90's comic bubble burst

[spreads]

Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

 

It's fun to mock people, retrospectively.

 

Those sales were beaten to death on the VF board regarding first to acquire, value, etc., etc. I was pretty adamant at the time too. I remember seeing 9.6s go for $100 or less and thought a 25 times premium for a .2 CGC grade increase was sheer lunacy! Having said that if the buyer was happy, who cares...there's been more than one recognizable Valiant buyer, who's consistently paid greater than market value.

[Buzzetta]

Hmmphhh

 

I would still like to find a reasonably priced copy of Harbinger 1. That book has maintained it's value. A 9.8 commands around $500

 

 

 

 

 

Well, not really "maintained"...perhaps reestablished. I was buying NM/M copies for $10-20 a pop between 1996 and 2000. I wound up with a couple 9.8's and some 9.6s out of those books. The $500 thing is a creature of "census panic" more than anything else.

 

When no one was subbing these things the census was sparse. There were some sales in the $800-1000 range from the truly desperate. Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

Hmm

 

 

[Buzzetta]

Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

 

It's fun to mock people, retrospectively.

 

Those sales were beaten to death on the VF board regarding first to acquire, value, etc., etc. I was pretty adamant at the time too. I remember seeing 9.6s go for $100 or less and thought a 25 times premium for a .2 CGC grade increase was sheer lunacy! Having said that if the buyer was happy, who cares...there's been more than one recognizable Valiant buyer, who's consistently paid greater than market value.

 

Oh I am one of them... I paid more than what people would believe sensible for some of the Valiant keys I have. However I do not run into many in 9.8 condition anymore as many landed in quarter bins. The pre-unity first appearances are still tough in a 9.8. Even after the Bloodshot craze hit last year there are still only 36 Eternal Warrior #4 9.8's out there. Proportionally the growth in numbers of 9.6 increased more than that of the 9.8's and there are still only 52 of them in the census.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Could someone give me the general overview as to what happened in the 90s as many in the modern section refer to it and im curious to what exactly went down.

 

Thanks

 

I owned a comic shop in the mid-90's and it's hard to pin it to one thing.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Perelman

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Marvel going public in 1989 was the basis for the bursting bubble. When you "connect the dots" back to the beginning you will find Ronald O. Perelman at the center of it all. No matter what particular issue you look at (speculation, foil covers, Image, Valiant, etc.), it can all be traced back to this event.

 

Marvel's going bankrupt in December of 1996 prevented the industry from recovering in a reasonable amount of time. With the industry's largest publisher in bankruptcy, it cast a pall over everything.

 

Thousands of stores closed. Tens of thousands of employees lost their jobs. All but one distributor survived. As an example of the devastation, Capital City Distribution in Madison WI was honored by the state in 1991 with being one of Wisconsin's most responsible and growing businesses. Their enterprise was an entire city block in the heart of Madison. I believe they had 300 employees.

 

They were out of business by 1996.

 

Moondog's employed 40 people in April 1994 when it was acquired by Classics International Entertainment. CIE expanded to 21 stores in five states. We employed over 200 people by that time. All the stores were shuttered and all the employees laid off by May 1996, including close friends who started working for me in 1978.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThoseBackPages]

BRING ON THE BURST!!!

[comix4fun]

Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

 

It's fun to mock people, retrospectively.

 

 

 

Not really mocking, it was simply a lack of thought, a failure to think logically, that's all.

 

There were copies that sold before that time period for $700-900, so this wasn't a situation where it was a "one and only top census" book when it sold for that much. There were other copies and those copies sold for a fraction of the $2550 copy beforehand. With modern books (especially), when there's one, there will be more.

[Buzzetta]

Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

 

It's fun to mock people, retrospectively.

 

 

 

Not really mocking, it was simply a lack of thought, a failure to think logically, that's all.

 

There were copies that sold before that time period for $700-900, so this wasn't a situation where it was a "one and only top census" book when it sold for that much. There were other copies and those copies sold for a fraction of the $2550 copy beforehand. With modern books (especially), when there's one, there will be more.

 

So in all honesty I was wrong for going a buck twenty five on my EW #4? Not trying to provoke an argument here I promise. My reasoning was that I had searched for a 9.8 copy for awhile.

 

Personal reasons were that I loved the cover and it was from one of my favorite comic runs of all time. It was also the "1st appearance" of a major character that is being shopped around Hollywood so there could be an announcement made in the next few months to a year or so. That is not giving reason as far as speculation for resale but speculation so far as trying to beat out the hyper if hype were to occur.

 

Economically raw copies alleged to be in a 9.8 were and still commanding prices of $20-25. Slabbing would have been another $18. I do not know if I would figure shipping into the equation as I would have submitted other books as well. Eternal Warrior #4 would not have been the only one. Then... there is the "wait". It was a copy I really wanted in a 9.8. I dunno... I could not snag the book and even now I still do not see 9.8 copies come up for sale. Either way, it is a book I am still glad to own even if I slightly overpaid. I wound up bringing a copy home for $115 including shipping.

 

Money went to a fellow boardie who auctioned it on eBay.

 

Still love the cover...

 

[AKA Rick]

In the mid-1980's, comic books from twenty years prior, in the mid-1960's seemed really old and valuable

 

In the 1990's, some of the comics from the 1970's started to seem older and valuable like Hulk #181 and those Uncanny X-Men.

 

In the 2000, some of the 1980's books like The Watchmen, John Byrne X-Men and others seemed to spike up.

 

But it seems that's where it ends...

 

...for the most part, you can find a lot of 1990's (and even 1980's) books in junk quarter bin, dollar boxes even in the 2010 decade

 

Where in the 80's, books in the 60's seemed vintage, with a 20 year aging... in the Y2K13, today, books in the mid 80's, which after 30 years of aging and books in the mid 90's, after 20 years of aging, don't seem as old, and where generally speaking the 60's is treasure, the 90's is trash...

 

I think there's still a lot of high grade stuff from the 80's to present, so 9.6's and 9.8's don't seem so impressive since comics were horded and stored as commodities, on top of being overproduced, and in part as someone had mentioned, a demotivating factor to why there's not a lot of high grades out there and books being slabbed is because the grading fees cost more than the books are actually worth, for the most part.

 

 

 

 

[Gatsby77]

Well, not really "maintained"...perhaps reestablished. I was buying NM/M copies for $10-20 a pop between 1996 and 2000. I wound up with a couple 9.8's and some 9.6s out of those books. The $500 thing is a creature of "census panic" more than anything else.

 

When no one was subbing these things the census was sparse. There were some sales in the $800-1000 range from the truly desperate. Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

The same thing happened when Harbinger 1 first exploded after Unity in 1992. In one Overstreet's Update it was valued at $15. And there were no copies to found. My LCS found one and put it on the wall for $35, and folks balked at that price for a 7-month old book.Three month's later the Overstreet's Update priced it at $45, and suddenly they were everywhere, albeit for $50.

 

I also went to conventions where there were literally 100+ copies of Magnus 0 priced between $65 and $100--the joke was, yeah, it's limited to maybe 10,000 copies, but 9,999 copies were for sale at any given time.

 

The same "false census scarcity" has affected books like Punisher Ltd. 1, Batman 428 and Wolverine 35 as well.

[comix4fun]

 

So in all honesty I was wrong for going a buck twenty five on my EW #4? Not trying to provoke an argument here I promise. My reasoning was that I had searched for a 9.8 copy for awhile.

 

 

Probably not. If you searched high and low for a slabbed 9.8 and could not find one for less, it's a lot smarter of you to grab a 9.8 for $125 than it would be to grab 3-4 "possible 9.8's and going through the time and expense to slab them and still end up with a stack of 9.6's.

 

The comparison doesn't scale up to the $2550 book though. The cost of grading, etc. doesn't factor in as material cost factor like it does on slabbing your own books or just buying one for $125.

 

Also. If the $125 book loses half it's value it will not feel like the extreme scrot punch the $2550 book owner feels losing half that value.

 

Basically, the convenience and surety of grabbing that slabbed 9.8 are eventually outstripped by the cost and potential loss at a certain point.

[rjpb]

 

So in all honesty I was wrong for going a buck twenty five on my EW #4? Not trying to provoke an argument here I promise. My reasoning was that I had searched for a 9.8 copy for awhile.

 

Personal reasons were that I loved the cover and it was from one of my favorite comic runs of all time. It was also the "1st appearance" of a major character that is being shopped around Hollywood so there could be an announcement made in the next few months to a year or so. That is not giving reason as far as speculation for resale but speculation so far as trying to beat out the hyper if hype were to occur.

 

Economically raw copies alleged to be in a 9.8 were and still commanding prices of $20-25. Slabbing would have been another $18. I do not know if I would figure shipping into the equation as I would have submitted other books as well. Eternal Warrior #4 would not have been the only one. Then... there is the "wait". It was a copy I really wanted in a 9.8. I dunno... I could not snag the book and even now I still do not see 9.8 copies come up for sale. Either way, it is a book I am still glad to own even if I slightly overpaid. I wound up bringing a copy home for $115 including shipping.

 

Money went to a fellow boardie who auctioned it on eBay.

 

Still love the cover...

 

 

$115 isn't so much if you're impatient and really want a CGC 9.8 copy of a book. I doubt there are too many people who haven't spent 100 bucks on something far more ephemeral and unsatisfying than a favorite comic. On the other hand, if you're counting on a Bloodshot movie to turn it in to a shrewd investment, don't hold your breath. Most every comic book character who's ever existed has been "shopped around" in Hollywood, and even if a movie gets made, one need look no farther than "Steel" to see that doesn't always translate into renewed popularity.

[Buzzetta]

 

So in all honesty I was wrong for going a buck twenty five on my EW #4? Not trying to provoke an argument here I promise. My reasoning was that I had searched for a 9.8 copy for awhile.

 

Personal reasons were that I loved the cover and it was from one of my favorite comic runs of all time. It was also the "1st appearance" of a major character that is being shopped around Hollywood so there could be an announcement made in the next few months to a year or so. That is not giving reason as far as speculation for resale but speculation so far as trying to beat out the hyper if hype were to occur.

 

Economically raw copies alleged to be in a 9.8 were and still commanding prices of $20-25. Slabbing would have been another $18. I do not know if I would figure shipping into the equation as I would have submitted other books as well. Eternal Warrior #4 would not have been the only one. Then... there is the "wait". It was a copy I really wanted in a 9.8. I dunno... I could not snag the book and even now I still do not see 9.8 copies come up for sale. Either way, it is a book I am still glad to own even if I slightly overpaid. I wound up bringing a copy home for $115 including shipping.

 

Money went to a fellow boardie who auctioned it on eBay.

 

Still love the cover...

 

 

$115 isn't so much if you're impatient and really want a CGC 9.8 copy of a book. I doubt there are too many people who haven't spent 100 bucks on something far more ephemeral and unsatisfying than a favorite comic. On the other hand, if you're counting on a Bloodshot movie to turn it in to a shrewd investment, don't hold your breath. Most every comic book character who's ever existed has been "shopped around" in Hollywood, and even if a movie gets made, one need look no farther than "Steel" to see that doesn't always translate into renewed popularity.

 

My investment was solely for personal reasons. If I ever have the time and space I would like to assemble a complete set of books in 9.8. That may be impossible but I would like a complete set of Valiant first appearances in a 9.8.

[FormerReader]

So in all honesty I was wrong for going a buck twenty five on my EW #4? Not trying to provoke an argument here I promise. My reasoning was that I had searched for a 9.8 copy for awhile.

 

Personal reasons were that I loved the cover and it was from one of my favorite comic runs of all time. It was also the "1st appearance" of a major character that is being shopped around Hollywood so there could be an announcement made in the next few months to a year or so. That is not giving reason as far as speculation for resale but speculation so far as trying to beat out the hyper if hype were to occur.

 

Economically raw copies alleged to be in a 9.8 were and still commanding prices of $20-25. Slabbing would have been another $18. I do not know if I would figure shipping into the equation as I would have submitted other books as well. Eternal Warrior #4 would not have been the only one. Then... there is the "wait". It was a copy I really wanted in a 9.8. I dunno... I could not snag the book and even now I still do not see 9.8 copies come up for sale. Either way, it is a book I am still glad to own even if I slightly overpaid. I wound up bringing a copy home for $115 including shipping.

 

Money went to a fellow boardie who auctioned it on eBay.

 

Still love the cover...

 

 

I wouldn't say you were wrong for paying $125 for EW#4 in 9.8. I paid $100 for one off of a member here about a year ago (probably the same member). Is it worth $100. No probably not, but it was worth it to me. I searched and searched and couldn't find one. Is it because there isn't a lot of demand for a 9.8 in this book? Possibly.

 

I got back into collecting in 2011 and went back and bought all the key Valiant issues in 9.8 because I wanted them. I have overpaid in a several instances, but that's ok because I didn't buy them thinking they were going to skyrocket to $2500.

[Bosco685]

Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

 

It's fun to mock people, retrospectively.

 

 

 

Not really mocking, it was simply a lack of thought, a failure to think logically, that's all.

 

There were copies that sold before that time period for $700-900, so this wasn't a situation where it was a "one and only top census" book when it sold for that much. There were other copies and those copies sold for a fraction of the $2550 copy beforehand. With modern books (especially), when there's one, there will be more.

 

So in all honesty I was wrong for going a buck twenty five on my EW #4? Not trying to provoke an argument here I promise. My reasoning was that I had searched for a 9.8 copy for awhile.

 

Personal reasons were that I loved the cover and it was from one of my favorite comic runs of all time. It was also the "1st appearance" of a major character that is being shopped around Hollywood so there could be an announcement made in the next few months to a year or so. That is not giving reason as far as speculation for resale but speculation so far as trying to beat out the hyper if hype were to occur.

 

Economically raw copies alleged to be in a 9.8 were and still commanding prices of $20-25. Slabbing would have been another $18. I do not know if I would figure shipping into the equation as I would have submitted other books as well. Eternal Warrior #4 would not have been the only one. Then... there is the "wait". It was a copy I really wanted in a 9.8. I dunno... I could not snag the book and even now I still do not see 9.8 copies come up for sale. Either way, it is a book I am still glad to own even if I slightly overpaid. I wound up bringing a copy home for $115 including shipping.

 

Money went to a fellow boardie who auctioned it on eBay.

 

Still love the cover...

 

 

Highway robbery.

 

I kept my second copy.

[spreads]

Then all of a sudden someone lost their mind and paid $2550 for one when the census only showed 10 copies or so in that grade. Then everyone subbed them and they've steadily dropped to $500 and are probably on their way down if the the census puts any more 9.8's into the mix. Now there's almost 100 9.8's.

 

 

It's fun to mock people, retrospectively.

 

Those sales were beaten to death on the VF board regarding first to acquire, value, etc., etc. I was pretty adamant at the time too. I remember seeing 9.6s go for $100 or less and thought a 25 times premium for a .2 CGC grade increase was sheer lunacy! Having said that if the buyer was happy, who cares...there's been more than one recognizable Valiant buyer, who's consistently paid greater than market value.

 

Oh I am one of them... I paid more than what people would believe sensible for some of the Valiant keys I have. However I do not run into many in 9.8 condition anymore as many landed in quarter bins. The pre-unity first appearances are still tough in a 9.8. Even after the Bloodshot craze hit last year there are still only 36 Eternal Warrior #4 9.8's out there. Proportionally the growth in numbers of 9.6 increased more than that of the 9.8's and there are still only 52 of them in the census.

 

You don't fit into this category. Some of those HTF commons just aren't available, and you may have to pay that price to get the book (just be weary about getting your money back).

 

My comment was in direct reference to a particular buyer that has consistently paid more than the range of established prices for a book. This one buyer paid the BIN on a BS Platinum for like 5500 (or some absurd amount close to that), easily more than double the previous high, and I'm sure the seller would have accepted a fraction of that price with the BO offer option.

 

Sure that buyer really wanted that book, but if you know you're paying twice the going rate of something, and you have twice the available bankroll to purchase the item, buy it at FMV, then if it comes for sale again around the same price, but a second copy!

[Bosco685]

I wouldn't say you were wrong for paying $125 for EW#4 in 9.8. I paid $100 for one off of a member here about a year ago (probably the same member).

 

Nope. But it would have been a pleasure to help you out, Graham. You are definitely a fellow Valiant nut.

[ThoseBackPages]

wait a minute!

 

you mean to tell me that someone paid what they wanted for something they actually wanted, regardless of what it cost???

[RockMyAmadeus]

So in all honesty I was wrong for going a buck twenty five on my EW #4? Not trying to provoke an argument here I promise. My reasoning was that I had searched for a 9.8 copy for awhile.

 

Personal reasons were that I loved the cover and it was from one of my favorite comic runs of all time. It was also the "1st appearance" of a major character that is being shopped around Hollywood so there could be an announcement made in the next few months to a year or so. That is not giving reason as far as speculation for resale but speculation so far as trying to beat out the hyper if hype were to occur.

 

Economically raw copies alleged to be in a 9.8 were and still commanding prices of $20-25. Slabbing would have been another $18. I do not know if I would figure shipping into the equation as I would have submitted other books as well. Eternal Warrior #4 would not have been the only one. Then... there is the "wait". It was a copy I really wanted in a 9.8. I dunno... I could not snag the book and even now I still do not see 9.8 copies come up for sale. Either way, it is a book I am still glad to own even if I slightly overpaid. I wound up bringing a copy home for $115 including shipping.

 

Money went to a fellow boardie who auctioned it on eBay.

 

Still love the cover...

 

 

I wouldn't say you were wrong for paying $125 for EW#4 in 9.8. I paid $100 for one off of a member here about a year ago

 

[FormerReader]

I wouldn't say you were wrong for paying $125 for EW#4 in 9.8. I paid $100 for one off of a member here about a year ago (probably the same member).

 

Nope. But it would have been a pleasure to help you out, Graham. You are definitely a fellow Valiant nut.

 

You're right on both counts. Different board member and I'm a Valiant nut!