Information, knowledge, and these boards

[PedigreeMan]

I've had a full twenty-four hours to digest all of the current happenings, and felt the need to throw my two cents worth into the mix as well.

 

First, some anecdotes. I talked with Comgeek for all of thirty seconds at last year’s Chicago forum dinner, but in that time he shared more interesting information than most people with a thousand posts here have. About a year and a half ago I called up Chris Foss looking for Spokanes, and got the best twenty minute conversation about pedigrees ever. Two years ago I chatted with Bob Beerbohm only briefly, but walked away feeling like I had learned enough about the comic book world to write a book. One year ago I learned enough about the Edgar Church pedigree from Stuart Degraff to write a book. Over this time I’ve also collected my own set of stories, and have even been able to share a couple of them from time to time. So yes, there’s a lot of information out there, only a fraction of which ever gets mentioned on this public forum.

 

When someone like Zillatoy, Timely, Tripps, Linmoth, Moondog, etc. makes a post on these boards, that post’s substance and history and introspection tends to stand head and shoulders above the petty flame wars and graemlin posts and thousandth thread about pressing or comic-keys or CGG or who’s scamming whom on eBay this hour. It is this quality of post that is the root of this misperceived “BSD worship.” In this world, knowledge is golden and gives worth and value to a person, not some decaying scraps of paper entombed in plastic. For example, if Dave Anderson were to pop on these boards he’d be bombarded with questions running the gamut from his Action #1 to what type of sump-pump system he has in place. But that’s because he has the knowledge and the information we want to make ourselves better -- better posters, better collectors, better conveyors of info … better people.

 

Comgeek’s meltdown last night was his ham-fisted attempt at describing this ideal situation where useful, valid information is shared and exchanged freely and without bias, causing us all to come out better people. This board has the unique potential across the entire Internet to fulfill that goal. I mean, where else on the Web will you find such a deep well of historical figures from the comic book world upon which to draw information? Sure, there are specialized mailing lists that cater to Kirby or Timely/Atlas or original art collectors, but they’re fragmented across all of cyberspace. This board is right here, right now, 24/7, with enough members out there just teeming with knowledge and are (more or less) willing to share. And what do we mostly end up talking about? [!@#%^&^]. Stupid [!@#%^&^], rehashed [!@#%^&^], [!@#%^&^] we have no clue what we’re talking about but still have to give our opinion -- no matter if it’s right or wrong -- on. Is it any wonder so many people with real information and knowledge leave or never join our group in the first place?

 

I wish we could better balance the signal to noise ratio here. But that’s just me. While guys like me and Fantastic Four and FFB are primarily here to soak up info, that’s obviously not the case for everyone. A lot of the dealers here carry the number one goal of selling a book. A number of us are simply here to make friends -- being comic collectors we’re probably introverted and outcast and being around others like us reinforces our belief that we’re “okay” or “normal.” And a very small minority of us derives pleasure from always being right or by somehow illustrating how they’re so much “better” or “smarter” than the rest of us. Everyone exhibits a number of these characteristics throughout their posting career, but one is always dominant. And like a person who collects super-heroes or westerns or funny books or pedigrees, no one is the “ideal” board member. I do feel there are probably better places on the Internet for some of the above activities outside of the first, and the last activity almost always ends up alienating vast tracts of people, but again, that’s just my belief. And you do have to admit that the current motley crew does tend to keep things interesting. But I still wish we could get more informative posts here.

 

And be civil to one another.

 

Alan

[deathlok]

Excellent post Alan.

 

Everyone comes to these boards for a different reason as you mention. There are some collectors on here who as you say don't really care about pedigrees the same way you and others do. It's not right and it's not wrong, it's just the way things are.

 

Flame wars will develop because the message board is very impersonal in nature. Without knowing the person on the other side of the conversation there is no inflection. So things can be said out of context or misrepresented. Not to mention the vast array of backgrounds and social circles we have on the board.

 

Everyone has their own pet peeves on the board also. Some don't like multiple quote posts, some don't like the overuse of graemlins, and some don't like the flame wars. That is their right to dislike them, but they will happen. So people had better choose to accept them or as redhook has chosen to do ignore them.

 

The only thing that is detrimental to the board is a consistant negativity. It decays the harmony of the board, as well as preventing new members from speaking up. We are all in the same hobby, we just enjoy different aspects of it.

 

If we can accomplish two things on the boards, reduce the amount of negative comments and treat each other with more respect, then I think we will all be better off.

 

[The Brain]

well said. i my be in an interesting place , for myself i'm the only collector in my small group of friends off these board that has internet, so i serve as a means to pass on what i learn here to others in the hopes to bring them ON BOARD as it were. i love this place . there has always been for me a feel like i can just be me here, rank me mock me ,rant teach, preach , it don't matter. i get more out of this site than any were else these fingers may take me . comics are about been a kid, taking a trip, with words and pictures. it's escape. it's joy, wonderment, and suprrise,it good stories, great art, and people honning thier craft, simpley it childhood lost.

[PovertyRow]

Well, PM, I am not gonna quote your whole post. But I WILL say you seem to be coming form a place that does not exist, at least in this perception and place and time. That is not a slam.

 

But you mention a few people and say they are seeking this or that. I will be honest, I often post what I consider valid ideas: my main interests are in pre-code and DC BA horror (although my pre-code posts are much more educated as I am just hitting DC BA). AND in restoration, restoration techniques, detection and ethics.

 

Often I get as ticked off as you sound. When I say something like (and have said it a few times over the years) there IS a difference between the way the Chruch books were stored which PREVENTED damage to occur, and compare that to books that are in need of pressing - people usually ignore my idea that a book like in CHurch that had NO NEED of pressing is quite different from a boom that ACQUIRED defetcs that NOW NEED pressing. Do you follow this so far?

 

To continue with my restoration perceptions: I have always said pressing is restoration. I don't care if CGC or anyone can DETECT it. The process itself is an ALTERATION of the book from its previuous condition to its current condition. To me, that IS restoration. But hardly anyone has actually addressed that.

 

 

I have said over and opver again that the purple label tends to make collectors place ALL restoration in the same category - even if that purple label only reads "slight color touch". But to perceive "slight color touch" in the same category as "color touch, pieces replaced, spine reinforced" is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Yet it all comes under the Purple Label so it, apparanlty, is the same thing, except for some folks here.

 

So WHY am I whining like a baby? I'm not. I'm expressing a bit of frustration with some of the things I say on the boards and how they are received. And am also addressing you directly for not mentioning me and my restoration detection and restoration processes posts (that reveal some "secrets"), or for the many GA collector's posts about things like first war covers or first Nazi covers, or about posts dealing with underground comics and their determination, or price variants and their determination, or folks who have made and shared amazing web sites dedicated to MLJ or BA or Atlas Seaboard et al. Or about the posts comparing artists or writers. Or about the ...well - you get the idea.

 

I confess you almost make this sound like an elite place where only the top cream in the glass milk with the cardboard cap reside (sorry younger folks - we used to have those in the Codger days).

 

I DO get frustrated on ocassion when posts I feel are genuinely valid and non-confrontational are ignored. BUT - and it is a BIG but - I receive so much from the folks here - folks you have mentioned and folks you have not - that any frustration I feel is almost a because it means I - well - maybe have to express it better or post in a new topic or whatever.

 

Yes this board DOES have "a unique potential" - but *I* feel that unique potential is already being realized.

 

And that unique potential actually brings something ELSE with it - not just dry facts - it brings humanity, personality, arguments, support - basically EVERYTHING that a person experiences when talking to people at a con, a comic book store or even in work on on the street when you see someone with an Overstreet Guide in their hand and stop to mention it to them.

 

OK - enough form me - I bet most folks never made it passed my 4th sentence - in some ways that is another charming aspect of this place. Because SOME people have made it to here!

[uclapeterg]

I come here to soak up info too!

[The Brain]

total respect for a new found friend in So Cal

[Shield]

or for the many GA collector's posts about things like first war covers or first Nazi covers

or folks who have made and shared amazing web sites dedicated to MLJ

 

Also, POV is THE MAN to learn about Indian Guitars AND Lotus 1-2-3 (and of course, comic book paper preservation/conservation)

[PovertyRow]

THE MAN to learn about Indian Guitars

 

Dang you! Dang you to HECK. It is NOT an Indian Guitar!

[The Brain]

Webster's NewWorld Dictionary Third College Edition

Restoration: a putting, or bringing back into a former,normal,or unimpariied state or condition.

 

Alteration: the resulte of this: change

[PovertyRow]

Restoration: a putting, or bringing back into a former,normal,or unimpariied state or condition.

 

Exactly - a CHANGE - a "bringing back into former, normal or unimparied state". Precisely and precisely why I feel pressing IS restoration. But this is not a resto thread - but do thank you - and remember - a post like that dfoes not need italics - just when you are quoting from another post!

[Shield]

THE MAN to learn about Indian Guitars

 

Dang you! Dang you to HECK. It is NOT an Indian Guitar!

 

Sorry. SITAR!

 

[Aman619]

POV makes great points....somewhere in the middle of that long boring post.

 

so heres mine: hey, this is an internet chat room right? Not comics collecting 101 at Columbia University. I got news for anyone who thinks this place isnt living up to its potential ---- what you see and experience here IS its potential. that's it. For better AND worse. Get used to it. I get scared hearing how much "better" it could be here if only this and if only that were to happen, or if we all chipped in and whatever....

[PovertyRow]

hey, this is an internet chat room right? Not comics collecting 101 at Columbia University. I got news for anyone who thinks this place isnt living up to its potential ---- what you see and experience here IS its potential.

 

I really like the collectong 101 at Columbia ref. It really gets to the core of how I feel as well -this is not all dry facts etc.

 

However, in this particular instance, I DID beat you to your got news for anyone who thinks this place isnt living up to its potential ---- what you see and experience here IS its potential. when I said Yes this board DOES have "a unique potential" - but *I* feel that unique potential is already being realized.

 

 

And yes, this IS an example of joking, jesting, being human etc. BUT - even in the midst of our fun, real ideas ARE ebing conveyed - just depends on one's preference of the delivery system.

[The Brain]

POV you play Sitar? way cool

[Aman619]

gee... I wondered why those pearls of wisdom rolled off my forked tongue so easily like that!!

[deathlok]

POV makes great points....somewhere in the middle of that long boring post.

 

so heres mine: hey, this is an internet chat room right? Not comics collecting 101 at Columbia University. I got news for anyone who thinks this place isnt living up to its potential ---- what you see and experience here IS its potential. that's it. For better AND worse. Get used to it. I get scared hearing how much "better" it could be here if only this and if only that were to happen, or if we all chipped in and whatever....

 

Very true, aman. However if things continue to decline you may find board members rapidly disappear also. Then you will be left with a stagnant message board. I'm not sure if that appeals to you or not.

[PovertyRow]

However if things continue to decline you may find board members rapidly disappear also. Then you will be left with a stagnant message board.

 

Hey DL! I hope you know I really enjoy talking with you here! But having been here a long while now I have seen these "instances" come and go many times. it is almost like a full moon on the boards.

 

Basically I honestly don;t see things continuing to decline. I really just see the typical cyclces I have seen since I've been here.

 

Let's look at things realistically - there have been, even in the midst of the current bruhaha, TONS of posts about comics, storage, bags, boards, art, grades, stories and on and on. In fact, as ALWAYS, the fomic specific topics continue to overwhelm the fighting, joking etc.

 

Now it MAY depend on what folks are reading. I read literally every area, even things that don't really impact my collecting like Modern. So maybe I have a broader view than others. Certainly, I would say if one just stcuk to General or maybe General and one or two other areas, a skewed view may well be achieved.

 

All I'm saying is that the good outweighs the bad here - and that is not a bad thing!

[The Brain]

i would love to buy all of us here a beer so we can all just enjoy what we have.

[deathlok]

You have been here longer than I have, that is true. In the time I have read the boards. I too read almost every single posting that ever goes on, in every forum. So I too feel qualified to say that the state of the boards is more different than it was a year ago. Again, I don't know about prior to this because I wasn't here.

 

Yes, the "old time" board members are generally the same. It's the posts that I think are very different than before. There used to be more comic talk, or at the very least some healthy discussions. Now you can rarely get 5 posts into a thread before someone takes it off topic, ot a flame war erupts.

 

I know this has been going on for some time, almost since the boards began. I know almost all the "old timers" can handle anything that happens. I just wonder how the lurkers and newbies perceive the boards.

[Aman619]

yup. these boards are a moment in time. if they fail, they fail. As much as I enjoy it here, would I mind terribly gettinh a few hours back every day??? But expecting the boards to collapse is as likely as expecting the greta crash....