So...Ever since CGC hit, who did better?

[ninanina]

Ran into my buddy Doug (from Comic World) and I am only mentioning him because I have to give him credit for the question. He was wondering, as I do now,

who did better since the advent of CGC? The INVESTORS paying multiples of guide when the 1st 9.4's surfaced (what was it 5 X's, 10 X's?), or the collectors quietly buying up Fines & Very Fines at a fraction of guide prices on e-bay?

[Mister_Comics]

Ever since CGC came about I've been able to sell just about any kind of comic. I'd have to say eBay is part responsible also. And I've sold just about all my WAR comics because they are very popular right now among buyers. I'd have to say I probably sold more unslabbed comics then I ever have since CGC. I don't know how or why my comics have sold more and for higher prices, but it must have something to do with CGC's existance. Yes I have sold many books for more then GUIDE. I've only sold a few slabbed books and have made a profit every time. Sometimes a big profit and sometimes a small profit. But at least I don't take a loss. Why I get more then guide for unslabbed comic I don't know. I'm guessing people either want the comic badly or they plan on reselling it for more. All I know is that since CGC has been around I've been selling more comics and making more money on them. Take CGC out of the picture. Take eBay out of the picture. And I'm back to trying to sell comics again and hardly selling any.

[ninanina]

Is it possibel your success has more to do with e-bay's existence than CGC.

 

My reasons for asking this question was because when CGC first came into existence, high graded CGC comics went for multiples of guide. Now, they appear to be coming down. While all this was happening, another type of collector who wasn't interested in CGC quietly went along and bought his VF's and Fines unslabbed at a fraction of guide. It seemed to me that in terms of investment, the collector did better than the investor because the multiples that early CGC's went for have come down. While this was happening, the lower grades continued and are continuing to sell for a fraction of guide value. Did the early buyers of CGC get burned? Also, if the percentages of guide continue dropping will the buyers of high grade CGC's today face the same future a few years from now?

 

Lots of people are reading this, but I am not getting too many comments. I know that there is a lot of people very pro-CGC here, what do you guys think?

Murph0?

 

AndrewKnight, your always after Very Fines. What do you think?

[COI]

"AndrewKnight, your always after Very Fines. What do you think? "

 

The combination of CGC and ebay has done no small amount of miracles in this hobby, IMO. CGC is the principle reason I got into vintage comics. For about 6 years I was only reading new books here or there, but I wasn't going near the vintage markets, even though I've always loved silver Marvel. I'm positive that many others were roped in the same way I was. In truth, being that I'm only 24, I can't comment on how collecting was 2 decades ago, but I know that I wouldn't be spending the money I do, and wouldn't have made the money I have, if it wasn't for the CGC/Ebay 1-2 combo.

 

Again, mainly referencing Silver, CGC's biggest impact has been on high grade books, particularly NM- or higher. I've been equally affected on both the VF/VF+ buying side(pre-65' Marvels only), and the HG 9.2-9.6 buying side. But the people that have done the best are those collectors and dealers who owned a large HG inventory/collection previous to CGC's inception, and capitalized through submissions.

 

"quietly went along and bought his VF's and Fines unslabbed at a fraction of guide."

 

Let me clarify my opinions on this. I will only buy and keep raw VF's or VF+ books,

if they are difficult aquisitions in HG. I don't care how cheap it is, I have no interest in picking up a VF Cap #101, because it's abundant in HG. I will, however JUMP at any strict VF copies of early FF's, TOS, TTA, ASM books, and pay up to guide without hesitation.The only time I have VF/VF+ books of post 66' issues in my personal inventory, is if I just picked up a collection they are in. I currently have a number of books from 1966-1970 in VF that will not be staying long.

 

As for FN/VF or lower, I would not hold these books for long, even on early Silvers. Mid grade is never going to catch on IMO because it's stuck in a sort of "limbo" between the $$$ copies, and the reader copies. If I want a reader, I buy a VG. If I want a nice copy, I'm willing to spend the money. But I could not justify spending mid-grade price, when for a fraction more I could get a solid VF, or I could get 8 VG's instead. But why FN+? I don't find them attractive enough to be HG, but they're also not SH%$TY enough to be throw away copies. These books will always suffer for those reasons, and will either go down, or stay stagnate.

[drbanner]

Like Andrew said, those who did the best were those that had high-grade books before CGC came around and had them graded, and sold them. I don't know about "fractions" of guide, but raw silver and bronze Fines and Very Fines were not selling at guide before CGC, or after CGC (with the exception of keys). So given the choice between those that have continued to buy Fine/Very Fines at below guide, or those that paid extreme multiples for 9.2+, from a financial standpoint, the F/VF buyers have probably made out better.

 

However, as I've mentioned many times before, the buyers of 9.2+ books are not always interested in the potential financial gain, they simply want the best! If they now have the best, well, then from their perspective they made out the best.

 

Finally, while the market has softened since last summer (and "crashed" on common, non-key bronze-modern books below 9.8), there are many books that continue to increase in value. Early silver in high grade, key later silver/bronze in high grade, etc.,. Hulk 181 is a good example...9.4's have had a slow, but steady, increase in ending prices, and even the 9.8 up on ebay currently is at $2k more than the 9.8 that was offered last year and ended up at ~$11k.

[aardvark88]

Early cgc collector/investors of Hulk 181, Iron Man 1, Cap 100, etc. got burned by the early hype. Prices went up too fast on 9.4+ b4 the cgc census was compiled & released. U forgot to mention the impact of ComicLink on the hi-end cgc mkt. The prices realized on 9.4 (no date stamp), 9.6, 9.8 silver/bronze cgc comics on the Link may be much HIGHER than on eBay.

[comicwiz]

Early cgc collector/investors of Hulk 181, Iron Man 1, Cap 100, etc. got burned by the early hype

 

I'm not sure I agree with your choice of Hulk 181 as my experience proves otherwise - the other books your mention have always been nothing books to me. But I'll tell you with an absolute certainty -- at one point, I had 16 copies of Hulk 181 -- all VF/NM or better. I had hoarded Hulk 181's from about 1982; at that time, I remembered buying a Hulk 181 for US $30 that year -- and a few people thought I was out of my mind. It turned out to be the NM+ copy that I've kept in my collection. I purchased about 9 copies between 1996-1999, and the rest about three months before the HUGE increase in bronze age keys like Hulk 181 (doubled in value), X-Men 94 and GS X-Men 1 (I believe that was the 2000 OPG). The most I paid was US $560 for a NM 9.4 copy. That same copy sold for US $2300 a few months after the price increase. Interestingly enough, I would be hard-pressed to find anyone who would sell their NM 9.4 copy for the current OPG value.

 

Words cannot do justice to describe how good that price increase was for me, and combined with the increase was how the CGC hype helped in the profiteering. I even remember walking into a local comic shop near around the time the X-Men movie was released, and found a Hulk 181 that graded at best a VF- 7.5. The only thing that was unusual about this copy is that it had a blue centerfold insert and a star stamped on the "Hulk" on the front cover. I didn't know much about the mark jewellers inserts at the time, so I started asking around. I paid $500 CAD (approx US $320) for the comic -- within a week of buying it, it sold on ebay unslabbed for US $850!! I thought it was going to be one of those bidders that bid high, and then would just disapper from the face of the planet, but instead, the buyer was so ecstatic that he found a mark jewellers variant that he paid about an hour after the auction ended! For a long time, the profit on NM- to NM+ slabbed, or unslabbed copies was so hideous, that after showing a few of those skeptics that thought I was crazy for paying US $30 for a comic back in the 80's the auction results, they were franticly running to local comic shops, friends, neighbours and family in search of a copy of Hulk 181. It's also worth noting that I picked up a few NM- copies well after 6-9 months after the OPG value increase for about US $650 and those same books will still fetch about US $1300.