Need help with Platinum and Earlier comic identification...

[Soft-Serve]

Hello all,

 

Been making good headway into Golden and Atom age collecting, but have come across lots of Platinum age material lately in local shops. When I say "Platinum Age", I really mean published 1900-1930. My problem is differentiating between your common children's books and a legitimate recognized comic (Overstreet recognition that-is). So much of what is "recognized" in Overstreet would (to me) look exactly like a children's book of yore.

 

I realize that their list of pre-Atom age materials is ever growing, but how do I know if it is something worth buying? (i.e. not listed but would be considered a comic). I can't seem to find any criteria for what denotes a comic. Softcovers don't seem to be important in comic book identifying. Collected comic strips from the 20's like Orphan Annie are hardbound and are in the OSPG. Big Little Books too, and they are mostly text with an illustrated page here an there - just a like a children's book. Obviously it must contain illustrations, but again, there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to what types in and in what quantity.

 

I've had some luck with finding some hardbound Orphan Annie, Skeezix, & Reg'lar Fellars books (that are listed, Cupples and Leon publishers), but there are many others that aren't. So, I'm hoping to post a few pictures here and see if anyone would recommend a purchase (or send me to a site with some info on the various items).

 

**Pics to follow soon...

[Weird Paper]

I'm a long-time Platinum Age collector, so I'm anxiously awaiting your pix.

[jdjunker]

I'm curious to see your pics too. I haven't found much in a while, but I used to pick up all kinds of platimun age things at antique stores, shows, etc...

 

Without seeing your pics yet, the only advice I'd give you is to not worry about Overstreet or other definitions. Obviously, anything with comic characters is going to appeal to at least some comic collectors. Beyond that, considering how cheap most of the children's books and such are, if you find a book and like the art, etc, then you probably can't go wrong. If you like it and think it is interesting, go ahead and buy it. There's a ton of cool stuff out there. Even run of the mill looking kids books, and on closer inspection it turns out the art is by George Carlson. You never know what you'll find.

[Soft-Serve]

Ok, let's start with some books I actually own that aren't in the guide. (if you want to see my Harcover Cupples and Leon books, check on the grading forum, here:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=50&Number=6345193&Searchpage=1&Main=285853&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post6345193)

 

Kellogg's Funny Jungleland Moving-Pictures, 1909

 

This is a neat book, it folds out in to a long strip of paper with it's pages cut into thinner strips that can lay on either side of the opposing pages effectively changing out the heads and feet of the characters there. Softcover.

 

 

 

 

 

The Wonderful "Clownie" Circus by George O. Butler, 1917, Magil-Weinsheimer Co.

 

This is a small book (4"x6") about 30 pages with a full color illustrations every other page.

 

 

 

 

 

[Soft-Serve]

Ok, what follows are books that I am interested in buying, but would like to see what you all think here.

 

Sorry for the poor pictures. In many cases, the shop owners would not approve of it, so these were done sneaky-like. Sadly, I haven't really looked inside of several of these books, but am pretty sure they are Text/Picture in a side-by-side format.

 

Little Pets ABC & Birthday Picture Book (ca 1900)

 

A Bunch of Lemons (ca 1910)

 

 

Three Little Pigs, Uncle Toby Series

 

Ringling Bros Barnum & Bailey Magazine & Daily Review (ca 1915)

 

New York : McLoughlin Bro's, ©1893 (The Frog who would a-wooing go, Sunshine series)

 

 

[Weird Paper]

The Kellogg's book is fairly common and inexpensive. I want to believe some of it is done by Ryan who also did some early Chesler covers. Most of those others would probably fall under the category of children's books, though I'm curious about the "Bunch of Lemons" book. Do you know anything about it -- publisher, date, artist?

[Bookery]

I agree... from what can be seen of them, I would classify these as children's books. I suspect most can be found on ABEBooks.com for pricing and edition information... (I looked up the Clownie Circus, and dealers seem to be asking about $100 for it, though what it might actually sell for could be something else entirely).

 

My feeling on Platinum Age, is that most of it actually reprints newspaper strips, and even the ones that don't still tend to have comics in sequential panels. Overstreet will toss in what I think of as comic-related items periodically... say, a Buster Brown item that is indeed more of an illustrated book than a strip reprint edition, but he usually does that for characters that have an established comic book /strip connection. He is erratic on some Disney items (the Donald Duck linen book is clearly not a comic), and I haven't seen that many Victorian Age books, but I'm guessing they do indeed tend to be more book than comic book.

 

BLBs are sort of their own distinct class of collectible... when Overstreet quit publishing the separate guide to them, he simply folded them into the existing comics guide, as there are a lot of crossover collectors.

 

[Soft-Serve]

I'm curious about the "Bunch of Lemons" book. Do you know anything about it -- publisher, date, artist?

 

Author: Lemons, A. Phew

 

Title: A BUNCH OF LEMONS

 

Publisher: H. M. Caldwell, NY (1908)

[Weird Paper]

That seems spot on. Though, if Overstreet is consistent about anything in this regard, it's in being consistently inconsistent. I've sent in pictures and publishing information on books illustrated by comic artists (McCay, Opper) and non-comic artists that merit inclusion (Flagg) that should be included under the broad umbrella they currently cover, only to get zero response. I'd love to see their scope broaden at least to encompass comparable items to what they currently have.

[Weird Paper]

I'm curious about the "Bunch of Lemons" book. Do you know anything about it -- publisher, date, artist?

 

Author: Lemons, A. Phew

 

Title: A BUNCH OF LEMONS

 

Publisher: H. M. Caldwell, NY (1908)

I looked into it. It's illustrated by F Burr Opper, a significant early comic strip artist, illustrator and cartoonist. I would contend that it should be in Overstreet for that reason. I've never seen it before -- now I have to find one for myself.

[Soft-Serve]

I agree... from what can be seen of them, I would classify these as children's books. I suspect most can be found on ABEBooks.com for pricing and edition information... (I looked up the Clownie Circus, and dealers seem to be asking about $100 for it, though what it might actually sell for could be something else entirely).

 

My feeling on Platinum Age, is that most of it actually reprints newspaper strips, and even the ones that don't still tend to have comics in sequential panels. Overstreet will toss in what I think of as comic-related items periodically... say, a Buster Brown item that is indeed more of an illustrated book than a strip reprint edition, but he usually does that for characters that have an established comic book /strip connection. He is erratic on some Disney items (the Donald Duck linen book is clearly not a comic), and I haven't seen that many Victorian Age books, but I'm guessing they do indeed tend to be more book than comic book.

 

BLBs are sort of their own distinct class of collectible... when Overstreet quit publishing the separate guide to them, he simply folded them into the existing comics guide, as there are a lot of crossover collectors.

 

This is really good information for me, being new to this era. I'm an incurable antique store hound, and have for years largely ignored the periodicals and books. (for some reason after decades of collecting standard comics, it never occurred to me they existed before 1960, and in formats other than GA/SA/MA) Now, it seems everywhere I go, I'm seeing interesting candidates. I must admit a definite allure to this time period. I'm a huge fan humor in general (Mark Twain devotee), and try to incorporate into my own art. So, I enjoy seeing what my great-grandparents, and their parents laughed at.

 

Anyway, I would really appreciate it if you Platinum age experts would take a gander at my grading thread as I'm going to post all 5 of my Cupples & Leon comic strip collections there. Since they are in book format, I don't really know how to handle them grade-wise.

 

PGM Platinum Age Little Orphan Annie #3 The Haunted House - 1928

 

PGM Little Orphan Annie #4 - Bucking the World - 1929

 

PGM Platinum Age Little Orphan Annie #5 never Say Die! - 1930

 

PGM Platinum Age Smitty #1 - 1929

 

PGM Reg'lar Fellars #1 - 1929

 

 

[jdjunker]

Soft-serve, I'm an incurable antique store hound too (along with garage sales, junk shops, etc...). your pics are pretty typical of the variety that can be found. I've seen the Kellogs piece a few times, and it's pretty fun and cool but I never popped for one, as the ones I saw always seemed overpriced.

 

If it's not too steep, i'd be going back for that Bunch of Lemons book. I'm a big Opper fan and that's a nice comics tie-in. The others are fairly typical children's books of the era, and like I said earlier, if you find one you like, and it's cheap just pick it up. However, there are tons of books like this out there, so if you're looking for things that would be considered comic-book precursors, these others aren't quite what you're looking for.

 

Now just keep digging, I'm sure you'll find more cool stuff. One of my best finds was peeling through a stack of children's linen-books. Amongst a bunch of generic titles I found a copy of the 1936 Donald Duck book and the dealer had marked it up to the pricey sum of $15. Of course if you start digging through linen books beware the Uncle Wiggly books. They are nicely done and clearly a comics tie-in, but are pretty common--anything over about $10 is pushing top end. Good luck!

[Soft-Serve]

Yeah, I think I'll go back and get the Bunch of Lemons book. I like the cover at any rate. I thought the Kellogg's book would be more of a comic than many of the hardbound children's books I see, but the format on the inside is problematic. It's got some nice colors though, especially for a 1909 book. I still like it, and I think that's why it's important to buy what you like in the end. A lot of these books I see aren't appealing, and the only motivating factor to buy them is if they are indeed important comic precursors.

 

That Donald Duck was a good find. Usually, the well-known characters are easily spotted by shop owners (and priced accordingly). Still, something that rare is worth it even at a higher price. I was able to get a short stack of 1941-42 Disney Comics and Stories at a local antique store recently for a song. They were a bit brittle, but for $2 each, it's hard to complain.

 

Now that I'm seeing that these rare hardcover bound collections of early comic books runs exist, I'm going to have to look harder....

[Ameri]

Fascinating era. This one is in the guide, published 1913 and was signed by the authors:

 

 

 

 

[Moondog]

I agree... from what can be seen of them, I would classify these as children's books. I suspect most can be found on ABEBooks.com for pricing and edition information... (I looked up the Clownie Circus, and dealers seem to be asking about $100 for it, though what it might actually sell for could be something else entirely).

 

My feeling on Platinum Age, is that most of it actually reprints newspaper strips, and even the ones that don't still tend to have comics in sequential panels. Overstreet will toss in what I think of as comic-related items periodically... say, a Buster Brown item that is indeed more of an illustrated book than a strip reprint edition, but he usually does that for characters that have an established comic book /strip connection. He is erratic on some Disney items (the Donald Duck linen book is clearly not a comic), and I haven't seen that many Victorian Age books, but I'm guessing they do indeed tend to be more book than comic book.

 

BLBs are sort of their own distinct class of collectible... when Overstreet quit publishing the separate guide to them, he simply folded them into the existing comics guide, as there are a lot of crossover collectors.

 

This is really good information for me, being new to this era. I'm an incurable antique store hound, and have for years largely ignored the periodicals and books. (for some reason after decades of collecting standard comics, it never occurred to me they existed before 1960, and in formats other than GA/SA/MA) Now, it seems everywhere I go, I'm seeing interesting candidates. I must admit a definite allure to this time period. I'm a huge fan humor in general (Mark Twain devotee), and try to incorporate into my own art. So, I enjoy seeing what my great-grandparents, and their parents laughed at.

 

Anyway, I would really appreciate it if you Platinum age experts would take a gander at my grading thread as I'm going to post all 5 of my Cupples & Leon comic strip collections there. Since they are in book format, I don't really know how to handle them grade-wise.

 

PGM Platinum Age Little Orphan Annie #3 The Haunted House - 1928

 

PGM Platinum Age Little Orphan Annie #5 never Say Die! - 1930

 

PGM Platinum Age Smitty #1 - 1929

 

Two more yet to be listed....

 

The two Annies look to be VG+. They're pretty common. Usually dealers ask $25-$50. Probably should be in the $15-$25 range.

[Ameri]

Such early Annies seem like an absolute bargain at $50 each. Not a comic, but has anyone ever seen this wooden display of Tighe? Love to find out what year it was made. It's about a 6" by 12" and there's no identifying marks. Homemade?

 

 

[Soft-Serve]

Looks like folk art to me. Pretty hard to nail down a date. Suppose you could test the paint...

[Weird Paper]

Such early Annies seem like an absolute bargain at $50 each. Not a comic, but has anyone ever seen this wooden display of Tighe? Love to find out what year it was made. It's about a 6" by 12" and there's no identifying marks. Homemade?

 

It's probably folk art, though there's a chance it could be part of a shoe store (Buster Brown) display. I've seen a number of wooden, handmade-looking versions of Jiggs, sometimes holding an ashtray.

[BOOT]

A lot of the Platinum and Victorian age is still uncharted ground.

 

One has to be careful or you might get caught up in the whole definition of what a comic book is. In general, a comic book is a publication of at least four pages with at least some comics in it. Comics can be defined as a combination of pictures and words (usually - but some comics are wordless) telling a sequential story. Usually comics have more than one picture, or panel, per page. Some will say that comics must have word balloons, but that is not generally required.

 

A lot of Platinum and Victorian age material is clearly not comics - they are more like children's books. However, there are MANY that are definitely comics. While many contain comic strip reprints, there are many that present original stories.

 

The advent of the internet has given a clearer picture of the availability of some of the Platinum and Victorian comic books. Some have been found to be much more common than anyone expected. They must have sold huge numbers back in their day. While others are revealed to be much more scarce than anyone thought.

 

If you're interested in collecting these as a comic collector, I'd recommend you make sure they are truly comic books. The great thing is, there are many out there that are still undocumented!

 

Happy Hunting!

[BOOT]

Fascinating era. This one is in the guide, published 1913 and was signed by the authors:

 

What a piece of history!

 

Thanks for sharing!