evidence to support that white pages are worth more when off-white copies are sometimes selling for higher dollar amounts.

 

Honestly, I feel that page color should be part of the grading process and reflected in the numerical grade. I guess that's difficult to do if you don't know the exact color of the paper that came off the printing press 40 years ago.

 

DG

[dgarthwaite-migration]

The general consensus is that Marvel chipping is caused by the cheap paper quality Marvel used. The shearing process caused stress fractures in the paper as the comic edges were sheared. Stress fractures can get worse from handling or thermal cycling. It's just an inherent flaw that Marvel Comics have.

 

DG

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I also agree with boomber-bob, as it’s great to keep a book or a comic well-preserved, since it lets you experience better how it must have been to read it when it was published.

 

Said this, I have some 19th and one 18th century book which I have the impression will outlast some of my american comic books.

 

My sister (a librarian) tells me that paper quality was of a better grade in older printed materials and that many of the problems comic collectors face are not a problem with paper from the 1800's and back. I haven't researched the issue or questioned her information, but I know she is reasonably knowledgeable about such matters.

 

If anyone tells my sister that I said she is intelligent, I will deny it and say this post was forged by someone else.

 

DG

[Jeffro.]

White pages are recognized as the highest quality page color. All else equal, who wouldn't choose white over OW/W?

 

Again, given that on any day at CGC, white could be off white and off white could be white, I wonder why people obsess over it so much.

 

It's the same with grades. A 7.0 can be a 7.5 and vice versa etc. What matters - right or wrong - is what's on the label.

 

That's blind faith right there

[Toz]

I've got some higher quality(not grade) mags from the early 1920's through the 1940's that are not newsprint and are still nearly bone white so she may be on to something there.

I also agree with boomber-bob, as it’s great to keep a book or a comic well-preserved, since it lets you experience better how it must have been to read it when it was published.

 

Said this, I have some 19th and one 18th century book which I have the impression will outlast some of my american comic books.

 

My sister (a librarian) tells me that paper quality was of a better grade in older printed materials and that many of the problems comic collectors face are not a problem with paper from the 1800's and back. I haven't researched the issue or questioned her information, but I know she is reasonably knowledgeable about such matters.

 

If anyone tells my sister that I said she is intelligent, I will deny it and say this post was forged by someone else.

 

DG

[oakman29]

White pages are recognized as the highest quality page color. All else equal, who wouldn't choose white over OW/W?

 

Again, given that on any day at CGC, white could be off white and off white could be white, I wonder why people obsess over it so much.

 

It's the same with grades. A 7.0 can be a 7.5 and vice versa etc. What matters - right or wrong - is what's on the label.

 

That's blind faith right there

Whatever gets him through the day,right!

[Jeffro.]

I really don't mean to be a about it. Paying a premium for a white paged book can be a crapshoot. You just never know the true level of preservation if you cannot examine the interior of the book.

 

Page quality can change on re-sub and poor storage conditions while in the slab can alter the PQ as well.

[Racer-X]

White pages are recognized as the highest quality page color. All else equal, who wouldn't choose white over OW/W?

 

Again, given that on any day at CGC, white could be off white and off white could be white, I wonder why people obsess over it so much.

 

It's the same with grades. A 7.0 can be a 7.5 and vice versa etc. What matters - right or wrong - is what's on the label.

 

That's blind faith right there

Whatever gets him through the day,right!

 

That's right Oakie! Ha-Ha! (thumbs u

[rjrjr]

How much better is white pages vs off-white to white pages? Should I paid extra to get the same grade but white pages instead of off-white to white?

 

I store all the slabs I own and will sell in the non-air conditioned garage. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. Sometimes, these slabs will sit the garage for 2-3 years before I sell them because I tend to ask a premium for the books since we are talking about rare 9.8 bronze and copper age books. Luckily they were labelled as White at the time they were slabbed.

 

The slabs I plan on keeping in my collection are in an air conditioned room.

[oakman29]

White pages are recognized as the highest quality page color. All else equal, who wouldn't choose white over OW/W?

 

Again, given that on any day at CGC, white could be off white and off white could be white, I wonder why people obsess over it so much.

 

It's the same with grades. A 7.0 can be a 7.5 and vice versa etc. What matters - right or wrong - is what's on the label.

 

That's blind faith right there

Whatever gets him through the day,right!

 

That's right Oakie! Ha-Ha! (thumbs u

I'm trying to be a kinder,gentler Oak. So don't pizz me off!

 

 

 

 

 

[comicdonna]

White pages are recognized as the highest quality page color. All else equal, who wouldn't choose white over OW/W?

 

Again, given that on any day at CGC, white could be off white and off white could be white, I wonder why people obsess over it so much.

 

It's the same with grades. A 7.0 can be a 7.5 and vice versa etc. What matters - right or wrong - is what's on the label.

 

That's blind faith right there

Whatever gets him through the day,right!

 

That's right Oakie! Ha-Ha! (thumbs u

I'm trying to be a kinder,gentler Oak. So don't pizz me off!