Journey 83 - 1st Thor - 5.0W signed!

[VintageComics]

Super nice!

 

Also what would you suspect the grade would have been without the sig?

 

I guess I'm asking if it would have came back qualified, how higher do you think the CGC grade could have been?

 

I don't have it in front of me, but I don't think that's how it works - I don't believe they downgrade for vintage signatures that they think are real. They can't 100% authenticate obviously but neither do they downgrade.

 

I could be mistaken but that's my understanding.

 

That signature likely did not affect the grade at all in the VG range. No need to put the book into another coloured holder as it's a mid-grade book, not a high grade book that needs qualifying.

 

I brought that book to market and had it slabbed. It came from an old estate sale. Don't know any of the history beyond the estate sale that I purchased it from.

 

 

[Bronty]

Thank you Roy!

[Mark 1]

It's a sweet copy. I would love to upgrade but the timing is wrong. Someone take this beauty!

[VintageComics]

Thank you Roy!

 

I'm trying to warm you up so I can steal that sweet ST #89 you picked up.

 

I sold my 8.0 years ago and have regretted it ever since.

 

[Bronty]

Its gunna take a lot of warming Roy!

[.Troy]

[.Troy]

Happy Birthday!

[vaillant]

Sorry for the slight OT, but I thought unobtrusive signatures (either by authors or original owners) weren’t a big deal as far as grading goes.

Up to which grade CGC allows a cover signature (or writing) without downgrading the book?

 

What a nice copy, BTW.

[.Troy]

Pm sent!

 

[Bronty]

Thanks for the various offers and interest guys.

 

Book is on hold

[Bronty]

SOLD! Thx

[Green]

SOLD! Thx

Congrats to the buyer. Very special book.

[Boboset]

I am VERY surprised that this book did not sell sooner. Congrats to the buyer and seller.

[comicwiz]

Super nice!

 

Also what would you suspect the grade would have been without the sig?

 

I guess I'm asking if it would have came back qualified, how higher do you think the CGC grade could have been?

 

I don't have it in front of me, but I don't think that's how it works - I don't believe they downgrade for vintage signatures that they think are real. They can't 100% authenticate obviously but neither do they downgrade.

 

I could be mistaken but that's my understanding.

 

That signature likely did not affect the grade at all in the VG range. No need to put the book into another coloured holder as it's a mid-grade book, not a high grade book that needs qualifying.

 

I brought that book to market and had it slabbed. It came from an old estate sale. Don't know any of the history beyond the estate sale that I purchased it from.

 

 

Congtats on the sale Dan.

 

I don't get the conditional approach you're referring to CGC using with high grade versus mid-grade. Why isn't the book in a green label slab?

[VintageComics]

I believe that if the signature affects the grade on an otherwise high grade copy the book will go into a qualified label.

 

You could conceivably ask CGC to put it into a blue label I suppose but then your qualified 9.8 might end up being only a blue label 7.0 or whatever.

 

In this case the writing does not affect the grade at all so no reason to qualify it.

[comicwiz]

Technically, on an unwitnessed signature, the green label should be a no deduction assignment. A blue label should have some deduction, as that is the concession the submitter makes between a green label or a blue. This sounds like a have your cake and eat it too example - not refuting that no deductions occurred with the JIM 83, but I'm just saying that blue label should deduct regardless of grade.

[VintageComics]

Technically, the green label is a no deduction assignment. A blue label should have some deduction, as that is the concession the submitter makes between a green label or a blue. This sounds like a have your cake and eat it too example - not refuting that no deductions occurred with the JIM 83, but I'm just saying that blue label should deduct regardless of grade.

 

The purpose of the green label is to convey a book's apparent qualified grade and ignore (but notate) a significant defect where that one significant defect brings the actual grade down.

 

In this case, the writing might be a defect but it doesn't reduce the grade so there is no reason for an apparent qualified grade.

 

Seems reasonable enough to me.

 

[VintageComics]

Technically, on an unwitnessed signature, the green label should be a no deduction assignment. A blue label should have some deduction, as that is the concession the submitter makes between a green label or a blue. This sounds like a have your cake and eat it too example - not refuting that no deductions occurred with the JIM 83, but I'm just saying that blue label should deduct regardless of grade.

 

And sorry, I may have read past what you were actually saying.

 

I should not have said the signature did not affect the grade. The signature was likely factored into the grade but had relatively little effect making the green label redundant.

 

For example: I have no idea but let's say for discussion we are talking about a green label 5.5/6.0. vs. a blue label 5.0?

 

I'd rather have the blue label 5.0

[comicwiz]

After going back and forth with Paul Litch by email earlier today, I'm not sure I understand this any better.

 

I understand how qualified grades are assigned to books which are "missing" elements (i.e. pages, inserts, coupons, staples, and ink colour on the RGB spectrum, etc.).

 

And the stigma against Marvel Value stamps being clipped is certainly justified.

 

However the stigma carries over to other "qualified" assignments, and IMHO it seems to be inadequately equipped to be used for unwitnessed signatures.

 

I always thought the green label (and the stigma it carried) was a conveniently used grade assignment that forced collectors to choose the SS path.

[Bronty]

Thanks for the congrats.

 

^ I don't think that would be fair or logical. How to deal with signatures of people who died before cgc ever opened their doors?

 

My understanding of the green label, similar to what roy is saying, is that its a label used when one single defect causes a really significant downgrade to a book.

 

Like, say, an AF15 that looks 9.4 but has a 3 ring binder hole punch throughout. Calling it a 2.0 isn't as accurate a descriptor as Q9.4.

 

In this case there isn't a big enough swing in the before and after grades to warrant the use of a green label.