The End Of Pedigrees?

[Mr. Zipper]

With the recent Pedigree thread, it got me thinking...

 

I'm sure some gold, silver and bronze pedigrees have yet to be discovered, but when they are all unearthed, will there ever be any pedigrees of modern books?

 

Given that there are tens of thousands of original owner collections in NM/MT containing most important books from the past 20 - 25 years, I can't see pedigrees being designated for condition, paper quality, completeness, etc.

 

The only way I can see pedigrees translating to the modern book era is if the original owner/collector is someone of note. So, we'll see a lot more of the "from the collection of" type pedigrees ("Pedigree" for lack of a better word.)

 

Thoughts?

 

[tth2]

I think there'd be zero market acceptance of any pedigree that contained only BA and/or modern books. As you say, they'd be a dime a dozen. And I believe CGC is on the record saying they wouldn't recognize any such pedigree. It's got to go back to SA, and probably have a pretty deep SA run, to get pedigree designation.

[ultimatevenom]

I could see something like the 'from the collection of' happening with moderns, it would make me sick to see it but i am sure it will happen.

 

Pedigrees shouldn't be like that they should be recognised for a certain quality which they have, nice gloss etc.

[clobberintime]

Doesn't cgc make pedigrees irrelevant anyway? To me it is just another fairly useless item to be listed on the cgc lable so that you can charge more money for the book - kind of like some people do regarding page quality. I guess it means something to those who need to know that their 9.4 or 9.6 is just that much better than your 9.4 - pretty laughable in my estimation.

[sfilosa]

Doesn't cgc make pedigrees irrelevant anyway? To me it is just another fairly useless item to be listed on the cgc lable so that you can charge more money for the book - kind of like some people do regarding page quality. I guess it means something to those who need to know that their 9.4 or 9.6 is just that much better than your 9.4 - pretty laughable in my estimation.

 

 

Without tyring to start a debate, having books that were bought by the same person and stored in the same environment, has a particular appeal to me.

 

Also, many pedigree books have richer colors and gloss than non-pedigree books (especially GA and early SA). So if two books are offered for sale with the same CGC grade and page quality, most likely the pedigree book will have a "FRESHER" look. That's something I want to know and would pay additional dollars for.

[clobberintime]

Well I have books from just about all of them too - because they fit into the slots i needed to fill and not because I was wetting my pants to own a book from some pedigree and they don't look any different to me than any other books with the same grade. If they looked different, wouldn't they have a different grade? And most of these pedigrees come from some really freaky people that I in no way identify with or would like to identify with - like curator, edgar church or especially green river. Can you imagine the personality of the individuals that meticulously stored and treasured pulp paper throw away items? all these people would be in therapy today. Thank god they did what they did, but come on.

[Red Hook]

And probably alot of the general public would slot all of us here ight into the same general category of oddballs.....it's a matter of degree...

[Darthdiesel]

Can you imagine the personality of the individuals that meticulously stored and treasured pulp paper throw away items? all these people would be in therapy today. Thank god they did what they did, but come on.

 

You crack me up.... but the Green River guy seems to be the ultimate manifestation of the "freakishness" described in your post, and could have been the case study for Wertham's SOTI

[drbanner]

Also, many pedigree books have richer colors and gloss than non-pedigree books (especially GA and early SA). So if two books are offered for sale with the same CGC grade and page quality, most likely the pedigree book will have a "FRESHER" look. That's something I want to know and would pay additional dollars for.

 

Hmmm...I've noticed books that are nice and "fresh" (great cover colors, glossy, smooth cover, etc.,.) often times come back higher than initial impression would have indicated (e.g. a tiny cc does not preclude a killer/fresh book from 9.4 or 9.6). I think CGC does incorporate the overall state of preservation of a book, notable in pedigrees but not exclusive to them, in their grades...

[PovertyRow]

Doesn't cgc make pedigrees irrelevant anyway? To me it is just another fairly useless item to be listed on the cgc lable so that you can charge more money for the book - kind of like some people do regarding page quality. I guess it means something to those who need to know that their 9.4 or 9.6 is just that much better than your 9.4 - pretty laughable in my estimation.

 

I don't think CGC makes pedigrees irrelevant. I don't own any yet, but to me a pedigree is just another aspect os "provenance", which is and has been a major factor in the antiques and art market for many years before comics were being collected. Agree or disagree, having a "history" attached to an object adds to its value to many collectors. Just a way of the collecting world.

[Red Hook]

Darth,

 

I think that Captain Tripps is going to be posting the article I put together on the Green River Collection (with mucho help from Shin Kao) up on his website shortly. The usual misconception (understandable because of the name) is that the books were put together by the actual Green River Killer, but again, not true.

 

Once the article is up, you will be able to read more backstory on William Stevens III who may not have been a serial killer, but was definitely a very strange dude.

[Red Hook]

And as for pedigrees in general, I do sometimes feel that it's about the creation of another level of collectibles......I think in some cases the story behind the collection is interesting, or the books really are noteable (like the Mile High Collection). I think the GA pedigrees are more interesting than SA peds because those books really are rare in high grade...

[Darthdiesel]

The usual misconception (understandable because of the name) is that the books were put together by the actual Green River Killer, but again, not true.

 

I understand, but without this erroneous tidbit, it would be yet another story about a "harmless old coot who likes to wrap his books airtight and throw em in a closet", who also like to rub himself with moldy bricks of butter

 

Doesn't the part about using his collection as payment for lawyer fees make the killer a more interesting pedigree owner?

[Ares]

So this means there will be no Ares Pedigree?

[sfilosa]

Also, many pedigree books have richer colors and gloss than non-pedigree books (especially GA and early SA). So if two books are offered for sale with the same CGC grade and page quality, most likely the pedigree book will have a "FRESHER" look. That's something I want to know and would pay additional dollars for.

 

 

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Hmmm...I've noticed books that are nice and "fresh" (great cover colors, glossy, smooth cover, etc.,.) often times come back higher than initial impression would have indicated (e.g. a tiny cc does not preclude a killer/fresh book from 9.4 or 9.6). I think CGC does incorporate the overall state of preservation of a book, notable in pedigrees but not exclusive to them, in their grades...

 

 

I don't disagree with your statement.

 

That said, I would almost always prefer, a beautiful, bright freshing looking copy with a tiny stress line or corner crease to a slightly older / less fresh book with no

crease.

 

And knowing the book is a pedigree can help make that determination.

[Red Hook]

Well Darth, I happen to think it's an interesting story.....I don't know hoot about the other SA pedigrees, or what I do know isn't that interesting. But I also don't expect anybody else to take the same interest in what I collect as I do. Yep, that sounds kinda lame, but it's true.

[Mister_Comics]

(First let me make it clear I have nothing against pedigree books.)

 

Why PEDIGREE? Who decided the word pedigree for these type of books? Every time I hear PEDIGREE I think of DOGS. What does pedigree have to do with comics being owned by ONE PERSON. Wouldn't it of been better to have called these one person owned books... UNCIRCULATED. Or NOT CIRCULATED. I think it would of been more benifical to the hobby. More desirable if the books were called UNCIRCULATED. Pedigree sounds like your breeding these comics in a kennel. UNCIRCULATED coins or stamps sell just fine with all type of collectors. But Pedgree comics seem to sell to a select group of folk.

[Red Hook]

Damned if I know....... I don't think the word "pedigree" appears on the labels.

 

Good quesion .....maybe Single Owner Collection or SOC would be more descriptive.

 

For instance, someone could then say..."Man, that book really SOCs!"

[Red Hook]

I apologize for that.

 

[Red Hook]

I also once suggested to Captain Tripps that any collector who specializes in collecting pedigree books be referred to as a "pedophile", but that didn't go over too well, either.