How much do white pages add to value?

[Jeffro.]

And furthermore, how can you judge the merits of a page quality designation without having seen the comic unslabbed and looked at the pages?

 

Now, now, don't go bringing common sense into the equation.

 

Cover paper and interior paper can age at different rates. A book with cover tanning can still have nice pages.

[Jeffro.]

I think a numerical score for PQ would not only be more helpful for collectors, it would be a cash cow for CGC. A straight eleven-point scale, with 0 being completely brittle and 10 being newsstand fresh.

 

I could see a label redesign with the Structural grade and PQ grade sharing a space - the latter being in a larger font - in the same general area as now.

 

It would instantly make everyone that cares about "having the best" reevaluate, as a 9.8s | 7pq book would be "inferior" to a 9.8s | 10pq one.

 

 

 

What a cluster that would start

 

Combine that with a shiny CVA sticker for maximum kizzash!

[Boba]

Cream-pages on SA books were fine with me, then I got me a White-Pager and all of a sudden it's all I think about

[sacentaur]

Combine that with a shiny CVA sticker for maximum kizzash!

 

 

I can see it now, CPQ (Certified Page Quality) as a new start-up company. They can look at the page edges through the slab and place a sticker on books that they think match (or exceeds, how exciting!) the label page quality notation.

 

[Peter Loves Gwen]

And furthermore, how can you judge the merits of a page quality designation without having seen the comic unslabbed and looked at the pages?

 

Now, now, don't go bringing common sense into the equation.

 

Cover paper and interior paper can age at different rates. A book with cover tanning can still have nice pages.

 

So, would you rather have a white page book with a tanned cover(not notated by CGC), or a white page book with white cover paper(not notated by CGC)?

 

Both of those books could look the same given today's standards, but the tanned book would have an inexplicably lower grade.

 

In most common pictures it's nearly impossible to tell a books grade to an exact step, several grade steps can match most pictures.

 

This is really about the limited data you get from most pictures, plus the supposedly trustworthy CGC label. I would rather have higher quality pictures, than to rely on the label.

[mintcollector]

I am sure this has been a thread at some point, but I thought I would ask the question.

 

When thinking of a silver age book (particularly in a given key), how much value do you give to White Pages?

 

Any difference in your opinion between DC and Marvel?

 

 

 

I have no problem buying books with off-white or better pages (even with my OCD-). That being said, I will not touch a book with cream to off-white pages or worse. I do place a premium on 'white pages' but not one I am really willing to pay for as I find there are way too many other factors to consider (i.e. overall presentation and appearance of the book and what kind of defects it has).

 

 

[BarryAllen]

I am sure this has been a thread at some point, but I thought I would ask the question.

 

When thinking of a silver age book (particularly in a given key), how much value do you give to White Pages?

 

Any difference in your opinion between DC and Marvel?

 

 

 

I have no problem buying books with off-white or better pages (even with my OCD-). That being said, I will not touch a book with cream to off-white pages or worse. I do place a premium on 'white pages' but not one I am really willing to pay for as I find there are way too many other factors to consider (i.e. overall presentation and appearance of the book and what kind of defects it has).

 

So you would walk buy a rare key at a solid price because it has Cream to Off-white pages?

 

Is that your personal collecting preference, or your approach to dealing in comics in general?

 

Ultimately, I would agree that paying attention to PQ as a component of evaluating the value of a book overall is important. But I am not sold that it should be an eliminating factor all together unless PQ is very poor (i.e. in my mind cream to off-white is not ideal, but not a deal breaker). Am I way off-base here?

 

All things considered, PQ is just another opportunity to negotiate.

 

[mintcollector]

I am sure this has been a thread at some point, but I thought I would ask the question.

 

When thinking of a silver age book (particularly in a given key), how much value do you give to White Pages?

 

Any difference in your opinion between DC and Marvel?

 

 

 

I have no problem buying books with off-white or better pages (even with my OCD-). That being said, I will not touch a book with cream to off-white pages or worse. I do place a premium on 'white pages' but not one I am really willing to pay for as I find there are way too many other factors to consider (i.e. overall presentation and appearance of the book and what kind of defects it has).

 

So you would walk buy a rare key at a solid price because it has Cream to Off-white pages?

 

Is that your personal collecting preference, or your approach to dealing in comics in general?

 

Ultimately, I would agree that paying attention to PQ as a component of evaluating the value of a book overall is important. But I am not sold that it should be an eliminating factor all together unless PQ is very poor (i.e. in my mind cream to off-white is not ideal, but not a deal breaker). Am I way off-base here?

 

All things considered, PQ is just another opportunity to negotiate.

 

No. This is a personal collecting preference. That is all. I do not own any books under CGC 9.2 either. This is not to say that there are not some nice or extremely rare books that are hard to find well below that grade. This is just a matter of my collecting choice. I go after quality. As a result of that when I set up my collecting goals for everything I collect (not just comic books); I set up certain standards. When I collect coins I collect ONLY MS 63 graded coins or higher. Paper money is 63 or higher with original paper quality. These are basic standards that I assign to my own collection. Antiques have their own standards that I judge them by. Now when I am buying to resell I have to go by what I believe my customers will want.

[sacentaur]

So you would walk buy a rare key at a solid price because it has Cream to Off-white pages?

 

I would pass.

 

I have 'gambled' and purchased only a few (non-key) cr-to-ow books, but never at random. I've always examined the book as best I can, checked for edge/spine tanning, how fresh does the book present overall, etc.

 

It has generally worked out, but is a rare exception rather than a rule.

 

Is that your personal collecting preference, or your approach to dealing in comics in general?

 

It's my personal preference - I crack and handle most of my books, so PQ has always been a top priority for me.

[BarryAllen]

I've always examined the book as best I can, checked for edge/spine tanning, how fresh does the book present overall, etc.

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am little surprise that you really crack and handle every book. If the PQ is not up to standard, how do you return a cracked book?

[sacentaur]

If the PQ is not up to standard, how do you return a cracked book?

 

I don't - it's just the nature of the beast.

 

I've cracked maybe 150 books, and would say that with due diligence, I've been generally happy roughly 85% of the time.

 

[zosocane]

I was speaking to a dealer at a con not too long ago and he stated that PQ is the next step in the evolution of comic collecting where the market will fine-tune pricing as buyers seek to distinguish quality product from ordinary product within the same grade. I don't think that will be the case, but an interesting view nonetheless. If GPA were to consistently, in every case, report PQ next to each sale (it only does so sometimes), and a track record of PQ-reported sales builds up over 3+ years so that such sales are easily discernable on a GPA search, this dealer's theory might hold up.

 

[mintcollector]

I was speaking to a dealer at a con not too long ago and he stated that PQ is the next step in the evolution of comic collecting where the market will fine-tune pricing as buyers seek to distinguish quality product from ordinary product within the same grade. I don't think that will be the case, but an interesting view nonetheless. If GPA were to consistently, in every case, report PQ next to each sale (it only does so sometimes), and a track record of PQ-reported sales builds up over 3+ years so that such sales are easily discernable on a GPA search, this dealer's theory might hold up.

 

 

Problem is CGC is not too consistent in this area. I once pressed a book that was previously slabbed. It went from 9.2 off-white to 9.4 white. How do they explain that one?

 

 

[BarryAllen]

I was speaking to a dealer at a con not too long ago and he stated that PQ is the next step in the evolution of comic collecting where the market will fine-tune pricing as buyers seek to distinguish quality product from ordinary product within the same grade. I don't think that will be the case, but an interesting view nonetheless. If GPA were to consistently, in every case, report PQ next to each sale (it only does so sometimes), and a track record of PQ-reported sales builds up over 3+ years so that such sales are easily discernable on a GPA search, this dealer's theory might hold up.

 

 

Problem is CGC is not too consistent in this area. I once pressed a book that was previously slabbed. It went from 9.2 off-white to 9.4 white. How do they explain that one?

 

 

From what I understand, they can be inconsistent on anything...

 

It is a difficult argument to both simultaneously trust the grade in one case and despise it in another. Not saying that you are doing that, but across the boards people's main gripe seems to be that CGC got it wrong versus their opinion.

 

At the end of the day I am not sure it is possible to be 100% accurate on reviewing anything subjectively or objectively when the human element is involved.

 

That being said, do people in general feel that the CGC gets it right often enough to count?

[Jeffro.]

And furthermore, how can you judge the merits of a page quality designation without having seen the comic unslabbed and looked at the pages?

 

Now, now, don't go bringing common sense into the equation.

 

Cover paper and interior paper can age at different rates. A book with cover tanning can still have nice pages.

 

So, would you rather have a white page book with a tanned cover(not notated by CGC), or a white page book with white cover paper(not notated by CGC)?

 

Both of those books could look the same given today's standards, but the tanned book would have an inexplicably lower grade.

 

In most common pictures it's nearly impossible to tell a books grade to an exact step, several grade steps can match most pictures.

 

This is really about the limited data you get from most pictures, plus the supposedly trustworthy CGC label. I would rather have higher quality pictures, than to rely on the label.

 

I do agree that more info is needed. If the reason a book got a lower grade is because of cover tanning then I say put that on the label. Part of the issue is blind or near-blind faith in what the label says. We know that PQ can vary wildly. We've seen that on re-subs. Makes the emphasis on what CGC calls white paged books a bit of a shoot.

[Jeffro.]

I am sure this has been a thread at some point, but I thought I would ask the question.

 

When thinking of a silver age book (particularly in a given key), how much value do you give to White Pages?

 

Any difference in your opinion between DC and Marvel?

 

 

 

I have no problem buying books with off-white or better pages (even with my OCD-). That being said, I will not touch a book with cream to off-white pages or worse. I do place a premium on 'white pages' but not one I am really willing to pay for as I find there are way too many other factors to consider (i.e. overall presentation and appearance of the book and what kind of defects it has).

 

So you would walk buy a rare key at a solid price because it has Cream to Off-white pages?

 

Is that your personal collecting preference, or your approach to dealing in comics in general?

 

Ultimately, I would agree that paying attention to PQ as a component of evaluating the value of a book overall is important. But I am not sold that it should be an eliminating factor all together unless PQ is very poor (i.e. in my mind cream to off-white is not ideal, but not a deal breaker). Am I way off-base here?

 

All things considered, PQ is just another opportunity to negotiate.

 

No. This is a personal collecting preference. That is all. I do not own any books under CGC 9.2 either. This is not to say that there are not some nice or extremely rare books that are hard to find well below that grade. This is just a matter of my collecting choice. I go after quality. As a result of that when I set up my collecting goals for everything I collect (not just comic books); I set up certain standards. When I collect coins I collect ONLY MS 63 graded coins or higher. Paper money is 63 or higher with original paper quality. These are basic standards that I assign to my own collection. Antiques have their own standards that I judge them by. Now when I am buying to resell I have to go by what I believe my customers will want.

 

It's interesting that quality to you only means the grade and the PQ. There are key comics out there that even below 9.2 and with PQ less than white that are quality comics to collect. AF 15 just to name one.

[mintcollector]

I was speaking to a dealer at a con not too long ago and he stated that PQ is the next step in the evolution of comic collecting where the market will fine-tune pricing as buyers seek to distinguish quality product from ordinary product within the same grade. I don't think that will be the case, but an interesting view nonetheless. If GPA were to consistently, in every case, report PQ next to each sale (it only does so sometimes), and a track record of PQ-reported sales builds up over 3+ years so that such sales are easily discernable on a GPA search, this dealer's theory might hold up.

 

 

Problem is CGC is not too consistent in this area. I once pressed a book that was previously slabbed. It went from 9.2 off-white to 9.4 white. How do they explain that one?

 

 

From what I understand, they can be inconsistent on anything...

 

It is a difficult argument to both simultaneously trust the grade in one case and despise it in another. Not saying that you are doing that, but across the boards people's main gripe seems to be that CGC got it wrong versus their opinion.

 

At the end of the day I am not sure it is possible to be 100% accurate on reviewing anything subjectively or objectively when the human element is involved.

 

That being said, do people in general feel that the CGC gets it right often enough to count?

 

I have no issue with their grading. My issue is the whole page quality designation. This is where it gets dicey for me. I understand that grading can be subjective. I also understand that if you look at a book under the wrong light it can be given a wrong designation of either off-white or cream pages...however, how do you go from off-white all the way back to white? A book cannot heal itself...or can it?

 

[mintcollector]

I am sure this has been a thread at some point, but I thought I would ask the question.

 

When thinking of a silver age book (particularly in a given key), how much value do you give to White Pages?

 

Any difference in your opinion between DC and Marvel?

 

 

 

I have no problem buying books with off-white or better pages (even with my OCD-). That being said, I will not touch a book with cream to off-white pages or worse. I do place a premium on 'white pages' but not one I am really willing to pay for as I find there are way too many other factors to consider (i.e. overall presentation and appearance of the book and what kind of defects it has).

 

So you would walk buy a rare key at a solid price because it has Cream to Off-white pages?

 

Is that your personal collecting preference, or your approach to dealing in comics in general?

 

Ultimately, I would agree that paying attention to PQ as a component of evaluating the value of a book overall is important. But I am not sold that it should be an eliminating factor all together unless PQ is very poor (i.e. in my mind cream to off-white is not ideal, but not a deal breaker). Am I way off-base here?

 

All things considered, PQ is just another opportunity to negotiate.

 

No. This is a personal collecting preference. That is all. I do not own any books under CGC 9.2 either. This is not to say that there are not some nice or extremely rare books that are hard to find well below that grade. This is just a matter of my collecting choice. I go after quality. As a result of that when I set up my collecting goals for everything I collect (not just comic books); I set up certain standards. When I collect coins I collect ONLY MS 63 graded coins or higher. Paper money is 63 or higher with original paper quality. These are basic standards that I assign to my own collection. Antiques have their own standards that I judge them by. Now when I am buying to resell I have to go by what I believe my customers will want.

 

It's interesting that quality to you only means the grade and the PQ. There are key comics out there that even below 9.2 and with PQ less than white that are quality comics to collect. AF 15 just to name one.

 

'This is not to say that there are not some nice or extremely rare books that are hard to find well below that grade.'

 

You were saying...?

[Jeffro.]

 

'This is not to say that there are not some nice or extremely rare books that are hard to find or well below that grade.'

 

You were saying...?

 

So if you had the opportunity to buy an AF 15 8.0 with C/OW pages at a fair price or even a bargain you would pass it up?

[Junkdrawer]

 

'This is not to say that there are not some nice or extremely rare books that are hard to find or well below that grade.'

 

You were saying...?

 

So if you had the opportunity to buy an AF 15 8.0 with C/OW pages at a fair price or even a bargain you would pass it up?

Simply resub that and it will likely come back 7.5 oww