rjrjr Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You can say that Marvel Preview 7 is not a comic or not in comic book format but it contains sequential art stories featuring characters from comic book universes like Marvel. Listen, if it was produced and published by Marvel's MAGAZINE department, distributed through traditional MAGAZINE channels, and sold through MAGAZINE shops and retailers, then it's a MAGAZINE, no matter what's inside. That was the entire purpose of the Marvel Magazine line - to infiltrate traditional MAGAZINE distribution and retail channels to get the higher-end buyers and advertising. Uh, what about Man-Thing's 1st App in Savage Tales #1? 1st appearance, yes. 1st comic book appearance, no. That's not what the market thinks though. Admittedly, every story in Savage Tales #1 is a triumph in its own right, but it's still billed as the 1st app of Man-Thing (regardless of what you and Vince think) CGC differentiates between the 1st appearance and the 1st comic book appearance apparently. Look at the label of an IH 272 for an example. I would suspect an Adventure into Fear 10 could be labelled as the 1st comic book appearance for Man-Thing if someone asked. This isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be how CGC and several people think. Honestly, my opinion is it is a tactic to get more money from collectors. Look at Hellboy. There are 3 books a collector would need to track down to get all the 1st appearances. If you've been following this thread, I'm firmly in the other camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You can say that Marvel Preview 7 is not a comic or not in comic book format but it contains sequential art stories featuring characters from comic book universes like Marvel. Listen, if it was produced and published by Marvel's MAGAZINE department, distributed through traditional MAGAZINE channels, and sold through MAGAZINE shops and retailers, then it's a MAGAZINE, no matter what's inside. That was the entire purpose of the Marvel Magazine line - to infiltrate traditional MAGAZINE distribution and retail channels to get the higher-end buyers and advertising. Uh, what about Man-Thing's 1st App in Savage Tales #1? 1st appearance, yes. 1st comic book appearance, no. That's not what the market thinks though. Admittedly, every story in Savage Tales #1 is a triumph in its own right, but it's still billed as the 1st app of Man-Thing (regardless of what you and Vince think) CGC differentiates between the 1st appearance and the 1st comic book appearance apparently. Look at the label of an IH 272 for an example. I would suspect an Adventure into Fear 10 could be labelled as the 1st comic book appearance for Man-Thing if someone asked. This isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be how CGC and several people think. Honestly, my opinion is it is a tactic to get more money from collectors. Look at Hellboy. There are 3 books a collector would need to track down to get all the 1st appearances. If you've been following this thread, I'm firmly in the other camp. Nothing personal but you "suspect" incorrectly, and no, CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjrjr Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) You can say that Marvel Preview 7 is not a comic or not in comic book format but it contains sequential art stories featuring characters from comic book universes like Marvel. Listen, if it was produced and published by Marvel's MAGAZINE department, distributed through traditional MAGAZINE channels, and sold through MAGAZINE shops and retailers, then it's a MAGAZINE, no matter what's inside. That was the entire purpose of the Marvel Magazine line - to infiltrate traditional MAGAZINE distribution and retail channels to get the higher-end buyers and advertising. Uh, what about Man-Thing's 1st App in Savage Tales #1? 1st appearance, yes. 1st comic book appearance, no. That's not what the market thinks though. Admittedly, every story in Savage Tales #1 is a triumph in its own right, but it's still billed as the 1st app of Man-Thing (regardless of what you and Vince think) CGC differentiates between the 1st appearance and the 1st comic book appearance apparently. Look at the label of an IH 272 for an example. I would suspect an Adventure into Fear 10 could be labelled as the 1st comic book appearance for Man-Thing if someone asked. This isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be how CGC and several people think. Honestly, my opinion is it is a tactic to get more money from collectors. Look at Hellboy. There are 3 books a collector would need to track down to get all the 1st appearances. If you've been following this thread, I'm firmly in the other camp. Nothing personal but you "suspect" incorrectly, and no, CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor. That is good to know. I always assumed this since I've seen so many different notes on CGC slabbed books for the same comic. I'll admit it, I'm pretty ignorant about the CGC labels. Why does Incredible Hulk 271 get the 1st comic book appearance of Rocket Raccoon note? And Marvel Preview 7 gets no mention of Rocket Raccoon? A mistake by CGC? Edited January 9, 2014 by rjrjr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comic_memories Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You can say that Marvel Preview 7 is not a comic or not in comic book format but it contains sequential art stories featuring characters from comic book universes like Marvel. Listen, if it was produced and published by Marvel's MAGAZINE department, distributed through traditional MAGAZINE channels, and sold through MAGAZINE shops and retailers, then it's a MAGAZINE, no matter what's inside. That was the entire purpose of the Marvel Magazine line - to infiltrate traditional MAGAZINE distribution and retail channels to get the higher-end buyers and advertising. Uh, what about Man-Thing's 1st App in Savage Tales #1? 1st appearance, yes. 1st comic book appearance, no. That's not what the market thinks though. Admittedly, every story in Savage Tales #1 is a triumph in its own right, but it's still billed as the 1st app of Man-Thing (regardless of what you and Vince think) CGC differentiates between the 1st appearance and the 1st comic book appearance apparently. Look at the label of an IH 272 for an example. I would suspect an Adventure into Fear 10 could be labelled as the 1st comic book appearance for Man-Thing if someone asked. This isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be how CGC and several people think. Honestly, my opinion is it is a tactic to get more money from collectors. Look at Hellboy. There are 3 books a collector would need to track down to get all the 1st appearances. If you've been following this thread, I'm firmly in the other camp. Nothing personal but you "suspect" incorrectly, and no, CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor. That is good to know. I always assumed this since I've seen so many different notes on CGC slabbed books for the same comic. I'll admit it, I'm pretty ignorant about the CGC labels. Why does Incredible Hulk 271 get the 1st comic book appearance of Rocket Raccoon note? And Marvel Preview 7 gets no mention of Rocket Raccoon? A mistake by CGC? Probably because Overstreet doesn't recognize it either(yet), I don't think CGC wants to be responsible for comic facts, and I don't blame them, They are not the authority of comic history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardevil0 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Nothing personal but you "suspect" incorrectly, and no, CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor. That is good to know. I always assumed this since I've seen so many different notes on CGC slabbed books for the same comic. I'll admit it, I'm pretty ignorant about the CGC labels. Why does Incredible Hulk 271 get the 1st comic book appearance of Rocket Raccoon note? And Marvel Preview 7 gets no mention of Rocket Raccoon? A mistake by CGC? Probably because Overstreet doesn't recognize it either(yet), I don't think CGC wants to be responsible for comic facts, and I don't blame them, They are not the authority of comic history While you're correct to say that CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor, you can submit information to them to be added to the notes, an example of which is this thread. You can post in "Ask CGC," send a PM to some of the CGC employees who frequent the boards, and maybe even call customer service. They will look into it, and if they agree they will make the changes to the database. This is how there are slabs with various levels of detail out there. If you're a stickler about these things, you can send in your book for a reholder and it will get the new label. By the way, this is all information gleaned from the boards and journals; I have not yet attempted to affect the notes myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That Ask CGC thread is really hit or miss. I was looking for buy a CGC copy of Marvel Premiere 23, the first appearance of Warhawk, a prototype of the current Wolveine that Claremont evolved in the X-Men, but I couldn't find one with a notation of this First Appearance. So I asked CGC but I guess the question wasn't approved for publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardevil0 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That Ask CGC thread is really hit or miss. I was looking for buy a CGC copy of Marvel Premiere 23, the first appearance of Warhawk, a prototype of the current Wolveine that Claremont evolved in the X-Men, but I couldn't find one with a notation of this First Appearance. So I asked CGC but I guess the question wasn't approved for publication. I just went into the Registry, randomly pulled the serial number for a Marvel Premiere 23, and pasted it into the Verification system. This is the only way I know of to check the current status of the notes. I looked up three serial numbers, and the result showed notes for Marvel Premiere 23 are: Key Comments: Iron Fist. 1st appearance of Warhawk (Mitchell Tanner). I found a photo of one, 0707582004, that does not show the Warhawk note on the label but if you look it up in Verification the note is there. So, if you really want to have a slabbed copy with the note, you have to buy a recently graded one or submit an already graded for reholder. It may have been your question that prompted the change... , but the info is there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It may have been your question that prompted the change... , but the info is there now. It may well have been, since I have yet to see a copy graded with that notation. Now I just need to wait for someone to submit a nice CGC 9.4-9.6 copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardevil0 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 How's this for service? Jimmy Linguiniii has one in his F/S thread for $125. Marvel Premiere 23 CGC 9.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 How's this for service? Jimmy Linguiniii has one in his F/S thread for $125. Marvel Premiere 23 CGC 9.6 Thanks for the tip, but unless it's a good deal, I tend to stick with White pages for BA. Now if it was $100 shipped, I might just grab it and run. And I'm also hunting for a CGC 9.2-9.4 copy of Marvel Premiere 16 (or NM raw) and I'd probably put that $125 into a CGC 9.6 copy for $160-$170. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardevil0 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Fair enough, but you do get to give yourself a pat on the back for most likely being the impetus for the notes change (pending further review of grade dates, etc). The system works! Kind of... slowly... and probably too late to help you when you submit your one-of-a-kind first appearance and it comes back with no notes... I still have no idea how they would handle the Rocket Raccoon debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComicConnoisseur Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 You can say that Marvel Preview 7 is not a comic or not in comic book format but it contains sequential art stories featuring characters from comic book universes like Marvel. Listen, if it was produced and published by Marvel's MAGAZINE department, distributed through traditional MAGAZINE channels, and sold through MAGAZINE shops and retailers, then it's a MAGAZINE, no matter what's inside. That was the entire purpose of the Marvel Magazine line - to infiltrate traditional MAGAZINE distribution and retail channels to get the higher-end buyers and advertising. Uh, what about Man-Thing's 1st App in Savage Tales #1? 1st appearance, yes. 1st comic book appearance, no. That's not what the market thinks though. Admittedly, every story in Savage Tales #1 is a triumph in its own right, but it's still billed as the 1st app of Man-Thing (regardless of what you and Vince think) CGC differentiates between the 1st appearance and the 1st comic book appearance apparently. Look at the label of an IH 272 for an example. I would suspect an Adventure into Fear 10 could be labelled as the 1st comic book appearance for Man-Thing if someone asked. This isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be how CGC and several people think. Honestly, my opinion is it is a tactic to get more money from collectors. Look at Hellboy. There are 3 books a collector would need to track down to get all the 1st appearances. If you've been following this thread, I'm firmly in the other camp. Nothing personal but you "suspect" incorrectly, and no, CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor. That is good to know. I always assumed this since I've seen so many different notes on CGC slabbed books for the same comic. I'll admit it, I'm pretty ignorant about the CGC labels. Why does Incredible Hulk 271 get the 1st comic book appearance of Rocket Raccoon note? And Marvel Preview 7 gets no mention of Rocket Raccoon? A mistake by CGC? Probably because Overstreet doesn't recognize it either(yet), I don't think CGC wants to be responsible for comic facts, and I don't blame them, They are not the authority of comic history Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWeen Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) You can say that Marvel Preview 7 is not a comic or not in comic book format but it contains sequential art stories featuring characters from comic book universes like Marvel. Listen, if it was produced and published by Marvel's MAGAZINE department, distributed through traditional MAGAZINE channels, and sold through MAGAZINE shops and retailers, then it's a MAGAZINE, no matter what's inside. That was the entire purpose of the Marvel Magazine line - to infiltrate traditional MAGAZINE distribution and retail channels to get the higher-end buyers and advertising. Uh, what about Man-Thing's 1st App in Savage Tales #1? 1st appearance, yes. 1st comic book appearance, no. That's not what the market thinks though. Admittedly, every story in Savage Tales #1 is a triumph in its own right, but it's still billed as the 1st app of Man-Thing (regardless of what you and Vince think) CGC differentiates between the 1st appearance and the 1st comic book appearance apparently. Look at the label of an IH 272 for an example. I would suspect an Adventure into Fear 10 could be labelled as the 1st comic book appearance for Man-Thing if someone asked. This isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be how CGC and several people think. Honestly, my opinion is it is a tactic to get more money from collectors. Look at Hellboy. There are 3 books a collector would need to track down to get all the 1st appearances. If you've been following this thread, I'm firmly in the other camp. Nothing personal but you "suspect" incorrectly, and no, CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor. That is good to know. I always assumed this since I've seen so many different notes on CGC slabbed books for the same comic. I'll admit it, I'm pretty ignorant about the CGC labels. Why does Incredible Hulk 271 get the 1st comic book appearance of Rocket Raccoon note? And Marvel Preview 7 gets no mention of Rocket Raccoon? A mistake by CGC? Probably because Overstreet doesn't recognize it either(yet), I don't think CGC wants to be responsible for comic facts, and I don't blame them, They are not the authority of comic history CGC should do their due diligence and correct mistakes they make though. It seems there are many collectors who believe that what cgc puts on their labels ( or forgets to put on labels )=facts. Large amounts of money are at stake based on a service they provide so they should be responsible. When RR is not listed on Marvel Preview's 7 cgc label I don't believe that cgc is refusing to state that it is his first appearance, it may just simply be unknown to them. That is fine as long as they correct it. Edited January 10, 2014 by MrWeen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfingh Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The thing to remember is that until these books pop, no one cares. Who could have foreseen Rocket f-ing Raccoon blowing up like this, or Groot, or whatever. If Richard Rider's next store neighbor, T-Bone McGillicutty, who 1st appears in Nova #4, becomes the next Spider-Man, there are not going to be copies of Nova 4 out there that have the delineation until CGC is put on notice and they start to include the intel. That will necessarily mean that there will be copies floating around out there without the delineation. This is going to happen more and more, as Disney and Marvel cull the source material for more and more former work for hire opportunities to make bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The thing to remember is that until these books pop, no one cares. Who could have foreseen Rocket f-ing Raccoon blowing up like this, or Groot, or whatever. If Richard Rider's next store neighbor, T-Bone McGillicutty, who 1st appears in Nova #4, becomes the next Spider-Man, there are not going to be copies of Nova 4 out there that have the delineation until CGC is put on notice and they start to include the intel. That will necessarily mean that there will be copies floating around out there without the delineation. This is going to happen more and more, as Disney and Marvel cull the source material for more and more former work for hire opportunities to make bread. Disney is a gift that could keep on giving to comic speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azcards4ever Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 That's what I thought, but I couldn't remember it for sure. But regardless of it being a reprint of the MSS magazine, Star Wars 42 is still desirable because it has Boba Fett on the cover, and is the first comic book appearance. In a CGC world, having the character on the cover really matters. Would famous monsters of filmland 165 be one to acquire then? Pre-dates Star Wars 42 I believe (though it is a magazine) but it is a photo image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I don't know if anyone has figured out in which magazine is the first to include Boba Fett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonzilla Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 You can say that Marvel Preview 7 is not a comic or not in comic book format but it contains sequential art stories featuring characters from comic book universes like Marvel. Listen, if it was produced and published by Marvel's MAGAZINE department, distributed through traditional MAGAZINE channels, and sold through MAGAZINE shops and retailers, then it's a MAGAZINE, no matter what's inside. That was the entire purpose of the Marvel Magazine line - to infiltrate traditional MAGAZINE distribution and retail channels to get the higher-end buyers and advertising. Uh, what about Man-Thing's 1st App in Savage Tales #1? 1st appearance, yes. 1st comic book appearance, no. That's not what the market thinks though. Admittedly, every story in Savage Tales #1 is a triumph in its own right, but it's still billed as the 1st app of Man-Thing (regardless of what you and Vince think) CGC differentiates between the 1st appearance and the 1st comic book appearance apparently. Look at the label of an IH 272 for an example. I would suspect an Adventure into Fear 10 could be labelled as the 1st comic book appearance for Man-Thing if someone asked. This isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be how CGC and several people think. Honestly, my opinion is it is a tactic to get more money from collectors. Look at Hellboy. There are 3 books a collector would need to track down to get all the 1st appearances. If you've been following this thread, I'm firmly in the other camp. Nothing personal but you "suspect" incorrectly, and no, CGC doesn't tailor its notes to the requestor. That is good to know. I always assumed this since I've seen so many different notes on CGC slabbed books for the same comic. I'll admit it, I'm pretty ignorant about the CGC labels. Why does Incredible Hulk 271 get the 1st comic book appearance of Rocket Raccoon note? And Marvel Preview 7 gets no mention of Rocket Raccoon? A mistake by CGC? Probably because Overstreet doesn't recognize it either(yet), I don't think CGC wants to be responsible for comic facts, and I don't blame them, They are not the authority of comic history Interesting. Man-Thing's first "comic" appearance is Astonishing Tales #12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Man-Thing's first "comic" appearance is Astonishing Tales #12 Yes, and a really cool monotint by Neal Adams! (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjrjr Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Man-Thing's first "comic" appearance is Astonishing Tales #12 Good catch. I was wrong about Adventures Into Fear 10. Edited January 12, 2014 by rjrjr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
