Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[darkstar]

We might as well address the First Appearance of Killer Croc while we're at it . . . so many so-called authorities just have it plain wrong.

 

1. The first appearance of Killer Croc is technically in Tec 523. However he only appears in a few panels and is obscured by his trench coat and fedora. He is addressed by the name Croc. So technically his first appearance is here but its a "cameo".

 

2. He has a larger appearance in Batman 357 but is again hidden by his coat and hat. This book is widely accepted as his first full appearance though as its the real beginning of his story arc. Not seen much throughout the book though. Some argue its just another cameo, which is perfectly fine.

 

3. In Tec 524, Croc appears throughout the book, and his face is revealed for the first time. If I were going to favor a book over Batman 357 as his first meaningful appearance, it would be this and not Batman 358.

 

4. Batman 358 is his first cover appearance and is lately being sold as his true first full appearance on eBay, as he "reveals" himself on the first page and calls himself Killer Croc. Pretty sure most people that are using this sales tactic haven't actually read the relevant issues though, as this is in no way a first appearance outside of a first cover appearance.

 

 

[divad]

Thanks to Bosco and darkstar. Unfortunately, it goes to the "cameo" definition any way you shake it. By definition, a first appearance cannot be a cameo.

 

Batman 357 may be a cameo, but Tec 523 is a 1st app.

[Bosco685]

Thanks to Bosco and darkstar. Unfortunately, it goes to the "cameo" definition any way you shake it. By definition, a first appearance cannot be a cameo.

 

Batman 357 may be a cameo, but Tec 523 is a 1st app.

 

Clearly states his name, and four panels (though one is just him tapping Heller on the shoulder).

[darkstar]

I agree 523 is the first appearance, I only use cameo to make the masses understand.

[divad]

So I guess my question is, why do so many internet sources (and CGC) get it wrong?

[Bosco685]

So I guess my question is, why do so many internet sources (and CGC) get it wrong?

 

It's the whole 'what's a cameo - what's a full appearance' definition thing.

[slym2none]

Thanks to Bosco and darkstar. Unfortunately, it goes to the "cameo" definition any way you shake it. By definition, a first appearance cannot be a cameo.

 

Sure it can!

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cameo?s=t

 

Ignore #'s 1&2, #3 is for comics and other literary works, #4 is for movies. By definition #3, a cameo can be a 1st appearance as well.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[divad]

Thanks to Bosco and darkstar. Unfortunately, it goes to the "cameo" definition any way you shake it. By definition, a first appearance cannot be a cameo.

 

Sure it can!

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cameo?s=t

 

Ignore #'s 1&2, #3 is for comics and other literary works, #4 is for movies. By definition #3, a cameo can be a 1st appearance as well.

 

 

Nope, sorry.

[slym2none]

OK, ignore what is right on front of you.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

[thirdgreenham]

So....how many panels is needed for it to go from "cameo" to "first appearance"?

[Aweandlorder]

So....how many panels is needed for it to go from "cameo" to "first appearance"?

 

one

 

[BettrFastrStrongr]

Who's the albino posing as Darkseid?

[darkstar]

So....how many panels is needed for it to go from "cameo" to "first appearance"?

 

Cameos don't need to be defined. A first appearance is a first appearance. In cases where a first appearance is not the most sought after book, because its only a "cameo", then the book you are looking for is the book with the first MEANINGFUL appearance, which is determined by the market at that given point in time. Hulk 180 is THE first appearance. Hulk 181 is the first MEANINGFUL appearance and thus the one that currently commands the most money.

 

There is no point in attempting to define a cameo appearance vs full appearance since sometimes a one panel/page teaser is enough to qualify as a character's first MEANINGFUL appearance while in other instances it is not.

 

 

[BettrFastrStrongr]

So if Wolverine is not on the cover of 181, 180 would be the book to get? I view 180 as a meaningful appearance.

[darkstar]

So if Wolverine is not on the cover of 181,180 would be the book to get?

 

could be

 

I view 180 as a meaningful appearance.

 

I do as well, but the market on the whole disagrees.

[kimik]

So....how many panels is needed for it to go from "cameo" to "first appearance"?

 

one

 

 

If we go with that as the rule for all books then DD #115 has a shot at first Wolverine for the one pic in the ad.

[slym2none]

So....how many panels is needed for it to go from "cameo" to "first appearance"?

 

one

 

 

If we go with that as the rule for all books then DD #115 has a shot at first Wolverine for the one pic in the ad.

 

DD#115 was before IH#181, but not IH#180.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[divad]

There's nothing wrong with having a 1st app being a brief app, but there's something definitely wrong with having a 2nd app called a 1st app. But neither, should be more valuable by an assigned definition (as 1st app) alone. I'd just as soon have a "1st brief app" and "1st full app" (but Batman 357 is neither).

[MK Ultra]

Interesting analogy to baseball cards.

 

Steve Garvey's rookie is 1969 if memory serves. His second card was part of the last series, a high number, and thus short printed. While I was more active in that hobby the 2nd year card was priced higher than his rookie b/c of the scarcity.

 

Same with Brett Favre and 1991 and 92 Stadium Club cards.

 

The analogy being that the market will determine what value is assigned. There may be times where savvy collectors can take advantage and buy, or sell before price moves.

 

When the football cards for 1989 were released, Pro Set and Score joined Topps. For six months or more, the prices were the same. However once people realized that Pro Set was sold in grocery stores, and Score was drying up the prices changed so that Score was roughly six times as valuable.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

So....how many panels is needed for it to go from "cameo" to "first appearance"?

 

one

 

 

If we go with that as the rule for all books then DD #115 has a shot at first Wolverine for the one pic in the ad.

 

DD#115 was before IH#181, but not IH#180.

 

 

 

 

-slym

And even if it wasn't, most people don't recognize supplemental material (ads, pin ups, previews, sketches, etc.) as valid "appearances"; that requires appearing in-story