Archie 1 resto

[gadzukes]

There's actually antique car collectors who prefer cars not only to be restored but modified with luxurious extras. And they have classifications, such as restored and modified restored, all of which are accepted without people running up and down the aisles at car shows calling people crooks for defiling their own cars and/or thinking it's enough simply to say it's restored without also saying "and it's been destroyed" or "it's a frankencar" or "there must be some label or something we can put on these cars so that people who like and buy them will stop liking and buying them and realize they are wrong and the car's virginity has been violated."

 

[Boba]

True. And don't forget the look-alikes or repros of rare cars like, Shelby Cobras and Mustangs, GTO's, various Hemi Chryslers, L88 Vettes, and other rare cars that are copied down to the enth degree. Kinda like building a book from parts - AKA married pages, covers, etc. Not the real thing but someone is sure happy to have it.

[ft88]

Oy, my brain hurts. I guess everything is like everything else. All metaphors apply, even mixed ones.

 

This thread is like a hog dressed up in a tuxedo at at hot dog eating contest.

 

There's something wrong with it but you just aren't sure what.

[Calidream'n]

Oy, my brain hurts. I guess everything is like everything else. All metaphors apply, even mixed ones.

 

This thread is like a hog dressed up in a tuxedo at at hot dog eating contest.

 

There's something wrong with it but you just aren't sure what.

No, everything is not just like everything else. But, in the discussion of restored vs unrestored comics, classic cars are in fact, a good analogy.

There are many similarities from a collector's viewpoint. Of course there are obvious differences, but that's all nit-picking. On the face of it, and if for no other reason, it's a good comparision because they are both collectibles that can come both restored and original. (with the perfect condition original bringing in the highest dollar amount)

[buttock]

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

 

Cars: You Drive = use/enjoy/collect

Comics: You Read = use/enjoy/collect

 

Car: Breaks down over time from use/time/elements

Comics: Break down over time from use(multiple readings)/time/elements

 

Car: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

Comics: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

 

Old Cars: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

Old Comics: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

 

I actually think it IS apples and apples.

Unfortunately.....

Car: restoration is acceptable

Comics: restoration is not acceptable to a major amount of collectors

 

A car that's beat up can't be driven -- it's original purpose is lost and needs to be restored to get back to that point.

 

A comic that's beat up can still be read -- its original purpose remains preserved.

 

If you're going to talk about restoration, which IS the whole discussion in this thread, then it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. If you want to get nebulous, then you can fabricate similarities until the cows come home. Both have colors. Both have atoms. Both have names. Both taste bad. ad infinitum

 

 

[buttock]

I think it was a good choice to restore. Pre-restoration it had some loose pieces on the spine that over time could easily tear off or 'wear' off. The restoration not only makes the book look better, it makes the book safer to handle and helps to conserve the book and prevent handling damage.

 

Slabbing is the best way to preserve, not restoration.

 

I'm reminded of a recent trip to my local comic shop and I thumbed through DC"s new golden age anthology HC book where it presented super high resolution photos of first issues from their famous golden age titles. Surprisingly these copies weren't high graded at all. Low grade and beat up. But it's then when I realized that these golden age books are artifacts, and in the "musuem" quality photos of these historic books, that despite their dirty aged appearance, the way they were looked absolutely perfect.

 

Have you ever been to an antique car museum? They DO NOT leave the cars in the old beat up, dented, scratched, rusted condition. They restore the cars beautifully. Should they have left them as beat up shells? It's interesting to see an old rusted hulk of a car out in the farmers field, but you're going to want to restore it if you pull it out of the field.

 

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

And people drink water. What's your point? The poster's point is that both could be considered "works of art". You can make an old classic car functional/driveable if it isn't, without restoring it. Likewise, you can read an old comic without restoring it. The restoration (if needed) brings back its original glory.

If given the choice between owning this particular book in original 1.5 condition or restored 9.0/9.2, I'd go with the restored all the way. It's gorgeous now.

 

Huh???

 

 

[The-Collector]

Anyone care to offer a guess at grade potential?

 

So hard to tell from scans as the work sometimes has dimension I.e waviness that is hard/impossible to evaluate in a scan. Looks vf- or higher to me.

 

I would have left this book alone.

 

 

[Calidream'n]

People drive cars. People don't drive comic books. Apples-to-oranges.

 

Cars: You Drive = use/enjoy/collect

Comics: You Read = use/enjoy/collect

 

Car: Breaks down over time from use/time/elements

Comics: Break down over time from use(multiple readings)/time/elements

 

Car: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

Comics: Some get trashed and discarded, others are cherished and preserved

 

Old Cars: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

Old Comics: Take you back to a nostalgic time in your life

 

I actually think it IS apples and apples.

Unfortunately.....

Car: restoration is acceptable

Comics: restoration is not acceptable to a major amount of collectors

 

A car that's beat up can't be driven -- it's original purpose is lost and needs to be restored to get back to that point.

 

A comic that's beat up can still be read -- its original purpose remains preserved.

 

If you're going to talk about restoration, which IS the whole discussion in this thread, then it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. If you want to get nebulous, then you can fabricate similarities until the cows come home. Both have colors. Both have atoms. Both have names. Both taste bad. ad infinitum

 

Of course a car that's beat up can be driven; it just doesnt look pretty. When it loses its function, it's comparable to a comic that can't be read without fear of it breaking apart. That's when resto is indicated. I have no idea why some people can't agree that classic cars/old comics are a good comparision. I think it's the closest comparision among collectibles there is.

[gadzukes]

Anyone care to offer a guess at grade potential?

 

I would have left this book alone.

 

 

For those who think I should have left the Archie 1 alone.... is there a grade point where you would have had resto performed on the comic? 1.0? Is it a case by case basis? Or are you simply 100% against resto?

 

 

 

[Jeffro.]

Anyone care to offer a guess at grade potential?

 

I would have left this book alone.

 

 

For those who think I should have left the Archie 1 alone.... is there a grade point where you would have had resto performed on the comic? 1.0? Is it a case by case basis? Or are you simply 100% against resto?

 

In general I am not a fan or resto. An untouched book to me will always be preferable than one that has been altered. I get it that improving aesthetics and improving the state of preservation or simply halting any further damage are strong motivators for getting comics restored but to me a strong motivator is knowing that a comic, even in low grades, has not been touched at all.

 

That said, I am in awe of some of the resto jobs I see done here and elsewhere. It really is an art.

 

 

[Boba]

It's ok to disagree really. No women or small children will perish as a result.

 

Some folks adore restored things - some folks abhor them. Different strokes for different folks, that's all.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

Agreed.

However, this is the internet. A certain amount of angst is mandatory.

[The-Collector]

Anyone care to offer a guess at grade potential?

 

I would have left this book alone.

 

 

For those who think I should have left the Archie 1 alone.... is there a grade point where you would have had resto performed on the comic? 1.0? Is it a case by case basis? Or are you simply 100% against resto?

 

In general I am not a fan or resto. An untouched book to me will always be preferable than one that has been altered. I get it that improving aesthetics and improving the state of preservation or simply halting any further damage are strong motivators for getting comics restored but to me a strong motivator is knowing that a comic, even in low grades, has not been touched at all.

 

That said, I am in awe of some of the resto jobs I see done here and elsewhere. It really is an art.

 

 

+1.

 

Though I will caveat that with the fact that I will buy restored books and have had poor restoration fixed. But won't initiate the first restoration of a book.

 

I also think cars/comics are a good comparison. You pay a big premium for original books just like original matching number cars. Though on the flip side comics seem to be penalized more for restoration than cars. So like in most arguments both sides are correct and wrong.

[B-Smooth]

As more and more old books continue to deteriorate, restoration will slowly be more accepted. It's just the nature of the paper used. The internet told me this, therefore it must be true.

[Artboy99]

just curious if your book is the 8.0 restored offered in the May Heritage auction?

 

[Ze-man]

just curious if your book is the 8.0 restored offered in the May Heritage auction?

 

Not the same book.

 

Todd's is still at CGC I believe.

[gadzukes]

 

 

[gadzukes]

I just got my Archie 1 restored copy back from CGC.

 

7.0 moderate P

 

I'm pretty disappointed. I keep looking at the 8.0 Achie 1 resto that's up on heritage right now and I've been comparing mine to that one.

 

I know what that one looked like when it was raw, I know what mine looked like when it was raw.

Mine started out way superior to that one.

Same person did the work on both copies.

That one gets an 8.0 mine gets a 7.0.

 

I'm fine with a 7.0... it is what it is, but I feel that mine is superior to the 8.0 so that's where I'm disappointed. So few of these are graded that it seems like CGC could be more consistent with the grades on these. Don't they have a photo archive that they can bring up on these super rare comics to make side by side comparisons?

 

I thought I'd post some photos.

The work is really good on both copies, so my hat is off the restoration artist who worked on these, but still.... I'm trying not to sound like "sour grapes", but I feel mine is superior.

 

Here is what a portion of raw fronts looked like:

Heritage 8.0 (probably started out as a 1.0)

My 7.0 (started out as a 1.5-1.8)

 

 

 

[gadzukes]

Finished Heritage 8.0

 

My finished 7.0

[gadzukes]

Like I say, great work on both copies, but when you look closer at the details, that's when I start to wonder what CGC is looking at when they give the grades out.