Archie 1 resto

[vaillant]

It's just not going to fall apart any more.

 

I think THIS is the most important thing.

[gadzukes]

I will post photos of the comic when I get it back from CGC.

 

Fingers crossed on 8.0 or higher.

 

Also fingers crossed on (moderate) resto instead of (extensive). Matt & Kenny told me that it will get an (extensive) resto label, but they told me the same thing when they restored my remaindered copy of xmen 1 and it only got a (moderate) resto label.

[buttock]

I think it was a good choice to restore. Pre-restoration it had some loose pieces on the spine that over time could easily tear off or 'wear' off. The restoration not only makes the book look better, it makes the book safer to handle and helps to conserve the book and prevent handling damage.

 

Slabbing is the best way to preserve, not restoration.

 

I'm reminded of a recent trip to my local comic shop and I thumbed through DC"s new golden age anthology HC book where it presented super high resolution photos of first issues from their famous golden age titles. Surprisingly these copies weren't high graded at all. Low grade and beat up. But it's then when I realized that these golden age books are artifacts, and in the "musuem" quality photos of these historic books, that despite their dirty aged appearance, the way they were looked absolutely perfect.

 

Have you ever been to an antique car museum? They DO NOT leave the cars in the old beat up, dented, scratched, rusted condition. They restore the cars beautifully. Should they have left them as beat up shells? It's interesting to see an old rusted hulk of a car out in the farmers field, but you're going to want to restore it if you pull it out of the field.

 

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

[Ze-man]

I think it was a good choice to restore. Pre-restoration it had some loose pieces on the spine that over time could easily tear off or 'wear' off. The restoration not only makes the book look better, it makes the book safer to handle and helps to conserve the book and prevent handling damage.

 

Slabbing is the best way to preserve, not restoration.

 

I'm reminded of a recent trip to my local comic shop and I thumbed through DC"s new golden age anthology HC book where it presented super high resolution photos of first issues from their famous golden age titles. Surprisingly these copies weren't high graded at all. Low grade and beat up. But it's then when I realized that these golden age books are artifacts, and in the "musuem" quality photos of these historic books, that despite their dirty aged appearance, the way they were looked absolutely perfect.

 

Have you ever been to an antique car museum? They DO NOT leave the cars in the old beat up, dented, scratched, rusted condition. They restore the cars beautifully. Should they have left them as beat up shells? It's interesting to see an old rusted hulk of a car out in the farmers field, but you're going to want to restore it if you pull it out of the field.

 

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

 

True, but people read comic books.

 

And after being around both for years, I actually like the cars to comics analogy in regards to extensive restoration.

 

Both take rare, but mass produced items that are in enough disrepair to warrant working on them.

 

And typically both collectors like their items to look as nice as possible once restored.

 

With the main difference being restored cars are more accepted at this point then restored comics.

 

Yeah, there is more to it that.

 

But it basically comes down to the same process.

 

Strip'um down.

Build'um up

Make'um look good.

 

 

[Ze-man]

 

 

It's all well and good that you have a differing opinion about what books should, or should not be restored. But to say so in a thread made by the owner of the book in question?

 

Well that's in really poor taste, and the very definition of thread crahping.

 

not crahping if the OP asked "what do you think"

 

Fair enough.

 

But can I still say it was in poor taste?

 

[MrBedrock]

One point no one has mentioned (and Kenny won't toot his own horn) is that all of the resto that Kenny has done there is removable. So down the road, if someone wants that book unrestored they can have Kenny turn it back into a blue labeled, falling apart, unreadable 1.5.

[Calidream'n]

I think it was a good choice to restore. Pre-restoration it had some loose pieces on the spine that over time could easily tear off or 'wear' off. The restoration not only makes the book look better, it makes the book safer to handle and helps to conserve the book and prevent handling damage.

 

Slabbing is the best way to preserve, not restoration.

 

I'm reminded of a recent trip to my local comic shop and I thumbed through DC"s new golden age anthology HC book where it presented super high resolution photos of first issues from their famous golden age titles. Surprisingly these copies weren't high graded at all. Low grade and beat up. But it's then when I realized that these golden age books are artifacts, and in the "musuem" quality photos of these historic books, that despite their dirty aged appearance, the way they were looked absolutely perfect.

 

Have you ever been to an antique car museum? They DO NOT leave the cars in the old beat up, dented, scratched, rusted condition. They restore the cars beautifully. Should they have left them as beat up shells? It's interesting to see an old rusted hulk of a car out in the farmers field, but you're going to want to restore it if you pull it out of the field.

 

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

And people drink water. What's your point? The poster's point is that both could be considered "works of art". You can make an old classic car functional/driveable if it isn't, without restoring it. Likewise, you can read an old comic without restoring it. The restoration (if needed) brings back its original glory.

If given the choice between owning this particular book in original 1.5 condition or restored 9.0/9.2, I'd go with the restored all the way. It's gorgeous now.

[gadzukes]

One point no one has mentioned (and Kenny won't toot his own horn) is that all of the resto that Kenny has done there is removable. So down the road, if someone wants that book unrestored they can have Kenny turn it back into a blue labeled, falling apart, unreadable 1.5.

 

As brilliant as Kenny's work is I don't think that all of his work can be removed. I believe he cleaned the comic which means that it will always get a restored label even if all of his other work is reversed. Maybe Zeman can chime in on that aspect to confirm.

[gadzukes]

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

 

Cars: You Drive = use/enjoy/collect

Comics: You Read = use/enjoy/collect

 

Car: Breaks down over time from use/time/elements

Comics: Break down over time from use(multiple readings)/time/elements

 

Car: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

Comics: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

 

Old Cars: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

Old Comics: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

 

I actually think it IS apples and apples.

Unfortunately.....

Car: restoration is acceptable

Comics: restoration is not acceptable to a major amount of collectors

[vaillant]

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

 

Cars: You Drive = use/enjoy/collect

Comics: You Read = use/enjoy/collect

 

Car: Breaks down over time from use/time/elements

Comics: Break down over time from use(multiple readings)/time/elements

 

Car: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

Comics: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

 

Old Cars: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

Old Comics: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

 

I actually think it IS apples and apples.

Unfortunately.....

Car: restoration is acceptable

Comics: restoration is not acceptable to a major amount of collectors

 

(thumbs u

 

Actually, I "drive" my comics when i want to show them to friends.

[ft88]

The cars analogy just doesn't fly, especially with the easy comparisons used above that are way too simplistic. If you think a car <==> comic, shouldn't we color touch every comic out there?

 

If I get a micro scratch on my '55 Chevy and I color touch it, nobody blinks an eye. I'm just going to assume all of us thing that color touching an otherwise VF Amazing Fantasy 15 is a bad idea.

 

And that's why color touch was so rampant in the 1980s. You had a high grade Spiderman 28 with one crease line. A tight VF. But with the magic of a sharpie, it became a NM. That's completely different with a convertible top on a car that needs a 3 inch tear fixed. Fix the tear and celebrate.

 

Comic books, like many collectibles (furniture, coins), but not all collectibles (cars, some posters, fine art) the marketplace prefers unrestored poor condition to restored but "looks better" condition. And there are degrees of restoration (or other techniques not considered restoration) as well as degrees of poor condition.

 

This one is borderline. But without book in hand, I'd suggest this is not an unreadable comic, not even close, and the current owner never suggested it was unreadable. Kenny's work is/was great, but I prefer the original. Yes he owns it and can do with it as he wants, and is much happier with it restored than otherwise. He asked what we all thought. I guess I'd question, why have it slabbed but again, personal preference trumps here.

 

Mostly these comparisons of comics to cars is simply unjustified.

 

[Boba]

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

 

Cars: You Drive = use/enjoy/collect

Comics: You Read = use/enjoy/collect

 

Car: Breaks down over time from use/time/elements

Comics: Break down over time from use(multiple readings)/time/elements

 

Car: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

Comics: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

 

Old Cars: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

Old Comics: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

 

I actually think it IS apples and apples.

Unfortunately.....

Car: restoration is acceptable

Comics: restoration is not acceptable to a major amount of collectors

 

Totally agree with this (thumbs u

[Boba]

The cars analogy just doesn't fly, especially with the easy comparisons used above that are way too simplistic. If you think a car <==> comic, shouldn't we color touch every comic out there?

 

If I get a micro scratch on my '55 Chevy and I color touch it, nobody blinks an eye. I'm just going to assume all of us thing that color touching an otherwise VF Amazing Fantasy 15 is a bad idea.

 

And that's why color touch was so rampant in the 1980s. You had a high grade Spiderman 28 with one crease line. A tight VF. But with the magic of a sharpie, it became a NM. That's completely different with a convertible top on a car that needs a 3 inch tear fixed. Fix the tear and celebrate.

 

Comic books, like many collectibles (furniture, coins), but not all acquired (cars, some posters, fine art) the marketplace prefers unrestored poor condition to restored but "looks better" condition. And there are degrees of restoration (or other techniques not considered restoration) as well as degrees of poor condition.

 

This one is borderline. But without book in hand, I'd suggest this is not an unreadable comic, not even close, and the current owner never suggested it was unreadable. Kenny's work is/was great, but I prefer the original. Yes he owns it and can do with it as he wants, and is much happier with it restored than otherwise. He asked what we all thought. I guess I'd question, why have it slabbed but again, personal preference trumps here.

 

Mostly these comparisons of comics to cars is simply unjustified.

 

 

There's two distinct groups of car collectors - the ones who collect 100% original cars with some dings and dents it collected throughout it's life, and the ones who want a nice looking, reliable driving specimen that they can cruise in and enjoy.

 

One is basically a trailer-queen, while the other can be a daily-driver. In the same respect and 7.0 AF #15 in a blue slab vs one that has been restored to that grade and can be handled and read without fear of losing a fortune by damaging it.

[Calidream'n]

The cars analogy just doesn't fly, especially with the easy comparisons used above that are way too simplistic. If you think a car <==> comic, shouldn't we color touch every comic out there?

 

If I get a micro scratch on my '55 Chevy and I color touch it, nobody blinks an eye. I'm just going to assume all of us thing that color touching an otherwise VF Amazing Fantasy 15 is a bad idea.

 

And that's why color touch was so rampant in the 1980s. You had a high grade Spiderman 28 with one crease line. A tight VF. But with the magic of a sharpie, it became a NM. That's completely different with a convertible top on a car that needs a 3 inch tear fixed. Fix the tear and celebrate.

 

Comic books, like many collectibles (furniture, coins), but not all collectibles (cars, some posters, fine art) the marketplace prefers unrestored poor condition to restored but "looks better" condition. And there are degrees of restoration (or other techniques not considered restoration) as well as degrees of poor condition.

 

This one is borderline. But without book in hand, I'd suggest this is not an unreadable comic, not even close, and the current owner never suggested it was unreadable. Kenny's work is/was great, but I prefer the original. Yes he owns it and can do with it as he wants, and is much happier with it restored than otherwise. He asked what we all thought. I guess I'd question, why have it slabbed but again, personal preference trumps here.

 

Mostly these comparisons of comics to cars is simply unjustified.

 

Value is just one aspect that makes this a completely legitimate comparison.

If you can find an unrestored, extremely low mile 1964 1/2 or 65 Mustang, all original with nothing changed, it is worth a bundle. (more than a nicely restored old Mustang) Same is true if you find an unrestored, barely read AF 15.

[Ze-man]

The cars analogy just doesn't fly, especially with the easy comparisons used above that are way too simplistic. If you think a car <==> comic, shouldn't we color touch every comic out there?

 

If I get a micro scratch on my '55 Chevy and I color touch it, nobody blinks an eye. I'm just going to assume all of us thing that color touching an otherwise VF Amazing Fantasy 15 is a bad idea.

I think those saying cars and comic restoration being similar, were talking about Extensive work on previously restored comics, or comics in a state of disrepair that handling them warrants work being done to preserve the book.

 

Nobody is saying we should CT an otherwise VF comic, just for aesthetics. The stigma from this very practice decades ago, still clings to what we are doing today.

 

 

But without book in hand, I'd suggest this is not an unreadable comic, not even close, and the current owner never suggested it was unreadable

While it was not unreadable, it was not exactly safe to handle. The tear on the first wrap was pretty severe,centerfolds detached, and the cover was a whisker away from being totally split. Let alone the fact it was completely detached.

It was his choice to max this book out, some will agree..others won't. No different I suppose then most every other aspect of our hobby.

 

Mostly these comparisons of comics to cars is simply unjustified.

Again, in as far as both cars and comics being extensively restored. The processes really are quite similar.

Both require steps that repair damage to rusted out buckets of parts, and repaint the affected areas.

 

That's all I was ever trying to say, and not exactly a point I care to hammer home with anyone, it was just an observation.

[skypinkblu]

Purple, I am SO proud of you!

[Ze-man]

Purple, I am SO proud of you!

 

It's boy blue all the way, "I'm a maan baby"

[Ze-man]

I believe he cleaned the comic which means that it will always get a restored label even if all of his other work is reversed.

 

This is n fact true, and a flaw in the whole "professional resto means archival materials were used, so it can be reversed" definition.

 

While I used archival stainless steel wash bins, and distilled water. The cover was in fact washed, and will forever remain with the book.

 

As far as the rest?.. I could remove it all, ..if that was what somebody really wanted done.

 

 

[gadzukes]

Zeman, how does CGC detect washing/cleaning? Are there some tell tale signs (besides being clean)? Are you using more than distilled water? Are there some chemicals involved?

 

If I let my kids read it for a year with their grubby hands would CGC be able to detect the cleaning?

[bluechip]

The cars analogy just doesn't fly, especially with the easy comparisons used above that are way too simplistic. If you think a car <==> comic, shouldn't we color touch every comic out there?

 

If I get a micro scratch on my '55 Chevy and I color touch it, nobody blinks an eye. I'm just going to assume all of us thing that color touching an otherwise VF Amazing Fantasy 15 is a bad idea.

 

And that's why color touch was so rampant in the 1980s. You had a high grade Spiderman 28 with one crease line. A tight VF. But with the magic of a sharpie, it became a NM. That's completely different with a convertible top on a car that needs a 3 inch tear fixed. Fix the tear and celebrate.

 

Comic books, like many collectibles (furniture, coins), but not all acquired (cars, some posters, fine art) the marketplace prefers unrestored poor condition to restored but "looks better" condition. And there are degrees of restoration (or other techniques not considered restoration) as well as degrees of poor condition.

 

This one is borderline. But without book in hand, I'd suggest this is not an unreadable comic, not even close, and the current owner never suggested it was unreadable. Kenny's work is/was great, but I prefer the original. Yes he owns it and can do with it as he wants, and is much happier with it restored than otherwise. He asked what we all thought. I guess I'd question, why have it slabbed but again, personal preference trumps here.

 

Mostly these comparisons of comics to cars is simply unjustified.

 

 

There's two distinct groups of car collectors - the ones who collect 100% original cars with some dings and dents it collected throughout it's life, and the ones who want a nice looking, reliable driving specimen that they can cruise in and enjoy.

 

One is basically a trailer-queen, while the other can be a daily-driver. In the same respect and 7.0 AF #15 in a blue slab vs one that has been restored to that grade and can be handled and read without fear of losing a fortune by damaging it.

 

There's actually antique car collectors who prefer cars not only to be restored but modified with luxurious extras. And they have classifications, such as restored and modified restored, all of which are accepted without people running up and down the aisles at car shows calling people crooks for defiling their own cars and/or thinking it's enough simply to say it's restored without also saying "and it's been destroyed" or "it's a frankencar" or "there must be some label or something we can put on these cars so that people who like and buy them will stop liking and buying them and realize they are wrong and the car's virginity has been violated."