Avengers #500 Director's Cut - Good luck...

[MutantKeys]

I understand that but why cant I find this book and why is this book worth $30.00

[Kermit the frog]

thaanks for clearing this up...now i see why they seem to disapear.

[MutantKeys]

I wouldnt pay that for a recent book

[Kermit the frog]

I understand that but why cant I find this book and why is this book worth $30.00

 

30$?!!!!!! where did you saw that price label?!?!?!

 

and some people talk that modern comics are worth 0.00 cents, .

[Jayman]

NYX 3 is the first appearance of X-23, who has powers similar to Wolverine. Rumor is that she is his daughter and they have announced that they are going to address this issue in upcoming issues of Claremont's X-Men book.

 

Is NYX cancelled or just delayed? Any info?

[Kevin Boyd]

I don't think it's been cancelled, but Josh Middleton left/was fired from the series about three or four months ago. Last I heard they had found a replacement for him to finish it, but they haven't announced the release date for the next issue yet.

[shadroch]

NYX 3 is the first appearance of X-23, who has powers similar to Wolverine. Rumor is that she is his daughter and they have announced that they are going to address this issue in upcoming issues of Claremont's X-Men book.

 

Kinda reminds me of the rush to buy X-men201 at crazy prices,since everyone was sure tis was the first appearence of Cable.

[deathlok]

Except modern books are hoarded much more than Gold, silver, or bronze age books.

 

The perfect example is just look at the modern submission rates and the number of 9.8's. Now compare those same numbers to any bronze, silver, and gold age.

 

That's why modern books will never be scarce or worth money. Except for perceived value, which is caused by speculators.

 

Please explain to me, very slowly, how a book such as a typical Avengers issue that has a print-run of some 25,000 is being hoarded more than a 1970s Avengers issue that had a print-run of 350,000?Do you know anyone that is putting away hundreds of copys of each and every Marvel that comes out? Know anyone that buys by the case,anymore? How about buying simply multiples of most isues?

What are the chances,in your opinion, of someone ten years from now discovering a warehouse full of one million uncirculated post-2000 comics?

 

It has been mentioned several times on these boards, that there are companies that buy cases of issues of all Modern books.

 

Is this the quote you asked me about? Or are you going to say that companies are not dealers?

I said companies not dealers shad, show me where I said dealers.

[awe4one]

NYX 3 is the first appearance of X-23, who has powers similar to Wolverine. Rumor is that she is his daughter and they have announced that they are going to address this issue in upcoming issues of Claremont's X-Men book.

 

Kinda reminds me of the rush to buy X-men201 at crazy prices,since everyone was sure tis was the first appearence of Cable.

 

Well it was....

 

Unless of course they retconned Cable from being Nathan Summers while I wasn't looking....

 

Jim

[shadroch]

Except modern books are hoarded much more than Gold, silver, or bronze age books.

 

The perfect example is just look at the modern submission rates and the number of 9.8's. Now compare those same numbers to any bronze, silver, and gold age.

 

That's why modern books will never be scarce or worth money. Except for perceived value, which is caused by speculators.

 

Please explain to me, very slowly, how a book such as a typical Avengers issue that has a print-run of some 25,000 is being hoarded more than a 1970s Avengers issue that had a print-run of 350,000?Do you know anyone that is putting away hundreds of copys of each and every Marvel that comes out? Know anyone that buys by the case,anymore? How about buying simply multiples of most isues?

What are the chances,in your opinion, of someone ten years from now discovering a warehouse full of one million uncirculated post-2000 comics?

 

It has been mentioned several times on these boards, that there are companies that buy cases of issues of all Modern books.

 

Is this the quote you asked me about? Or are you going to say that companies are not dealers?

I said companies not dealers shad, show me where I said dealers.

 

Let me guess,Mile High is a company.not a dealer....

Metropolis is a company,not a dealer.....

Your ploy is as obvious as your ignorance here.

These COMPANIES that you are referring to,they must spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per month buying cases of every modern book,.. so who are they? Surely a company that can afford to spend multiple millions a year buying all this product must have a public face?To buy a single copy of every issue on Diamonds top 100 list would run in excess of $2,300 dollars a month at retail. Even at 50% off and free shipping,the amounts of capital needed to do what you suggest is being done would be staggering.

[Aman619]

Shad I agree with 90% of what you are saying about new comics. The numbers are down, and stores now order to sell out every copy. Very few stores are putting aside extra copies for a rainy day.

 

But I think Deathlok is referring to those few unofficial "sub-distributors". Companies/ dealers with out stores (or with stores) that DO buy quantities of books to fill re-orders for stores who cant get them from Diamond anymore. I have heard LCS owners tell me about them...but have no details. Perhaps deathlok has heard about them too.

 

at any rate, they cannot be accummulating 1/10th as many as these guys were back in the 90s due to the lower print runs. So whatever piles of unsold books they cant sell now and become a warehouse find in the future will be modest as these things go.

[shadroch]

Unless Diamond has recently changed their contracts,they sell only to RETAIl accounts,that have bonifide retail credentials. They were not selling to wholesales. They are the wholesaler.To reiterate,they are the EXCLUSIVE DC wholesale agent and any of their accounts found selling books to another Diamond account is up the creek,so to speak.

There were a few business's that attempted to corner the recent back-issue markets in the 90s,the bankruptcy of Kingpin pretty much showed this to be folly.While there are some people who will still buy a case or two of certain comics(myself included),to make blatantly wrong statements that there are dealers(companies) out there buying cases of every modern book is borderline stupid.

If anything,its the lack of speculation that is hurting the current market.Getting a few big speculators back onto the field would certainly help everyones rather anemic numbers.

[deathlok]

Shad I agree with 90% of what you are saying about new comics. The numbers are down, and stores now order to sell out every copy. Very few stores are putting aside extra copies for a rainy day.

 

But I think Deathlok is referring to those few unofficial "sub-distributors". Companies/ dealers with out stores (or with stores) that DO buy quantities of books to fill re-orders for stores who cant get them from Diamond anymore. I have heard LCS owners tell me about them...but have no details. Perhaps deathlok has heard about them too.

 

at any rate, they cannot be accummulating 1/10th as many as these guys were back in the 90s due to the lower print runs. So whatever piles of unsold books they cant sell now and become a warehouse find in the future will be modest as these things go.

Thank you Aman.

[Aman619]

sounds like you are both exaggerrating each others positions, but from experience, I know much of thats comes from a no-holds-barred argument style very popular here on the boards. I dont wantresearch this whole thread in order to sit down and spell out all the details and make a strong argument of what I agree with, and what I dont... but, IMO YES circulation is down significantly which means there just are going to be fewer copies around for collectors going forward. But there might still be more than enough to go around given the anticipated fewer # of colectors. And I think there will be small pockets of unsold books, but probably only those keys that develop over time and are considered worthless today. These sub distributors currently sell out of anything thats 'hot' today. (unless they have actually begun to put aside MORE than they can sell again??). The other wild card will be that out of todays 30,000 print runs, we have to assume that nearly all of them are finding homes in collections. And - -they are being well-cared for too. So if and when these collections reach the market, there will be a new supply of them for those that want them. If they triclke out, the prices will be much better than their 80s and 90s cousins though! Course, the standard for HG will be 9.8 so we might still have plenty of low grade (p.2 and 9.4s!!) selling at reasonable prices.....

 

sorry to butt in on your argument!!!

[shadroch]

 

 

It has been mentioned several times on these boards, that there are companies that buy cases of issues of all Modern books.

 

Is this the quote you asked me about? Or are you going to say that companies are not dealers? I said companies not dealers shad, show me where I said dealers.

 

I'm still waiting......who or where are these companies that are buying cases of issues of all modern books?

Aside from ..."been mentioned several times on these boards"(by whom?) and aman saying a dealer made some vague referece to something similar,do you have any thing else to offer?

[Silver Surfer]

I remember a few months back there was a thread about availability of books from '68-'70 (Sub-Mariner, TTA, Hulk, Siler Surfer, etc) and Capt Tripps had mentioned that he recalled certain dealers had boxes of these books at the time. I'm sure that there are still dealers who still hoard boxes of issues and store them away for years but somehow I doubt that this happens as much as it use to.

[shadroch]

Lets put it this way- It was a hell of a lot easier to hoard comics when $300 a month would buy you a hundred copies of the entire line of Marvel comics each month.

To purchase the same amount of copies of Marvels output these days would require an outlay an unbelievable amount of capital.

Grabbing the first Comics and Games Retailer issue I could find,here's some figures.

From the Feb,2004 issue,using Diamonds final sales sats for the November 2003 order cycle.

The average price of a comic was $3.09

cover-price for 100 copies=$309

assuming the 50% discount given to larger accounts(top20%of accounts) wholesale cost of100 copies would be$154.50

Assuming the company only bought Marvel and DCs, that would be 149 books .To make it a bit easier lets throw in one more book and round it up to 150 books.

!50 books x 100 copies =15,000 books

15,000 books x an average cost of $1.54=$23,100

On a yearly basis $23,100 x 12 months=$277,200

This is only for Marvel and DCs,you'd have to assume someone doing this would be purchasing at least some Image,Crossgen,Dreamwave or some other book.Add in the cost of shipping,and storing these books and a realistic outlay would be at least $350,000 a year.

Are there dealers or companies buying some stock for future use-Absolutely.

But if anyone thinks that there are mysterious companies buying cases of every comic printed after looking at these figures,I'm not sure what to say.

BTW-a case is most often 300 copies so multiply all the above figures by three to determine the costs of buying them by the case. $1,000,000 dollars a year wouldn't come close to doing it.

Besides which-If there were companies doing this,wouldn't that mean that they expected these books to go up in value.

 

[blowout]

To purchase the same amount of copies of Marvels output these days would require an outlay an unbelievable amount of capital.

 

And a considerable amount of foolishness.

[Darthdiesel]

Not taking sides here... I think Lighthouse mentioned in a post once how Greg Buls would "over-order" on books he would feel would sell out that week from LCS shelves and then these LCS's would go back to him and buy up more copies at $1-$5 (retailer variants and incentives were much more) over cover depending how hot. Then DC changed the way they did things and no longer wanted Buls and other folks like him being able to provide these "relief" copies because they were keeping LCS's from going back to Diamond to place reorders. If I'm way off here, sorry...

[Kevin Boyd]

You are not off-base Darth. But sub-distributing is not allowed by current Diamond accounts, anyone caught doing it will have their Diamond account status revoked.

 

I have had contact at the offices of four publishers - Top Cow, Dreamwave, Udon & Aardvark-Vanaheim. Here's how I understand how they work - Diamond preorders come in - let's say the order is for 13, 789 copies of book "XYZAB". Their printer offers them a discount on round numbers, so they will likely order 15,000 copies and send Diamond their order with the excess copies available for reorders for 30-90 days. If they have not sold all excess copies by the end of that time then Diamond sends them back to the company. The company can then do what they want with the books - some sell the books at conventions, others store them indefinitely and sometimes they will strike a deal to sell the excess copies to the LCS near them (or a few).