CGC Gets it right most of the time...

[The-Collector]

golly, i was hoping for a few scans of overgraded books (undergrades too, but those are hard to judge over the interweb) and got a lot of "there are plenty of overgrades" but no scans. folks used to post scans all the time. if they're over 10-50% of the time, where are the scans?

 

It's usually considered rude to do so. Most of examples come from current for sale threads, this week in your collection thread or this week back from CGC thread. Hopefully, no one here is that big of a Richard, but people never cease to amaze me.

 

When I posted this several of the more uncouth boardies commented it was over graded.

 

Sorry no post slabbing bc scan.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Strangely, this is not about you as a seller.

 

It is simply pointing out that when you say you have 'no problem with tight grading at CGC', you clearly have a problem with tight grading at CGC.

 

So much so that you won't submit when there is 'tight grading at CGC'.

 

You are employing double-speak, hence the Orwellian reference.

 

You made it about me when you started picking apart my posts to try to make some sort of point which is escaping me.

 

There's obviously is no benefit of the doubt in this conversation and I should have been more clear since my every word is being minced and analyzed.

 

 

Get down off the cross, we need the wood.

 

I made one, solitary point...that you have a problem with tight grading at CGC, as (for whatever reason) you won't submit books during those periods, which ran contrary to your assertion that you don't have a problem with tight grading at CGC.

 

To clear it up for you, if you actually had no problem with tight grading at CGC, you'd submit any book at any time.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong to operate as you do...I'm simply pointing out that you can't say you have no problem with it.

[Flaming_Telepath]

golly, i was hoping for a few scans of overgraded books (undergrades too, but those are hard to judge over the interweb) and got a lot of "there are plenty of overgrades" but no scans. folks used to post scans all the time. if they're over 10-50% of the time, where are the scans?

 

It's usually considered rude to do so. Most of examples come from current for sale threads, this week in your collection thread or this week back from CGC thread. Hopefully, no one here is that big of a Richard, but people never cease to amaze me.

 

When I posted this several of the more uncouth boardies commented it was over graded.

 

Sorry no post slabbing bc scan.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I'd say it is ...it's a 9.0, tops.

 

Sorry.

[VintageComics]

Strangely, this is not about you as a seller.

 

It is simply pointing out that when you say you have 'no problem with tight grading at CGC', you clearly have a problem with tight grading at CGC.

 

So much so that you won't submit when there is 'tight grading at CGC'.

 

You are employing double-speak, hence the Orwellian reference.

 

You made it about me when you started picking apart my posts to try to make some sort of point which is escaping me.

 

There's obviously is no benefit of the doubt in this conversation and I should have been more clear since my every word is being minced and analyzed.

 

 

Get down off the cross, we need the wood.

 

I made one, solitary point...that you have a problem with tight grading at CGC, as (for whatever reason) you won't submit books during those periods, which ran contrary to your assertion that you don't have a problem with tight grading at CGC.

 

To clear it up for you, if you actually had no problem with tight grading at CGC, you'd submit any book at any time.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong to operate as you do...I'm simply pointing out that you can't say you have no problem with it.

 

There's no cross.

 

You did make the conversation about me and then accused me of making it about me.

 

I'm simply trying to get across the language barrier that you and I seem to have once in a while, so I rephrased my comments. If it's allowed in a court of law it should be allowed in a comic book message board...so I'll paste back in those comments that you chose to cut.

 

I don't mind tight grading. I myself am a tight grader.

 

What I don't like is when CGC becomes tighter than me if I feel I am grading fairly and consistently.

 

 

An old car mechanic once told me that when someone pays for a product or a service, they are entitled to receive everything they paid for. That way both parties are happy.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

 

I always did have a communication problem with Ares folk. That's why I divorced the last one.

 

[VintageComics]

golly, i was hoping for a few scans of overgraded books (undergrades too, but those are hard to judge over the interweb) and got a lot of "there are plenty of overgrades" but no scans. folks used to post scans all the time. if they're over 10-50% of the time, where are the scans?

 

It's usually considered rude to do so. Most of examples come from current for sale threads, this week in your collection thread or this week back from CGC thread. Hopefully, no one here is that big of a Richard, but people never cease to amaze me.

 

When I posted this several of the more uncouth boardies commented it was over graded.

 

Sorry no post slabbing bc scan.

 

Unfortunately, I'd say it is ...it's a 9.0, tops.

 

Sorry.

 

...and that is why I think you should sell your raw AF #15's and X-men #1's to me all day long.

 

 

I love you Nick, I really do. Whatever happened to us?

 

 

[The-Collector]

golly, i was hoping for a few scans of overgraded books (undergrades too, but those are hard to judge over the interweb) and got a lot of "there are plenty of overgrades" but no scans. folks used to post scans all the time. if they're over 10-50% of the time, where are the scans?

 

It's usually considered rude to do so. Most of examples come from current for sale threads, this week in your collection thread or this week back from CGC thread. Hopefully, no one here is that big of a Richard, but people never cease to amaze me.

 

When I posted this several of the more uncouth boardies commented it was over graded.

 

Sorry no post slabbing bc scan.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I'd say it is ...it's a 9.0, tops.

 

Sorry.

 

No need to say sorry. To each their own. But I think I will stick with the assigned grade.

 

Interesting to note it was graded in Jan of this year.

[VintageComics]

No need to say sorry. To each their own. But I think I will stick with the assigned grade.

 

Interesting to note it was graded in Jan of this year.

 

To be fair, it's impossible grade accurately from a scan.

 

You can get into a range relatively accurately but you can never really fine tune it without having the book in hand.

 

I've repeated this many times: scanners use digital tech to capture colour, so they make "yes/no" decisions on choices that your eye might not see that way and that will affect and change the way a book looks in a scan.

 

Stuff can appear lighter or darker than on the actual book, misrepresenting the book.

 

Pieces missing? Yeah, you can see those. Creases and bumps? Most of the time.

 

Once you start getting into colour relationships, it becomes guesswork. Tanning, shadows, dirt, even thin stress lines may or may not be accurately represented.

 

You also can't gauge gloss, smell, feel from a scan.

 

Just

 

 

[The-Collector]

No need to say sorry. To each their own. But I think I will stick with the assigned grade.

 

Interesting to note it was graded in Jan of this year.

 

To be fair, it's impossible grade accurately from a scan.

 

You can get into a range relatively accurately but you can never really fine tune it without having the book in hand.

 

I've repeated this many times: scanners use digital tech to capture colour, so they make "yes/no" decisions on choices that will affect and change the way a book looks in a scan.

 

Stuff can appear lighter or darker than on the actual book, misrepresenting the book.

 

Pieces missing? Yeah, you can see those. Creases and bumps? Most of the time.

 

Once you start getting into colour relationships, it becomes guesswork. Tanning, shadows, dirt, even thin stress lines may or may not be accurately represented.

 

You also can't gauge gloss, smell, feel from a scan.

 

Just

 

 

The books from this collection all had really nice gloss and color.

 

[Transplant]

Nobody care about tight or loose grading, OVER THE LONG HAUL. It's consistency that matters. But, if someone believes that CGC is in a "tight period" then it doesn't make sense to submit then. In fact, if everyone was aware precisely when the tight or loose period begins/ends, it wouldn't matter as much either. Certain dates could be used as selling points. "This book was subbed during a known tight period."

 

Of course, I doubt we'd see any sellers boasting, "This book was subbed during a known loose grading period. Buy now to lock in your overgraded slab!"

[mschmidt]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

Right, if they're grading a book Nick sold as a FN/VF and giving it a 9.0 then they're OBVIOUSLY grading "too tight." as you described it.

 

Even if we say that Nick undergraded it for arguments sake (though I just think he's a damned sight more accurate than most seller), he's not undergrading by a FULL GRADE. He's not selling these books for the fun of it, he's selling to make a profit and therefore has no reason to undergrade.

 

Of course, he does. Having a reputation for undergrading is an excellent selling point and should allow him to move books at higher prices than, say, a dealer who is spot-on with his grades.

[VintageComics]

Of course, he does. Having a reputation for undergrading is an excellent selling point and should allow him to move books at higher prices than, say, a dealer who is spot-on with his grades.

 

The obvious thing to point out though, is that Nick is probably not going to sell a high grade Amazing Fantasy #15 undergraded and raw. That book will get graded by CGC.

[Mr.Diggler]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

Right, if they're grading a book Nick sold as a FN/VF and giving it a 9.0 then they're OBVIOUSLY grading "too tight." as you described it.

 

Even if we say that Nick undergraded it for arguments sake (though I just think he's a damned sight more accurate than most seller), he's not undergrading by a FULL GRADE. He's not selling these books for the fun of it, he's selling to make a profit and therefore has no reason to undergrade.

 

Of course, he does. Having a reputation for undergrading is an excellent selling point and should allow him to move books at higher prices than, say, a dealer who is spot-on with his grades.

Spot-on with the CGC and their Yo-Yo grading scale? That would make it impossible to be spot-on.

[gaz973]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

Right, if they're grading a book Nick sold as a FN/VF and giving it a 9.0 then they're OBVIOUSLY grading "too tight." as you described it.

 

Even if we say that Nick undergraded it for arguments sake (though I just think he's a damned sight more accurate than most seller), he's not undergrading by a FULL GRADE. He's not selling these books for the fun of it, he's selling to make a profit and therefore has no reason to undergrade.

 

Of course, he does. Having a reputation for undergrading is an excellent selling point and should allow him to move books at higher prices than, say, a dealer who is spot-on with his grades.

It may pull in more customers but he's not going to get higher prices on a VF graded as a FN/VF then if he graded it as a VF.

 

.... and I know it still doesn't stop people from lowballing him either. So much for people willing to pay higher prices for strict grading.

[mschmidt]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

Right, if they're grading a book Nick sold as a FN/VF and giving it a 9.0 then they're OBVIOUSLY grading "too tight." as you described it.

 

Even if we say that Nick undergraded it for arguments sake (though I just think he's a damned sight more accurate than most seller), he's not undergrading by a FULL GRADE. He's not selling these books for the fun of it, he's selling to make a profit and therefore has no reason to undergrade.

 

Of course, he does. Having a reputation for undergrading is an excellent selling point and should allow him to move books at higher prices than, say, a dealer who is spot-on with his grades.

It may pull in more customers but he's not going to get higher prices on a VF graded as a FN/VF then if he graded it as a VF.

 

.... and I know it still doesn't stop people from lowballing him either. So much for people willing to pay higher prices for strict grading.

 

I beg to differ - Zillaf4 used this business model for many years with great success: undergrade all your books which means that people pay based on whatever grade they think the book might be instead of what it's actually listed at (and quite often overpay whilst doing so).

 

I've seen Nick's sales threads - he has no problem asking full guide for 8.0 - 9.2 common bronze which every other dealer needs to discount in order to move. The only reason they sell at his prices is because people know he undergrades.

[october]

 

 

I beg to differ - Zillaf4 used this business model for many years with great success: undergrade all your books which means that people pay based on whatever grade they think the book might be instead of what it's actually listed at (and quite often overpay whilst doing so).

 

I've seen Nick's sales threads - he has no problem asking full guide for 8.0 - 9.2 common bronze which every other dealer needs to discount in order to move. The only reason they sell at his prices is because people know he undergrades.

 

Excellent point and it's why any seller's raw grade means absolutely nothing to me, be it on here, on eBay or through a dealer. Grading doesn't count for much when large, clear scans are available. The only things that matter are the picture, the price and a list of hidden defects. Some of my best purchases came from a guy who marked all of his books G/VG and VG/F, even though he priced them at guide. I ignored his grades, as I do all grades (including CGC's when buying from my collection) and got killer books out of the deal including a 9.8.

 

In the end, the true grade the seller assigns is hidden in his price and its relation to maket value. As one dealer quipped when asked what grade his $100 book was..."the grade that costs $100".

[MCMiles]

 

Excellent point and it's why any seller's raw grade means absolutely nothing to me, be it on here, on eBay or through a dealer. Grading doesn't count for much when large, clear scans are available. The only things that matter are the picture, the price and a list of hidden defects. Some of my best purchases came from a guy who marked all of his books G/VG and VG/F, even though he priced them at guide. I ignored his grades, as I do all grades (including CGC's when buying from my collection) and got killer books out of the deal including a 9.8.

 

In the end, the true grade the seller assigns is hidden in his price and its relation to maket value. As one dealer quipped when asked what grade his $100 book was..."the grade that costs $100".

 

Dead on assessment.

[Mr.Diggler]

I've heard tight lately from several people.

 

I have a few hundred books that I'm not submitting for that reason.

 

You clearly have a huge problem with tight grading.

 

You're taking my statement out of the greater context of the conversation, though.

 

Why am I not submitting now? Because they will loosen up again later. Because of their inconsistency.

 

I purchased those books with my eye on a specific grade for each book. I paid $X because I expect each book (within a reasonable percentage - usually 80% when they are "middle of the road") to hit a certain grade.

 

If they were consistent all the time I'd never hold any books back but in this case, why would I submit them?

 

 

 

 

You won't.

 

Because CGC are currently 'tight' and you might not hit the grade you wanted.

 

So you have to have a problem with tight grading, the problem being you might not hit the grade you want, so you won't submit.

 

Right, except they are not just tight now, they are too tight.

 

It's relative. I'm a tight grader. You know that as you've already positively commented on it in the past.

 

If CGC is tighter than me there is no incentive for me to submit a book until they get to where I believe they are middle of the road again.

 

If I disliked tight grading I wouldn't be a tight grader myself.

 

 

Right, if they're grading a book Nick sold as a FN/VF and giving it a 9.0 then they're OBVIOUSLY grading "too tight." as you described it.

 

Even if we say that Nick undergraded it for arguments sake (though I just think he's a damned sight more accurate than most seller), he's not undergrading by a FULL GRADE. He's not selling these books for the fun of it, he's selling to make a profit and therefore has no reason to undergrade.

 

Of course, he does. Having a reputation for undergrading is an excellent selling point and should allow him to move books at higher prices than, say, a dealer who is spot-on with his grades.

It may pull in more customers but he's not going to get higher prices on a VF graded as a FN/VF then if he graded it as a VF.

 

.... and I know it still doesn't stop people from lowballing him either. So much for people willing to pay higher prices for strict grading.

 

I beg to differ - Zillaf4 used this business model for many years with great success: undergrade all your books which means that people pay based on whatever grade they think the book might be instead of what it's actually listed at (and quite often overpay whilst doing so).

 

I've seen Nick's sales threads - he has no problem asking full guide for 8.0 - 9.2 common bronze which every other dealer needs to discount in order to move. The only reason they sell at his prices is because people know he undergrades.

Under grades or actually grades spot-on?

[VintageComics]

 

Excellent point and it's why any seller's raw grade means absolutely nothing to me, be it on here, on eBay or through a dealer. Grading doesn't count for much when large, clear scans are available. The only things that matter are the picture, the price and a list of hidden defects. Some of my best purchases came from a guy who marked all of his books G/VG and VG/F, even though he priced them at guide. I ignored his grades, as I do all grades (including CGC's when buying from my collection) and got killer books out of the deal including a 9.8.

 

In the end, the true grade the seller assigns is hidden in his price and its relation to maket value. As one dealer quipped when asked what grade his $100 book was..."the grade that costs $100".

 

Dead on assessment.

 

It is.

 

Even when books are CGC graded, the market decides what books are graded. Overgraded books sell for less, undergraded books sell for much more.

 

And I am going to use that line from now on. Love it.

 

 

[sterlingcomics]

I'd like to think I'm ruthlessly accurate, but that's not the issue.

 

Remember when CGC opened their doors and their first three months' worth of output?

 

That was tight stuff and I found myself in agreement 95% of the time.

 

Unfortunately, it wasn't a sentiment shared by the Big Dealers, who CGC had to appease if the whole idea wasn't going to be still-born.

 

So standards had to be loosened and what could have been a real shake-up of the industry got watered down.

 

And ever since, there has been more and more water added.

 

[Bosco685]

Under grades or actually grades spot-on?

 

UNDERGRADES! Famous for it, and his auctions became a feeding frenzy, with Fine and better books selling for much higher than guide.