PedigreeMan Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Won this on Ebay last night. I'm 99% sure it's a Bethlehem book. Interesting. I'd never seen a date stamp like that on any Bethlehems before, so I checked Heritage's archive. The only CGCed Bethlehems there with a "D-prefixed" stamp are some "Mysteries of Unexplored Worlds" and a "Forbidden Worlds." The cream to off-white pages are a good indicator .... I'm curious if there are any dust shadows on the back ... if so, I'd agree with you 100%, Tom. If not ... like I said, it's interesting. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackandpresstoan11 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 This is another Bethlehem book I bought 15 years ago w/ the "D" date stamp in red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackandpresstoan11 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 ...also a book from Marnin's site listed as a Bethlehem. The guy on Ebay had a few Hawkman's that were Bethlehems but not labeled by CGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedigreeMan Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 CGC blows another one! Good pick-up on your part, Tom! And good eyes, also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hook Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Nice pickup Tom! BTW...I posted this before but it seemed appropriate when discussing missed pedigree copies....I found this Green River book sitting on a dealers site. No pedigree notation. But the date is a perfect match for a couple of labeled GRs I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfilosa Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 I don't expect CGC to determine a pedigree, if the submitter doesn't supply any information. Yes, if they see what they believe to be a Edgar Church/Larson or other top pedigree book (that has very distiquishing marks), I could see them going out of their way to determine if it's a pedigree. But surely not for Green River or Bethlehem (unless the Bethlehem book had the store stamp on the back). Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hook Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Oh, I agree with you Steve. I do not think it's CGC's responsibility on this issue. But it's still fun finding one. If I were able to afford the book pictured above I would buy it and resub it for the designation. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedigreeMan Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I don't expect CGC to determine a pedigree, if the submitter doesn't supply any information. Yes, if they see what they believe to be a Edgar Church/Larson or other top pedigree book (that has very distiquishing marks), I could see them going out of their way to determine if it's a pedigree. But surely not for Green River or Bethlehem (unless the Bethlehem book had the store stamp on the back). But aren't the date stamps just as unique as any store stamp? Sure, they're not as obvious at first glance, but once you see enough of them you start to get a feel for what's what. I'm sure Brad can pick out a GR by the date stamp alone, Tom clearly knows what he's looking for with Bethlehems, and I can pick a Salida out by smell (the date stamps on them just make it easier ). CGC has certainly seen a lot more of these books (Salidas excluded) than the aforementioned gents, so why should we give them a pass in identifying pedigrees? Especially when they have a guy on staff whose business card reads "Pedigree Expert." Unidentified pedigrees with no markings whatsoever, of course, are a whole other case, but even those can be identified (or ruled out) with a bit of investigation. After all, someone from CGC called Jeff (nearmint) up thinking a book with no distinguished markings he had submitted was an Edgar Church copy .... Ultimately, I don't see what's so hard about these pedigree checks given CGC's resources. Just my two cents.... Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearmint Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 After all, someone from CGC called Jeff (nearmint) up thinking a book with no distinguished markings he had submitted was an Edgar Church copy .... And, in one of my more brilliant moves, I told him exactly why it couldn't be a Church book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hook Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Yep Alan...I've already learned that just because a Silver Age book has a red date stamp doesn't mean it's a GR. I've gotten a couple that I thought were and was disappointed and now, as my list of indicators grows, it gets a little easier. Plus I have such a large database of scans at this point, I can often compare the date stamps on books that came in and were stamped on the same day. Which is cool, by the way. Very cool. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hook Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 For instance, check the Jan 24 date stamp on the book above to this one, acquired from Metropolis raw. (Thank you Vinny!) The year portion of the stamp drops out on both books, and the number 2 is lower than the 4. The alignment is perfectly the same in both books. Detectin' is more fun than cantankerin', witchuntin' or photoshopin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComicBookGuy Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 It's interesting you guys are having this discussion about Bethlehems. I just received four Bethlehem comics in the mail today from Keith Contarino. All four have date stamps on the front, and all lack the telltale Bethlehem stamp on the back cover that most of my older Bethlehems have. One comic has a date stamp with no letter prefix. One has an "E" in front of the date stamp; one has a "C", and the fourth has a "D." Pretty odd. I have no idea what it means, but I have no doubt these are Bethlehems. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedigreeMan Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 It's interesting you guys are having this discussion about Bethlehems. I just received four Bethlehem comics in the mail today from Keith Contarino. All four have date stamps on the front, and all lack the telltale Bethlehem stamp on the back cover that most of my older Bethlehems have. One comic has a date stamp with no letter prefix. One has an "E" in front of the date stamp; one has a "C", and the fourth has a "D." Pretty odd. I have no idea what it means, but I have no doubt these are Bethlehems. Joe Let's see 'em, Joe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Picked up an unslabbed Northland book at the monthly Philly show today. If my fascination with pedigree books is ever questioned, this one would be illustrative. The colors on this book are amazing - I've included a scan of the bone-white back cover to show off the quality of the color preservation. While the top of the front cover has a small area of damage and the back a very small stain that take the book down to the VF/VF+ range (Motor City graded it a strict VF according to the COA), it is probably as nice a TOS50 of that grade that one could ever find. Only outside of a plastic capsule can this color preservation truly be appreciated: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hook Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Nice! I always wondered if Don Heck drew part of this cover and Kirby the rest......the head and face of the Mandarin look much more Heck-ish than Kirby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Surfer Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Nice book, I just picked up a VG copy signed by Stan Lee. Too bad about the overhang crease becuase it looks like it would be a solid 9.4 if not for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Nice! I always wondered if Don Heck drew part of this cover and Kirby the rest......the head and face of the Mandarin look much more Heck-ish than Kirby. The robe could be Heck, too, but that throne is pure Kirby - just ask Mica, our resident expert on this royal accoutrement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foolkiller Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I saw this book today in person when Bob picked it up... what a beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hook Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Nice! I always wondered if Don Heck drew part of this cover and Kirby the rest......the head and face of the Mandarin look much more Heck-ish than Kirby. The robe could be Heck, too, but that throne is pure Kirby - just ask Mica, our resident expert on this royal accoutrement! No doubt...that is a Kirby-Recliner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1968 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 As usual I am scanner free......But at San Diego I got The Northland Superboy Annual #1 The Crowley Hoppy the Marvel Bunny's #8, 10, 11, and 15. Those are my newest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
