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Top Ten Key Spider-Man issues

Started by ComicBookQuest,

81 posts in this topic

ARWilson-migration

ARWilson-migration

Posted
Posted

I think it's quite telling that on all the posts before mine, there are very, very few references to issues after #300, which was published in 1987 if memory serves me well. That was 25 years ago. That tells us quite a bit of what Marvel hasn't done in moving the Spidey mythos forward -- just a lot of publicity stunts and gimmicks.

 

I don't know if I completely agree with that. It's not so much what hasn't happened in the last 25 years, but what happened in the first 25, relative to making a top-10 list. There are some HUGE books (ASM 2, ASM 6, ASM 15, ASM 20, ASM 25, ASM 31, ASM 129, ASM 238, ASM 252) that aren't easy consensus top-10's. Spidey's just had a ton of significant issues, and it's really hard to say that some books will hold up to the test of time.

 

The last 25 years has been a lot of self-parody and ridiculous publicity-driven story lines to drive up sales. There haven't been a lot of compelling, original characters (good guy or bad guy) with good stories behind the characters. It's been disappointing. More than anything I would like to see the mythos evolve to a point that we all look at, say, 4 or 5 issues from the last 10 years and think, that's absolutely a classic or absolutely a must-have. I see your point -- that the key characters built over the first 25 years necessitate having to give them story time in the last 25 years. I submit that the writers didn't need to do that, nor did they need to come up with ridiculous stuff. Superior Spider-man is a perfect example of all that's been going in the wrong direction the last 25 years.

 

It depends on what standard you're holding them to. In terms of originality, I don't know if there's a whole lot there that's "new" but, again, Spider-Man has a tremendously rich history from which to draw. With the exception of Uncle Ben and Gwen, the fact that no one dies and/or stays dead kind of lessens the need for innovation.

 

But, at the same time, if I were to have to submit a list of (Amazing) Spider-Man keys post #300 that may end up keys (story driven, of course), I'd submit:

 

ASM 361 - First Carnage, an incredibly popular villain.

 

ASM 545 - The reboot. While not as well written, certainly evokes memories of some of the DC 80's reboots like Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Plus it's also the first appearance of Carlie Cooper who is/was a love interest and may be the key to catching "Superior."

ASM 568/569 (I don't know which is considered the "first") - Eddie Brock as Anti-Venom.

ASM 648 - "New" Hobgoblin. "Big time" starts, Peter's life changes considerably (horizon labs)

ASM 654 - Flash as Venom / Death of Marla Jameson.

ASM 700 - Not because of the Superior Stuff (because that seems short lived) but Doc Ock's body is dead.

 

Good list of post-300s, but here lies the problem: #361 (Carnage), #568 (Anti-Venom), #648 (Hobby reboot), and #654 (new venom) are basically self-parodies in some fashion or other. I would add (I better duck here under a table) the last issue of One More Day. Forget the #. That was a very polarizing book and set into motion much of the last 5 years of the mythos while in a sense undoing the prior 15 or so post-MJ marriage years.

 

That's ASM 545. The deal with the devil issue.

 

As far as the parody stuff goes, I guess I agree. To echo what I said before, there's just too much of a rich history to need to do a lot. The only thing they've done that's drastic that seems to have any chance of lasting is the Eddie Brock / Flash Thompson stuff. That Eddie hasn't been Venom in 4(?) years and that Flash has been Venom for 2 kind of speaks to this being long-term.

 

To be sure, there are some good stories in here in the last five years. I liked the new Rhino arc. I liked the Lizard / Billy Connors arc a lot. I even enjoyed Ends of the Earth.

 

Not a whole lot of "new" but that doesn't mean it's been all bad or self parody. I just think the first 25 years of Spidey were so incredible and innovative that it's almost unfair to compare anything else to it.

 

You are obviously a drooling Marvel fanboy, so I can see why you're defending the past 25 years of Spidey drek, but here's 2 words that you can't defend: Humberto Ramos. Worst artist to ever draw Spider-Man, ruins every book he touches. He alone is reason enough not to buy modern ASM.

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TSwift25

TSwift25

Posted
Posted

I think it's quite telling that on all the posts before mine, there are very, very few references to issues after #300, which was published in 1987 if memory serves me well. That was 25 years ago. That tells us quite a bit of what Marvel hasn't done in moving the Spidey mythos forward -- just a lot of publicity stunts and gimmicks.

 

I don't know if I completely agree with that. It's not so much what hasn't happened in the last 25 years, but what happened in the first 25, relative to making a top-10 list. There are some HUGE books (ASM 2, ASM 6, ASM 15, ASM 20, ASM 25, ASM 31, ASM 129, ASM 238, ASM 252) that aren't easy consensus top-10's. Spidey's just had a ton of significant issues, and it's really hard to say that some books will hold up to the test of time.

 

The last 25 years has been a lot of self-parody and ridiculous publicity-driven story lines to drive up sales. There haven't been a lot of compelling, original characters (good guy or bad guy) with good stories behind the characters. It's been disappointing. More than anything I would like to see the mythos evolve to a point that we all look at, say, 4 or 5 issues from the last 10 years and think, that's absolutely a classic or absolutely a must-have. I see your point -- that the key characters built over the first 25 years necessitate having to give them story time in the last 25 years. I submit that the writers didn't need to do that, nor did they need to come up with ridiculous stuff. Superior Spider-man is a perfect example of all that's been going in the wrong direction the last 25 years.

 

It depends on what standard you're holding them to. In terms of originality, I don't know if there's a whole lot there that's "new" but, again, Spider-Man has a tremendously rich history from which to draw. With the exception of Uncle Ben and Gwen, the fact that no one dies and/or stays dead kind of lessens the need for innovation.

 

But, at the same time, if I were to have to submit a list of (Amazing) Spider-Man keys post #300 that may end up keys (story driven, of course), I'd submit:

 

ASM 361 - First Carnage, an incredibly popular villain.

 

ASM 545 - The reboot. While not as well written, certainly evokes memories of some of the DC 80's reboots like Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Plus it's also the first appearance of Carlie Cooper who is/was a love interest and may be the key to catching "Superior."

ASM 568/569 (I don't know which is considered the "first") - Eddie Brock as Anti-Venom.

ASM 648 - "New" Hobgoblin. "Big time" starts, Peter's life changes considerably (horizon labs)

ASM 654 - Flash as Venom / Death of Marla Jameson.

ASM 700 - Not because of the Superior Stuff (because that seems short lived) but Doc Ock's body is dead.

 

Good list of post-300s, but here lies the problem: #361 (Carnage), #568 (Anti-Venom), #648 (Hobby reboot), and #654 (new venom) are basically self-parodies in some fashion or other. I would add (I better duck here under a table) the last issue of One More Day. Forget the #. That was a very polarizing book and set into motion much of the last 5 years of the mythos while in a sense undoing the prior 15 or so post-MJ marriage years.

 

That's ASM 545. The deal with the devil issue.

 

As far as the parody stuff goes, I guess I agree. To echo what I said before, there's just too much of a rich history to need to do a lot. The only thing they've done that's drastic that seems to have any chance of lasting is the Eddie Brock / Flash Thompson stuff. That Eddie hasn't been Venom in 4(?) years and that Flash has been Venom for 2 kind of speaks to this being long-term.

 

To be sure, there are some good stories in here in the last five years. I liked the new Rhino arc. I liked the Lizard / Billy Connors arc a lot. I even enjoyed Ends of the Earth.

 

Not a whole lot of "new" but that doesn't mean it's been all bad or self parody. I just think the first 25 years of Spidey were so incredible and innovative that it's almost unfair to compare anything else to it.

 

You are obviously a drooling Marvel fanboy, so I can see why you're defending the past 25 years of Spidey drek, but here's 2 words that you can't defend: Humberto Ramos. Worst artist to ever draw Spider-Man, ruins every book he touches. He alone is reason enough not to buy modern ASM.

 

:foryou:

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miraclemet

miraclemet

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Posted

You are obviously a drooling Marvel fanboy, so I can see why you're defending the past 25 years of Spidey drek, but here's 2 words that you can't defend: Humberto Ramos. Worst artist to ever draw Spider-Man, ruins every book he touches. He alone is reason enough not to buy modern ASM.

 

While Ramos's physiology can be "wonky" at times, I appreciate his unique stylized approach to comics. Its always a nice change of pace vs some of the photo-shopped, photo-referenced stuff I see from other artists.

 

but hey, its a subjective medium. You absolutely get to have your opinion (and vote with your dollars) as much as I get to have mine.

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Erndog

Erndog

Posted
Posted

I think it's quite telling that on all the posts before mine, there are very, very few references to issues after #300, which was published in 1987 if memory serves me well. That was 25 years ago. That tells us quite a bit of what Marvel hasn't done in moving the Spidey mythos forward -- just a lot of publicity stunts and gimmicks.

 

I don't know if I completely agree with that. It's not so much what hasn't happened in the last 25 years, but what happened in the first 25, relative to making a top-10 list. There are some HUGE books (ASM 2, ASM 6, ASM 15, ASM 20, ASM 25, ASM 31, ASM 129, ASM 238, ASM 252) that aren't easy consensus top-10's. Spidey's just had a ton of significant issues, and it's really hard to say that some books will hold up to the test of time.

 

The last 25 years has been a lot of self-parody and ridiculous publicity-driven story lines to drive up sales. There haven't been a lot of compelling, original characters (good guy or bad guy) with good stories behind the characters. It's been disappointing. More than anything I would like to see the mythos evolve to a point that we all look at, say, 4 or 5 issues from the last 10 years and think, that's absolutely a classic or absolutely a must-have. I see your point -- that the key characters built over the first 25 years necessitate having to give them story time in the last 25 years. I submit that the writers didn't need to do that, nor did they need to come up with ridiculous stuff. Superior Spider-man is a perfect example of all that's been going in the wrong direction the last 25 years.

 

It depends on what standard you're holding them to. In terms of originality, I don't know if there's a whole lot there that's "new" but, again, Spider-Man has a tremendously rich history from which to draw. With the exception of Uncle Ben and Gwen, the fact that no one dies and/or stays dead kind of lessens the need for innovation.

 

But, at the same time, if I were to have to submit a list of (Amazing) Spider-Man keys post #300 that may end up keys (story driven, of course), I'd submit:

 

ASM 361 - First Carnage, an incredibly popular villain.

 

ASM 545 - The reboot. While not as well written, certainly evokes memories of some of the DC 80's reboots like Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Plus it's also the first appearance of Carlie Cooper who is/was a love interest and may be the key to catching "Superior."

ASM 568/569 (I don't know which is considered the "first") - Eddie Brock as Anti-Venom.

ASM 648 - "New" Hobgoblin. "Big time" starts, Peter's life changes considerably (horizon labs)

ASM 654 - Flash as Venom / Death of Marla Jameson.

ASM 700 - Not because of the Superior Stuff (because that seems short lived) but Doc Ock's body is dead.

 

Good list of post-300s, but here lies the problem: #361 (Carnage), #568 (Anti-Venom), #648 (Hobby reboot), and #654 (new venom) are basically self-parodies in some fashion or other. I would add (I better duck here under a table) the last issue of One More Day. Forget the #. That was a very polarizing book and set into motion much of the last 5 years of the mythos while in a sense undoing the prior 15 or so post-MJ marriage years.

 

That's ASM 545. The deal with the devil issue.

 

As far as the parody stuff goes, I guess I agree. To echo what I said before, there's just too much of a rich history to need to do a lot. The only thing they've done that's drastic that seems to have any chance of lasting is the Eddie Brock / Flash Thompson stuff. That Eddie hasn't been Venom in 4(?) years and that Flash has been Venom for 2 kind of speaks to this being long-term.

 

To be sure, there are some good stories in here in the last five years. I liked the new Rhino arc. I liked the Lizard / Billy Connors arc a lot. I even enjoyed Ends of the Earth.

 

Not a whole lot of "new" but that doesn't mean it's been all bad or self parody. I just think the first 25 years of Spidey were so incredible and innovative that it's almost unfair to compare anything else to it.

 

You are obviously a drooling Marvel fanboy, so I can see why you're defending the past 25 years of Spidey drek, but here's 2 words that you can't defend: Humberto Ramos. Worst artist to ever draw Spider-Man, ruins every book he touches. He alone is reason enough not to buy modern ASM.

 

 

So a guy who can appreciate and enjoy story's of possibly his favourite character is a "drooling Marvel fanboy"?

 

Not sure I agree with that.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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Posted
I can't believe #39( although a great book) would beat out ASM #50. (shrug)

 

I think they both belong on the list, but only so many will fit.

Personally, the reason I always saw it as an important issue was that the Goblin discovered Peter's secret identity and over the course of the next 7 years, hold that over him, even when he was suffering from memory loss. It made for great drama everytime Pete saw Norman and he'd start sweating and getting nervous... Good stuff.

It led to some great story arcs in Spectacular Spider-man #2 (Magazine, one of the great under rated Spidey comics), ASM 96-98, and eventually to the death of Gwen and then the Goblin in 121-122.

And it was the first JR SR art on the book.

And a classic cover that had to shock fans when they first saw it on the stands.

 

I think 50 is great, and belongs on the list as well, I just vote for 39 because of all of the above mentioned things.

 

And IMHO, if nothing after 300 was on the list, it wouldn't bother me at all.

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