I am so disgusted I won't turn this in...

[Illiterati-migration]

Honestly, I do not think Joanna was required to provide folks lighting fluid.

 

No she was never required to do so - but she did it. In the guise of her words LATER of being [/b]neutral[/b]. End of story.

 

CAL

 

She did nothing, you misogynistic coward.

 

I'm sorry, is this "trolling"? I hear you were reporting posts to the Mods earlier... now why would you do that?

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

I was an agent, working with my then partner, Linda French, from 1993 to 1997, for Alexander Personal Management.

 

We concentrated on West End mainly, but also had reasonable success in TV & film.

 

I can provide a list of past and current credits for actors registered with us, should you so wish, and this will cover such productions as Cats, Les Mis, Martin Guerre, Fame, etc., etc.

 

Now, how about you providing proof that you never edit posts?

 

Oh, sorry, you can't do that, can you?

 

Well, how about you never shilling on eBay?

 

Nope, can't do that either, can you?

 

How about all these e-mails from shill cartels?

 

Well, nothing so far, but I live in hope.

[The Brain]

Honestly, I do not think Joanna was required to provide folks lighting fluid.

 

No she was never required to do so - but she did it. In the guise of her words LATER of being [/b]neutral[/b]. End of story.

 

CAL

 

She did nothing, you misogynistic coward.

 

I'm sorry, is this "trolling"? I hear you were reporting posts to the Mods earlier... now why would you do that?

 

 

 

FYI BOC as of 8/3/04 now has 1 strike up

[Aman619]

oh. when you said you were responsible for putting the stars up on the screen,

O thought you were a projectionist!!

 

 

[Calamerica]

. A PM wasn't necessary. It's not up to me to judge or decide any of this. I was just curious as to why no one asked. The ones who are taking sides against you, that is. Me? I'm staying neutral on this one. I have no interest in flaming anyone, or accusing anyone, or proving anything. It just seemed to be glaringly missing, that "show me the emails!" post. It's usually always in the middle of these things.

 

for someone supposedly neutral asking about why those against someone elses battle smacks of stirring the pot. " Here - no one is looking - you forgot something to nail him with - but remember - I am neutral if anyone asks". That is what I read into this and the more I think about it I was right the first time. No big deal.

 

CAL

[Joanna]

 

What you DID do, Joanna is provided those against me the lighting fluid when they ran out of matches to start the fire. You could have PM'd me like a few others did. You are trying your best to word your way out of that option of PMing me and that is your choice.

 

 

 

That was never my intention. I'm sure they would have thought of it eventually. And I did realize that I was walking into a powder keg.

 

The truth is, I have no idea if you were shilling or not. I tend to think you weren't, just because I haven't seen much more than conjecture supporting the opposite opinion. Benefit of the doubt and all that. I will admit that the shilling emails are the main things that stumped me. It's so illogical for someone to do that. I understand that people can be insufficiently_thoughtful_persons, and yes, I had a couple people ask me to sell them something outside of ebay, or try to offer me their items on the side. I had people ask if I'd mark customs slips as "gifts", etc. I always told them that I don't flout ebay's rules, and I don't lie on official government forms. It was always enough. But asking a stranger to shill is so much bigger than those examples -- like comparing "You look nice tonight" when your wife is looking a tad bloated to "I dint do it, ossifer" when a drunk stumbles from his car after knocking down 3 telephone poles and sideswiping 6 parked cars. The former are just small collusions to circumvent ebay's or the gov's fees. But shilling is collusion to commit a kind of fraud on another human being. It's not "I want to save $5 on fees" but "I want you to help me rip off a stranger for hundreds of dollars. And no, you won't get anything out of it. Only I, a total stranger, will profit." I just find it incredible that someone would do that. And not just one person, but from what you've said, it's happened over and over and over again, and always from different sellers! Surely you can understand why that seems so incredible to a bunch of people who have never heard of anything like that before.

 

Again, I don't think that has anything to do with proving or disproving the shilling accusation. I prefer to think that you don't shill, and will keep that opinion unless some sort of proof slaps me in the face. But I posted because the whole email thing sounded so crazy to me. So why do you suppose they always email you? Do you have a theory or just consider it bad luck?

 

-- Joanna

[Calamerica]

Well, how about you never shilling on eBay?

 

Nope, can't do that either, can you?

 

 

That answer was already provided in one of my long-posted quotes. I guess I gotta go back and find it for you, Mr. Genius. Give me a while.

 

CAL

[Ze-man]

Honestly, I do not think Joanna was required to provide folks lighting fluid.

 

No she was never required to do so - but she did it. In the guise of her words LATER of being [/b]neutral[/b]. End of story.

 

CAL

 

Cmon Cal... joanna did nothing more then ask something I wondered myself... and almost asked but did not.. as I too wanted to avoid the flame war between you and MK.. but it was an obvious question that would have been asked sooner or later. by her or someone else.

"where are the Emails?"

She waited for 10 pages of a thread.. and it was not asked...so she did.

A simple question.. that you took offense to.

And it was clear she had no interest in flaming you, or jumping on anybodys side.

She just asked a qustion.

 

 

And I find it odd.. that you deleted all the Emails of people asking you to Shill ..

I would have thought a list of Emails of the people who were asking you about shilling, would be useful tool to have at your disposal.... when you are on the hunt for a potential Shill auction/bidder down the road..

 

 

Cal.. you are better then this.. but you have let a few flames draw you into a war you did not want or need..and are arguing just to argue now.

 

I still think Pov had sound advice.

It is hard for us to respond if you are silent , and as you say.. you have no reason to defend yourself.

 

So perhaps we all should say good night.

 

 

Z

 

Good night.. I am tired.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Cal, you weren't right the first time.

 

In fact, the more I think on it, the more I think you're very rarely right.

 

I figure a dozen people here have pointed out your hypocrisy, your obfuscation, your tangled web of half-truths and red herrings, and yet you still claim to hold the high ground.

 

You have the self-awareness of Spam.

[Joanna]

 

for someone supposedly neutral asking about why those against someone elses battle smacks of stirring the pot. " Here - no one is looking - you forgot something to nail him with - but remember - I am neutral if anyone asks". That is what I read into this and the more I think about it I was right the first time. No big deal.

 

You don't want me to be neutral, do you? Why are you making it so incredibly diffcult not to join the witchhunt? I really have no interest in shouting, "Shiller!" when there's no proof, but you're beginning to make me wish someone would come up with something. Honestly, Cal, I have no idea why you want the world aligned against you, but consider rethinking that.

 

-- Joanna

[Calamerica]

Again, I don't think that has anything to do with proving or disproving the shilling accusation. I prefer to think that you don't shill, and will keep that opinion unless some sort of proof slaps me in the face. But I posted because the whole email thing sounded so crazy to me. So why do you suppose they always email you? Do you have a theory or just consider it bad luck?

 

A few of them are pranks I am sure.

 

eBay claims that they cannot do anything unless a violation has occurred - words similar to this - so I gave up.

 

I challenged them already to go back to this month's auctions I did not win and start there - if I was shilling it would be obvious and it would be easy for eBay to kick me off. I would get kicked off as would the Seller(s) involved.

 

The first thing I do in the morn is delete hundreds of spams - no exaggeration - they even get in the BULK mail - I have every spam blocker and you name it - my friend put the programs in - but they still get in.

 

The most recent eBayer said( paraphrasing):

 

"Hello Cal: I see you like Iron Man. I am getting ready to list an Iron Man Number 1( I can't recall the auction number anymore) and it is in great shape. can you please bid $45.00 sometime tomorrow during the daytime? I would really appreciate that. Sincerely, Joe" I do remember his sig line was Joe but that is all I can recall. Most of these I skim, then delete. I just cannot devote my entire days to this nonsense.

 

I just checked and I don't have that email. But I will start saving them again and have a separate folder for them.

 

I forgot to say that I don't get as many of these like I did around January/Feb this year when I was bidding like crazy when I had a lot of extra cash sitting around. And I also posted this a few times before about my unhappiness about the quality of comics and I was getting discouraged and became more picky - not a money issue - the Sellers are notorious for overgrading comics.

 

Theory? No I do not have one. Maybe they remember me from another Board, or they think it is OK to solicit bids, I don't have that answer - yet.

 

I did turn a few in at first, but when eBay gave me the run-around, I just started deleting them. Why would I save them? But now I have a good reason to.

 

Believe me I will have my evidence ready. But I want my detractors to prove their case against me.I gotta think up of a way for them to risk something - like quitting the Board or something like that. Once they do that, I will do everything I can prove to get rid of them.

 

CAL

[Calamerica]

You don't want me to be neutral, do you? Why are you making it so incredibly diffcult not to join the witchhunt? I really have no interest in shouting, "Shiller!" when there's no proof, but you're beginning to make me wish someone would come up with something. Honestly, Cal, I have no idea why you want the world aligned against you, but consider rethinking that.

 

-- Joanna

 

what position do you want to take? It is up to you. Don't worry - no one can come up with anything as I am not what they want me to be in this case. If I am beginning to make you wish for someone to come up with something against me, then your position has been "smoked out" like the Queen of Spades in the card game of Hearts.

 

"Hey - I wonder if Forum members pay their Federal taxes properly?." Then an audit starts. The fingers get pointed at me - "hey - I pay my taxes - I am neutral - I can't help it someone found out something wrong that YOU did". But the point here is that I would have snitched when I had no reason to do so. Not the best analogy but I am tired and that is the best I can do here now. More later.

 

CAL

[Joanna]

If I am beginning to make you wish for someone to come up with something against me, then your position has been "smoked out" like the Queen of Spades in the card game of Hearts.

 

 

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about, Cal. Nothing has been smoked out. You are baiting me again. Granted, your biggest piece of bait got erased, but you appear to be doing everything in your power to get me to 'declare against you' despite my having said repeatedly that I don't think you're shilling.

 

Why on earth would you do that? It doesn't make sense.

 

I do thank you for posting the paraphrase of the shill email. It still doesn't make sense to me -- can't understand why anyone would do that -- but it does clarify what you were talking about.

 

I hate it when I can't find the logic behind things. Everyone runs on logic, even if it is their own brand. Usually, if one looks hard enough, one can figure it out. But emails to strangers asking them to commit fraud for no reward? The logic completely escapes me. The risks are too high for both parties. Oh well, some things in this world may never be understood.

 

-- Joanna

[Illiterati-migration]

You don't want me to be neutral, do you? Why are you making it so incredibly diffcult not to join the witchhunt? I really have no interest in shouting, "Shiller!" when there's no proof, but you're beginning to make me wish someone would come up with something. Honestly, Cal, I have no idea why you want the world aligned against you, but consider rethinking that.

 

-- Joanna

 

what position do you want to take? It is up to you. Don't worry - no one can come up with anything as I am not what they want me to be in this case. If I am beginning to make you wish for someone to come up with something against me, then your position has been "smoked out" like the Queen of Spades in the card game of Hearts.

 

"Hey - I wonder if Forum members pay their Federal taxes properly?." Then an audit starts. The fingers get pointed at me - "hey - I pay my taxes - I am neutral - I can't help it someone found out something wrong that YOU did". But the point here is that I would have snitched when I had no reason to do so. Not the best analogy but I am tired and that is the best I can do here now. More later.

 

CAL

 

Please, Cal, Joanna has as much an axe to grind with me as she does you. Note the phrasing of:

 

I really have no interest in shouting, "Shiller!" when there's no proof,

 

[Aman619]

at leasr he spelled theorey right!

 

this is really ridiculous. see ya!

[Illiterati-migration]

at leasr he spelled theorey right!

 

this is really ridiculous. see ya!

 

So we can check "Hammer Shill" off the list of shill-related crimes...

[Calamerica]

That was never my intention. I'm sure they would have thought of it eventually. And I did realize that I was walking into a powder keg.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about, Cal. Nothing has been smoked out. You are baiting me again. Granted, your biggest piece of bait got erased, but you appear to be doing everything in your power to get me to 'declare against you' despite my having said repeatedly that I don't think you're shilling.

 

Yes I edited that other post - and I did this on this occasion - and now I cannot make that claim I did earlier that I never edit posts. I was wrong to post what I did but it is better to get razzed on the editing business than to let the wrong post stand. My anger got the better of me there, and that time I did not have 100% certainty and that is why I erased/edited that part of that post. Knowing you were in the Battle Zone( powder keg) it is very hard not to think the way I do. Why be there in the first place? I wanted you to be part of the solution, not the problem. I am NOT doing everything in my power to get you to declare war on me. If I was really angry, I would declare first.

 

I am not baiting you. If you think I am doing so, tell me and it will cease immediately.

 

It is not in my best interest to shill with anyone, let alone get trapped by a potential enemy. Another reason I stopped my usual practice of buying from another Board was that I was afraid they would get me that way by slamming negs on me. I am very wary - some call it paranoid - of the enemies - and it started over CGC comics vs. "raw" comics. But that nonsense has spilled over here on this Board - and it has worked in the most part. But I am still here and doing well on eBay as a Seller right now. It does not compute for me to gamble away my Power Seller status I just achieved July 17. But they will think what they want to think - some people think that UFO's will invade the Earth and will argue and even fight you to the death over that belief. No reasoning with certain people.

 

CAL

[Illiterati-migration]

I do thank you for posting the paraphrase of the shill email. It still doesn't make sense to me -- can't understand why anyone would do that -- but it does clarify what you were talking about.

 

The "example" he gave would sure lead me to believe that they're doing it to save on listing fees... but who knows how far it goes beyond that?

[Joanna]

 

Knowing you were in the Battle Zone( powder keg) it is very hard not to think the way I do. Why be there in the first place?

 

Curiosity about the emails. The plain, unglorious truth. I'd never heard of such a thing. And it surprised me that no one had asked. I didn't PM because I tend not to think about PMing that much. I answer PMs but only on rare occasions do I PM first.

 

Hopefully, I can make a smooth exit without stepping on any landmines.

 

-- Joanna

[Joanna]

 

The "example" he gave would sure lead me to believe that they're doing it to save on listing fees.

 

True. Still seems risky for the person asking, and there's nothing in it for the potential shill.

 

I'm going to chalk this one up to "I don't get it" and let it go.

 

-- Joanna