CGC Gets it right most of the time...

[chrisco37]

As we've all said, they've seemed to be looser on the high end. I think they're right on in the low-mid grade range. But it's always been the higher end stuff where the loose/tight periods occur.

 

I haven't had any books graded in almost a year. Last time I did, I was pleased on the higher grade book I submitted. I thought it was an easy 8.5 with a good chance at 9.0. Came back 9.2.

 

The low grade I had at a 4.0-4.5. Got a 4.0.

 

 

That may have been the case last year, but they've tightened up considerably this year so far ... the 9.8s of yesteryear are coming back 9.6s across the board.

 

9.8 should be tough to pull. Are you talking about Copper/Moderns?

 

For the 9.8s, yeah - but they've tightened on the 9.2+ grades across the board since new years. People who are buying freshly slabbed books right now should be very happy with their purchases.

 

Again, as I said in the posts above, 9.8 should be super tough. 9.4 is an exceptional book for SA. On more recent, 9.6 is a great book.

[VintageComics]

That's a good thing, IMO. 9.4 and better should be an exceptional quality book for SA and older.

 

I have only one Old Label book that I would say was overgraded/loose. I have a few OL 9.4's that are incredible looking and would've easily got 9.6 if I had resubbed in the past two+ years.

 

 

I really have no problem with strict grading. I have a problem with inconsistency. Strict all the time or loose all the time. That's really it.

 

I heard someone here say that the seller wants loose grades and the buyer wants tight grades. Not always true. Just consistency.

 

Sometimes you're standing at a con with two identical graded books in hand of the same issue and then you have to explain why one looks better than the other...rendering one issue harder to sell.

 

Consistency.

[chrisco37]

That's a good thing, IMO. 9.4 and better should be an exceptional quality book for SA and older.

 

I have only one Old Label book that I would say was overgraded/loose. I have a few OL 9.4's that are incredible looking and would've easily got 9.6 if I had resubbed in the past two+ years.

 

 

I really have no problem with strict grading. I have a problem with inconsistency. Strict all the time or loose all the time. That's really it.

 

I heard someone here say that the seller wants loose grades and the buyer wants tight grades. Not always true. Just consistency.

 

Sometimes you're standing at a con with two identical graded books in hand of the same issue and then you have to explain why one looks better than the other...rendering one issue harder to sell.

 

Consistency.

 

Same here. I agree 100%.

[Flaming_Telepath]

That's a good thing, IMO. 9.4 and better should be an exceptional quality book for SA and older.

 

I have only one Old Label book that I would say was overgraded/loose. I have a few OL 9.4's that are incredible looking and would've easily got 9.6 if I had resubbed in the past two+ years.

 

 

I really have no problem with strict grading. I have a problem with inconsistency. Strict all the time or loose all the time. That's really it.

 

That's not actually true, though, is it?

 

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

[VintageComics]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

[VintageComics]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

 

[gaz973]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

Right, if they're grading a book Nick sold as a FN/VF and giving it a 9.0 then they're OBVIOUSLY grading "too tight." as you described it.

 

Even if we say that Nick undergraded it for arguments sake (though I just think he's a damned sight more accurate than most seller), he's not undergrading by a FULL GRADE. He's not selling these books for the fun of it, he's selling to make a profit and therefore has no reason to undergrade.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

 

Orwell is turning in his grave.

[VintageComics]

Orwell is turning in his grave.

 

I don't get the Orwellian reference.

 

You know I know how to grade.

 

You know that I'm not running a charity, I'm a dealer so that I can earn a living.

 

While I don't mind leaving meat on the bone once in a while I am trying to be as fair to myself as I am to the buyer.

 

Am I doing anything wrong by being fair to both myself and the buyer?

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Orwell is turning in his grave.

 

I don't get the Orwellian reference.

 

You know I know how to grade.

 

You know that I'm not running a charity, I'm a dealer so that I can earn a living.

 

While I don't mind leaving meat on the bone once in a while I am trying to be as fair to myself as I am to the buyer.

 

Am I doing anything wrong by being fair to both myself and the buyer?

 

 

Strangely, this is not about you as a seller.

 

It is simply pointing out that when you say you have 'no problem with tight grading at CGC', you clearly have a problem with tight grading at CGC.

 

So much so that you won't submit when there is 'tight grading at CGC'.

 

You are employing double-speak, hence the Orwellian reference.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Am I doing anything wrong by being fair to both myself and the buyer?

 

 

Oh, and this is bollocks.

 

There's nothing wrong with being 'fair' to yourself, if that's how you view it.

 

But don't attempt to convince anybody that refusing to submit the same books to CGC until they loosen standards so that you can get a higher grade and charge the buyer a higher price is ever fair to the buyer.

[passion4comics]

I’ve said this before and was slammed for even mentioning the dead horse on the table. It’s a subjective opinion, but there needs to be a set standard from day one. That means some quantitative guidelines that can be backed up on paper, posted as their guidelines, rather than just a qualitative opinion. There should be no “loose” times or “tight” times. You cannot change your business models way of grading unless you make other changes too. A 9.8 from 2002 should be the same 9.8 as 2013. If you want to change the way you grade then you need to make other changes too. Maybe a different label layout to let buyers know that this is the “new” tight grading system? I would be fine with that.

 

If it’s just an arbitrary change on their system then you’re doing a disservice to your past and future customer base. That Hulk 181 that was a 9.9 may no longer a 9.9 under this system, so then what is it? What is the purpose of the new tight grading system? Being harder on your customer base is fine if you want inconsistency in existing grades to newer grades. Now you’ve introduced a new issue. Personally, I am NOT submitting books anymore and if I do it’s under rare circumstances. I just handed them $1500 over the last couple of months to get slammed on grades. Even after finding out an 8.5 was cracked and pressed it came back as an 8. It’s easier to buy what exists out there slabbed and not deal with losing money just to lose more money. I'm just going to sell what I have on hand that was going to CGC as Raw. I can't compete with books that were bought as 9.0 and hoping for a 9.2 to have them come back as an 8. I don't need CGC to lose money and in this case this is money they will not make either. I scour EBay for hours a day looking for nice books with potential. I take the shot, but I can't do this anymore with the cards stacked against me. I literally have dozens of books I am waiting to grade. Their pricing, the new tighter system, the waiting for months to get my books back, I can't do it anymore.

 

Someone posted photos of a potentially overgraded 9.8. Maybe it was a 9.6? Who knows? A 9.8 can have some defects. That’s why it’s not a 10. If I was buying a book, a defect off the press would not impact my decision as much as a bend or crease. Unless it’s the wrap. That’s a peeve I have about a lot of books that drive me crazy which CGC doesn't take into consideration; which they shouldn't. That's an issue for CVA which I just peel their stickers off anyway.

 

Am I wrong to expect consistency and if they have become lax in grading then that is the model they’ve adopted and not to clamp down now and punish your new customers?

 

[VintageComics]

Strangely, this is not about you as a seller.

 

It is simply pointing out that when you say you have 'no problem with tight grading at CGC', you clearly have a problem with tight grading at CGC.

 

So much so that you won't submit when there is 'tight grading at CGC'.

 

You are employing double-speak, hence the Orwellian reference.

 

You made it about me when you started picking apart my posts to try to make some sort of point which is escaping me.

 

There's obviously is no benefit of the doubt in this conversation and I should have been more clear since my every word is being minced and analyzed.

 

I don't mind tight grading. I myself am a tight grader.

 

What I don't like is when CGC becomes tighter than me if I feel I am grading fairly and consistently.

 

Is that better?

 

 

[VintageComics]

Am I doing anything wrong by being fair to both myself and the buyer?

 

 

Oh, and this is bollocks.

 

There's nothing wrong with being 'fair' to yourself, if that's how you view it.

 

But don't attempt to convince anybody that refusing to submit the same books to CGC until they loosen standards so that you can get a higher grade and charge the buyer a higher price is ever fair to the buyer.

 

An old car mechanic once told me that when someone pays for a product or a service, they are entitled to receive everything they paid for. That way both parties are happy.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

 

[drbanner]

Am I wrong to expect consistency and if they have become lax in grading then that is the model they’ve adopted and not to clamp down now and punish your new customers?

 

No, you are not wrong. Yes, they have historically been inconsistent. Yes, they have been incredibly lax over the last few years. Yes, they appear to have become incredibly tight recently (although I was pleasantly surprised at the grades on my most recent submittals).

 

In the 1st half of CGC's existence they had Steve, Mark, and West all grading books...now they have Matt Nelson down the hall pressing books and Steve, Mark, and West not grading books.

[passion4comics]

They'll have fun picking apart my post. If anyone expresses an opinion with more than a sentence it can be picked apart. I write for people to think about an issue, not necessarily to agree that I am right or wrong. You are expecting consistency. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

You made it about me when you started picking apart my posts to try to make some sort of point which is escaping me.

 

There's obviously is no benefit of the doubt in this conversation and I should have been more clear since my every word is being minced and analyzed.

 

I don't mind tight grading. I myself am a tight grader.

 

What I don't like is when CGC becomes tighter than me if I feel I am grading fairly and consistently.

 

Is that better?

 

[miraclemet]

Someone said somewhere, wondering if the shift to more modern submissions have skewed the graders perceptions.

 

If you spend 90% of your time staring at fresh modern stock trying to decide between a 9.8 and a 9.6, I'm sure your perspective gets skewed when you see a 9.4-ish book from the 60s and it looks like it has lots of flaws vs the volume of perfect copies of Saga you've stared at for hours.

 

Anyone else think this?

 

I'd be curious to see what the submissions graph looks like for modern vs non-modern since CGC opened up. I would think that the submission pie is more moderns than G/S/B vs in years past.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Orwell is turning in his grave.

 

I don't get the Orwellian reference.

 

You know I know how to grade.

 

You know that I'm not running a charity, I'm a dealer so that I can earn a living.

 

While I don't mind leaving meat on the bone once in a while I am trying to be as fair to myself as I am to the buyer.

 

Am I doing anything wrong by being fair to both myself and the buyer?

 

 

Strangely, this is not about you as a seller.

 

It is simply pointing out that when you say you have 'no problem with tight grading at CGC', you clearly have a problem with tight grading at CGC.

 

So much so that you won't submit when there is 'tight grading at CGC'.

 

You are employing double-speak, hence the Orwellian reference.

 

I think it is semantics.

How CGC grades makes little difference if it is consistent.

 

However, since there appear to be clear periods of tighter/looser grading and Roy does have a profit motive, it does not behoove him to submit during a period that he believes is far tighter than another.

 

It is not a tight/loose bias, it is a profit bias. I am sure it would be perfectly fine to Roy if CGC graded on the FT scale, as long as they did it consistently. But why should anyone essentially "give up" their investment capital, based on the whims of a grading company when they feel they can accurately predict the leanings of said grading company?

[The-Collector]

What do you guys think, 9.8 or not.

 

1st pic has a finger bend to the left of the light bulb reflection

2nd pic spine tick that doesn't break color (1/16")

3rd pic is color flecking/fraying along the spine. (production)

4th and 5th pics are the upper in lower spine bindery tears. (production)

 

]

 

Based on the 9.8 on the label I would say this book is a 9.8.