Nice Silver-Age Marvels on ComicLink

[Fan4Fan]

And exactly how many people are buying 100 thousand dollar books? I think I can count the number on one hand. When creating the post I was addressing the general population, not the .01 percent of the collecting population.

I'm more interested in buying the books because I enjoy them, if they turn a profit that's great.. if they don't, chalk it up to another thing that depreciated. I don't understand the concept that buying high grade books means you HAVE to be investing, it simply doesn't. Buy what you like, I don't like worn books. And I already have long boxes of mid grade copies that I read. Therefore I don't buy them.

 

I definitely agree with the buy-what-you-like-and-not-for-investment idea.

 

However, what I have something of a difficulty with (and I'm not saying anyone should change on account of it) is buying a high-grade comic as essentially art. I have the same problem with Japanese business men buying 100-year old bottles of wine just to put them on display or antique furniture that is never used and just sits to be dusted and admired.

 

I guess my modest upbringing instilled a utilitarian sense in me that a thing should be used for its intended purpose (well, OK, a pliers can sometimes be used as a hammer ) and not just had for having it. Of course, this also is probably the reason that I never cultivated my artistic/writing talents since there wasn't much use for them on the farm.

 

In any event, much wisdom there is in the comfort level justifying the expenditure. There are quite a few books on my want list that will likely stay there forever since I'll never be able to justify to myself even a ratty copy of them.... much less a copy I'd actually want. Too many things are more important in my life, and that is something each one of us decides for themselves.

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

[sfilosa]

Most of the Avengers have been sold in less than one day, so there was definitely some pent up demand for these issues as the right price.

 

The #2 and #3 are pending (and no it's not me).

 

Prime quality books don't last very long.

[clobberintime]

Umm - you must have misread my post. I said 100s or thousands of dollars on comics - not paying $100,000 for one book or spending 100k on books altogether. You folks in denial can go on yacking about how you love comics and just want to see the pretty covers all you want - but I have bought and sold books from most of you. And I bet you just didn't give me a steal price on the books I bought from you like that Spidey 35 - i bet you were happy to get as much as you possible could. Did you make money on the flip? And Mr. filosa how about that FF 53? How long will it be until you resell that ToS 53 you just bought? Most people on here are selling comics - either as outright flips to make money or from upgrading like I do. So a lot of this talk seems less than truthful or realistic. "I don't like ugly books, I only want to look at the pretty cover pictures, I just love comics and want to spend all the disposable money I can on them etc"I t is a little like buying a car. You could buy any car to fulfill basic transporation needs - but there is a lot of choice. What strikes your fancy - a giant suv, a 12 cylinder roadster, a luxury car, environmantally friendly car etc. But even the guy buying the most expensive car knows that one day , he may fall out of love with his ferrari or he might get cancer or his job may end or his inheritance run out etc and he hopes that lovely vehicle is worth something. So while i might buy an FF 12 9.0 because I really love hulk and the pretty colors on the cover, deep down I hope 5 years now, it is worth what I paid for it- or more - just in case.

[drbanner]

Hey, didn't you used to go by the name of "comicinvestor"?

 

(I kill myself sometimes... )

[namisgr]

I think what is laughable is that the idea of spending 100s or thousands of dollars for a plastic encased comic book is not investment but solely for the pleasure of it....So let's stop kidding ourselves please.

 

Sorry, Clobberin, but no kidding here. I have not sold my high grade early Silver age books, some of which have been in my possession for 12 years, except for the occasional copy that gets upgraded from a F or VF. My Bronze books purchased off the rack from '71-'76 aren't going anywhere either. I don't intend to sell for many years to come, if ever (got a 12 year old who is getting into old comics that might get the lot). It's categorically the pleasure of ownership that is at the root of my collecting Jones. I truly love comics, and have read all of my slabbed books in either lower-grade or reprint versions, or as pre-slabbed originals in the case of my Bronze stuff. I think my pleasure of finding, purchasing, and owning is the same motivation for many collectors of coins, stamps, or baseball cards.

 

On a related topic, if someone wants to pay eyeball-popping prices for their books, then that is their business (and that of the seller). It's time we all realize that comic collectors come in many flavors. While some of us lack the compulsion to own top-census copies and pay seemingly ridiculous prices for them, others get off on collecting this way. (End-of-workday rant is now over)

[Fan4Fan]

While some of us lack the compulsion to own top-census copies and pay seemingly ridiculous prices for them, others get off on collecting this way.

 

Hence, their need for having their comics encased in plastic!

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

[sfilosa]

And Mr. filosa how about that FF 53? How long will it be until you resell that ToS 53 you just bought? Most people on here are selling comics - either as outright flips to make money or from upgrading like I do.

 

1) I am clearly a COLLECTOR / INVESTOR / FLIPPER.

Never said I wasn't.

 

2) I sold you the FF #53 for $575.00, which I purchased form ComicLInk a few months ago for $500.00. After paying fees, I probably made a whopping $30-40. I sold the book (just like I sold RedHook my Avengers #58 CGC 9.4) because, I realized that these books are available, pretty much anytime I want to buy one.

 

3) The Tales of Suspense #53 CGC 9.4 (from ComicLink) will most likely not be for sale for a very long time.

 

4) I have collected comic books off adn on for over 25 years, and HAVE ALWAYS been a HIGH GRADE COLLECTOR. I have tried buying Fine's and just don't seem to get much satisfication from them. Basically, I do want to buy books that LOOK PRETTY, but also are somewhat UNCOMMON.

 

5) I almost never Upgrade. As a matter of fact, I am more likely to downgrade (i.e. move form a 9.4 to a 9.2), especially if I don't see a significant difference in the books.

[Aman619]

so I posted the question last night about the comfort level of buying HG runs at todays prices... and just finished catching up on the thread since then, First off, thanx for all the opinions expressed, and I want to reiterate that I did not mean to start a crash thread. A few of the posts veered in that direction, but mostly stayed on course. I dont think prices will crash, again for the record. But as I stated, if they continue upward, so be it. Ill settle with what I have. If they dip Ill decide whether to buy. But admittedly, its always harder than it seems to buy confidently when all others are selling.

 

Anyway, basically, its true that we are all different, and all collect differently with different goals. No ones purchasing plan should dictate what any body else should do. Some invest. Some just LOOOVE pretty HG comics. Im both: I love pretty comics, but after 20 years of buying, well, its really DIFFERENT now is all.

 

So for me, lets just say that the posts pointing out the multiples paid for 9.6 commons brought a smile to my face cause thats what I was trying to say. At this point, Id rather pay for a 9.2 (still a beautiful book) than a 9.4 or 9.6 non-key. Because in time, either the 9.2 will increase following the price-entrenched no-crash 9.4s and 9.6s..... or the 9.4s and 9.6s will come back to earth with 9.2s far less affected (subject to the census effects) with little loss of "investment"

 

And--- today I'd rather take the money necessary to buy a 9.4 Avengers 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8,9 10 -- and buy an Avengers #1 9.4 or a #4 in 9.6. I'd prefer to have the one book with greater demand (albeit at todays high prices) than a string of non-keys at similar multiples of guide. Even here though, 20 to 25K for these books seems as dicey as any of these Avengers copies.

 

Ive said since I got here that to me, given the tens of 1000s Ive spent on comics over the years that buying comics has definitely been with an eye toward getting my money out and at a profit. I share the pleasure of buying and owning a sweet book, as you all do. (Lets face it, I'm buying expensive comics, not wine, cigars, cars, boats or prints so we are all in same wacky monority!!). I realize of course that buying comics ten years ago with this plan was a lot easier (and less risky) than today.

 

I mean, actually it was just as risky as it is today, but at least we knew there was a lot of room for prices to grow! but with guide price 10x what they were then, well, the big runup has largely happened, hasnt it?. Coupled with the CGC effect of the last few years.... well, I have to stop there or the c-word shows up. But today? well, Im not a crashist, but IMO, there is far less room to grow on these prices. Id rather be more picky placing my cash. Is anyone here bullish to say that 10 years from now we'll see prices up 10x again?

 

If this is confusing to read, Im sorry. I stopped and started too many times...

and throughout tried hard not to offend or be inflammatory.

 

Im not sure where prices go from here.... but basically, Im uncomfortable "betting" on commons at these prices. Perhaps if I were buying them today for the first time??? who knows...

[clobberintime]

Well don't you think it is kind of odd that all of a sudden, all these great comics at pretty high prices suddenly appear? There has never been so much high quality stuff available at one time and I have been buying cgc books since day1. I think some folks are thinking things could not get much better and that now is the time to sell. Some folks that sell books for me are urging me to send stuff now - in a hurry! Now is the time to sell! Jamie's story about the X-men 23 9.6 reminds me of selling Valiant books back in the mid 90s. I was at Heroes Con in Charlotte and had a bunch of the early Valiants at like half what tables around me had them for. People were asking me what was wrong with the books and asking me if I was stupid or something for selling them cheap. An inflated market makes people use to crazy, unsubstantiated prices. And no I am not comicinvestorJoe in disguise. I don't see a great crash but prices will not stay like this forever - this present hyper market has only been going a year and boy am I glad I bought my Spidey ann 1, FF ann 1 9.4 and many, mny others before all this started. But Doc Banner I must say that you have far underpriced your beautiful and rare Spidey 300 9.8 and as I buy comics for pure pleasure and just love whimsically spending my money, I must offer you $2000 for that book. That only makes sense since a 9.4 goes for $100 so I figure 20X the nm price should be right for such a beauty. And I am only buying because it is so aesthetically pleasing and i only buy pretty books - and a 9.4 just won't do.

[Aman619]

hey, Clobbering, as much as I appreciate hearing opinions that echo mine, no need to cross the "bashing" line. Who's to say what will happen? As for sellers cashing in..... well, HG books do tend to get snapped up pretty quick at these prices lately.... so there is an argument for selling now. But I always question the guy suggesting the collector sell th ebooks. If they are getting a commission then their opinions are a bit tainted and self serving, right?

 

But, again in trying to stay in the middled of this discussion, taking a little profit now would be prudent advice in the same way that a broker would advise a client not to just let it all ride when the nose starts to bleed at high altitudes, pricewise.

 

missled to middle!

[drbanner]

I must say that you have far underpriced your beautiful and rare Spidey 300 9.8 and as I buy comics for pure pleasure and just love whimsically spending my money, I must offer you $2000 for that book.

 

I'll think about it...

[sfilosa]

Did you think the prices were unreasonable for the books on ComicLink.

 

I for one did not.

 

I agree with you that 9.0 / 9.2 are still excellent books to own, and cost significantly less than 9.4 (or higher). And if present with the same issue that I need, one a 9.0 and one a 9.4 (and over three times the price of the 9.0), I would almost alwasy take the 9.0

 

Lastly, as someone who was buying $1,000 books, well over a decade ago, I THOUGHT PRICES WERE VERY HIGH THEN.

[tth2]

Lastly, as someone who was buying $1,000 books, well over a decade ago, I THOUGHT PRICES WERE VERY HIGH THEN.

 

This is a great point. We ALWAYS think books are expensive at the current time. It's human nature. I've been seriously collecting since the late 1970s and when it comes to SA, there've only been two periods when I thought prices weren't bad: mid-80s during the B&W/Indy craze, and mid- to late-90's, before CGC. And even then I still whined and complained to dealers. It's usually only in hindsight that we realize books were cheap. And no, I'm not saying because prices have trended up for the last 60 years that they're necessarily going to continue to do so. I'm just saying my personal experience in the last 25 years has been I almost always thought I was paying a dear price for books, and in retrospect I always wished I had bought more at those prices.

[Aman619]

I agree totally. I was cursing complaining and negotiating down the high prices then too!! When you buy great books, they have always cost "top dollar". But I addresed that in saying that back then, $1000 was a lot of money, but you got AF15, FF1 etc etc for that amount. AND - - didnt we KNOW FOR SURE that in time we would do fine, that they were "worth" far more??

 

I look back at the Marvels I bought to fill in my runs, and while todays grades are between 7.0 and 9.4 (even though they were all HIGH GRADE then!!!) and the prices recorded are all between $20 ans $120 for non-keys - -- a far cry from $750 to $3500 today.

 

So back then we said the prices are crazy.

And now Im still saying the prices are crazy.

But the difference to me is the actual prices....!

 

anyway, its probably just my perception. Newer collectors buying these books in 9.4 (a super grade that I acknowledge we just never saw back then!!) dont have the same associations of price to book that I (we) have from 10 to 15 years ago. When I (we) see a guide price of $300 (which has alreadyincreased in the past few years taking into account the CGC effect) selling briskly for $2400 I think thats a bit too far over guide all of a sudden.

 

But, in todays eyes for todays buyers, they may be right - - these ARE the correct prices.

I'm not here to condone or criticize anyone.

Or warn anyone of anything.

Just trying to get a feel for whether I'm missing out on these books, or saving myself from foolish buying/accumulation.

I really dont know......

[Aman619]

Lastly, as someone who was buying $1,000 books, well over a decade ago, I THOUGHT PRICES WERE VERY HIGH THEN.

 

This is a great point. We ALWAYS think books are expensive at the current time. It's human nature. I've been seriously collecting since the late 1970s and when it comes to SA, there've only been two periods when I thought prices weren't bad: mid-80s during the B&W/Indy craze, and mid- to late-90's, before CGC. And even then I still whined and complained to dealers. It's usually only in hindsight that we realize books were cheap. And no, I'm not saying because prices have trended up for the last 60 years that they're necessarily going to continue to do so. I'm just saying my personal experience in the last 25 years has been I almost always thought I was paying a dear price for books, and in retrospect I always wished I had bought more at those prices.

 

as I just wrote to Sfilosa, the difference to me that sets off warning bells is back then we spent $300 for a book that sells for 10x that today. And $1000 for book that sells for $10000 now.

 

WE did okay with those purchases.

But buying them today??? Are these buys going to end so happily?

Thats what Im wrestling with.......

We were lucky, prescient, crazy, whatever you feel about how you have done with your comics dollar since then..... (I know Ive done well, sounds like you have too..) but going forward? Dont know....

[sfilosa]

I completely agree that prices, from a real world perspective seem high.

 

But I would also say that, until I see significant decreases in VERY COMMON Bronze-Age and Modern books, I'm not going to worry about large decreases in GA / SA books.

 

While I will toss out the phrase COMMON for Silver-Age books that have say 30 or more certified copies in CGC 9.4 or above, these books really aren't COMMON at all compared to some BA/Modern books (that are selling in the $500-5,000 range).

[Aman619]

I usually use COMMON to refer to comics like its used in baseball cards as all "non-keys" (or stars cards). Meaning common referring to their lower desireabilty to stars, not their availability (census).

[sfilosa]

usually use COMMON to refer to comics like its used in baseball cards as all "non-keys" (or stars cards). Meaning common referring to their lower desireabilty to stars, not their availability (census).

 

 

This is where I think we would have a disagreement.

 

To Preface: I do believe key books will always hold or increase in value more than non-key books. Most of the books that I have had more than 5 years are KEYS (i.e. DD #1, Avengers #1, Strange Tales #110, ASM #14, etc.)

 

BUT (think of it this way)

 

Star players Rookie Card equals Major Key (i.e. Avengers #1)

Star players Non-Rookie Cards equal Collectible (i.e. Avengers other issues)

Other players equal Common (i.e. other TITLES that aren't highly collected)

 

In other words almost all issues of Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man, etc. are at least in the COLLECTIBLE category.

 

I use the term COMMON for comic books based on the amount of CGC copies that have been certified. Therefore, HULK #181 is COMMON up to and including CGC 9.6 (as there are 80 copies certified to date). But it is clearly a MAJOR KEY.

 

Just the way I see it.

[inconceivable]

usually use COMMON to refer to comics like its used in baseball cards as all "non-keys" (or stars cards). Meaning common referring to their lower desireabilty to stars, not their availability (census).

 

 

This is where I think we would have a disagreement.

 

To Preface: I do believe key books will always hold or increase in value more than non-key books. Most of the books that I have had more than 5 years are KEYS (i.e. DD #1, Avengers #1, Strange Tales #110, ASM #14, etc.)

 

BUT (think of it this way)

 

Star players Rookie Card equals Major Key (i.e. Avengers #1)

Star players Non-Rookie Cards equal Collectible (i.e. Avengers other issues)

Other players equal Common (i.e. other TITLES that aren't highly collected)

 

In other words almost all issues of Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man, etc. are at least in the COLLECTIBLE category.

 

I use the term COMMON for comic books based on the amount of CGC copies that have been certified. Therefore, HULK #181 is COMMON up to and including CGC 9.6 (as there are 80 copies certified to date). But it is clearly a MAJOR KEY.

 

Just the way I see it.

I like the baseball card analogy to comic books on several levels. First is what sfilosa discribes for desirability. Non-key comics in high grade can go for a lot of money if they are rare. Likewise, low population baseball cards of even no-name players can reach silly heights for those who are completing high grade sets. If a comic-book character has a bad movie it is the equivalent of failing to make the world-series or having a bad year. Hopefully Wolvie doesn't rupture a hamstring and drop Hulk #181 to common status. Stinking Griffey

 

Dan

[Silver Surfer]

Well there is one on Comic Link for $3,500 so yes I'd say it was a good deal. Love that cover.

 

...you can't really use comic link asking price as a guide,...they are set by the seller,...they could of set it at $4,000.00....

 

Agreed but it just sold for $3,250 so I guess that guy that bought that one on EBay got a nice deal.