PGM Sub-Mariner #22

[vaillant]

This is a copy which would have been very nice but appears to be trimmed at the top. I’m not sure of that, and I can’t see a reason for it (width is OK, so is the bottom side) but it’s considerably shorter than most of the silver age books I have, although I have some which are shorter than others (and are not trimmed, i am sure of that).

 

Which grade would you assign to it, and which advice would you give to see if it is truly trimmed or just cut this way from the press?

 

P.S. On the back cover it looks like there is some moisture, rather than actual staining, and my scanner makes it looks a lot badder than it actually is. For the rest, book is very sharp, would have easily been a 9.2 if not for the suspected trimming.

 

 

High res scan: http://i.imgur.com/dQF3bbH.jpg

 

 

High res scan: http://i.imgur.com/PZLqcgM.jpg

[MR SigS]

I can take a closer look later tonight, but right now I'd say 8.0-8.5 mostly due to the BC.

[vaillant]

Thanks. That kind of moisture is barely visible in hand, and there is nothing in the inside cover, it‘s weird, I guess it was mostly due to atmospherical agents.

 

I’d be more interested in understanding how to see if the book has been trimmed or not…

[Mmanick]

8.5-9.0

[MR SigS]

It does looked chopped

[Hado]

Right above the 1969, the BC top edge does something weird. You can see it above the price box on the FC scan too.

 

If its not trimmed its a very strange cut.

[MR SigS]

Yes. It's almost like the cut stopped then resumed, rather than one smooth motion.

Not saying that's what it is, but that's what comes to mind when I see that back edge.

 

[vaillant]

I just wished to have a reliable way to determine whether it‘s trimmed or not. I am inclined to consider it so, but I have found a few other silver age books in my collection which aren’t uniform in height, and some are a lot less tall than the others – and those aren’t surely trimmed.

 

@Hado: Yes, there is a paper "gap" like the one you say, but there would be some in any case, as it corresponds to a production crease in the inner pages. What makes me believe it is trimmed is that the paper of the cover in some way doesn’t look perfectly cut, like it’s been cut by hand.

 

What I ask myself is:

 

– Why someone should do this to such a nice comic?

– How would it grade, assuming it’s trimmed? Surely not a VF+ or better.

 

Anyway, the seller agreed for a full refund as he trusted me in full and he was in full good faith (I bought the two copies he had of this issue, and the other is considerably taller). Now at least I have a nicer copy, but still on the lookout for a better one, as I love this issue.

[Crimebuster]

My gut instinct when I saw this is that the book had overhang on the top edge and someone trimmed it off.

 

My guess is that for whatever reason, the interior was cut too short when it was produced. As a result, when a normal sized cover was attached during the production process, the top edge was too tall and overhung the interior. Because of this, even though the rest of the book was in great shape, that top overhang portion became creased and chipped. I have seen a lot of Marvels from this period with top edge overhang.

 

Whoever had the book probably figured they could just chop off the extra overhang to remove the unsightly and superfluous portion without affecting the integrity of the book since the interior was already short.

 

Just my

[Crimebuster]

As an example, here's my Avengers #10, which has overhang along the top edge.

 

It is slightly annoying, because you can't help but think, man, if they had just cut this properly when they made it, it wouldn't have this damage and would be a higher grade! I can see why someone would try to fix this sort of thing, especially back in the 80's when resto wasn't frowned upon nearly as much.

 

 

[MR SigS]

Isn't overhang a defect that develops over time? Something about the inner paper shrinks or the cover paper expands.

 

Or did I dream it?

[vaillant]

@Crimebuster: Many thanks, as I think it may be precisely this sort of thing.

I have to check the inner pages, as I seem to recall it is the cover that apparently has been cut by hand.

This, however, is equally strange, as I have had a few copies of Subby issues in that range, and none had overhang. Overhang seemed much more common with early silver age books.

 

But, as is, trimming acknowledged, how would you grade that? A 4.0? Would be a 8.5 or better without the trimming. Book insides are very nice.

Just so that if I decide to give it as a freebie I can state a grade…

[Hado]

The trimming wouldn't affect the grade, just the label color.

[vaillant]

Hi Hado, thanks.

I was thinking in terms of Overstreet grading as well. If we consider this not "Qualified" or "Restored" but just trimmed, how would you grade it?

I would not go so much high with a trimmed book…

[Hado]

I'd say 8.0/8.5 but I'm not sure about the stains on the BC

[vaillant]

I think I posed the question ambiguously.

I mean, without the caveat of saying "restored" (a trimmed book is not – obviously – restored, at least not to me) or "qualified", which grade would you have given to this book according to pre-CGC standards or Overstreet criteria.

 

I would not buy this as a VF, for sure. Well, I would not buy it in general but it’s another matter…

[Hado]

If you didn't buy it...how did it come into your possession

[vaillant]

I stole it from Marie Severin’s personal collection, of course!

 

I bought it recently, but the seller was so nice that he fully refunded me the amount I paid, so – since I don’t need it – I just wished to assign a grade in case I give it away as a freebie or for a few dollars…

[Hado]