Funny thing about Heritage

[clobberintime]

Was just looking over the upcoming list of books for the Signature auction and what popped up but the 2 books I am looking hardest for - Hulk 1 and FF 1 and both in the grades I wanted 8.5 and 8.0. Amazing - and then I remembered that that also happened in the last big sale back in Oct. So I looked back to that auction to see what those copies sold for. And guess what - these are the same 2 books that "sold" in October! The FF 1 supposedly went for $11,800 and the Hulk for $13,000. I am wondering if the books really sold - I was high bid on both at close of internet bids - and the winner did not pay? Did the buyer decide to resell them quickly? Or did someone from Heritage outbid me so that the house could resell them? I am betting on the last one. I have called Jaster about this to see what the deal is. Anyone else notice books like that with them - that allegedly sell and then re-appear a short time later?

[aardvark88]

Bill Hughes tells me a Neal Adams Detect cover orig. art is on "hold" for another collector from JP the Mint catalog for $12,600 when I call in. 2 months later, the SAME cover appears on Heritage & sells for around $6,900 (can't remember exactly). Wtf?

[clobberintime]

Yeah that is a bit odd. I am just starting to get reluctant to bid on anything with a mystery - like private auctions no matter who the seller is. I saw an interesting show the other night on Court Tv about Christies and Sothebys art auctions in the early 90s and price fixing. If they were doing that kind of stuff , god knows what other "reputable" auctions are probably doing. I wanted to disbelieve a lot of what Meth, Blazing , CI and others had to say about this but now I am starting to have some big doubts. When i talk to Jaster I will get back to the boards about it.

[hammer-migration]

Rob,

What you are noting is NOTHING compared to what went on for YEARS in Auction Houses. They are there to MAKE MONEY. THAT is the agenda. The Priority. Heritage is jay-walking compared to some of the outright criminal activity that takes place behind some closed doors of "respected" established Auction Houses. I've collected 60's muscle cars, Lionel Trains, and have many friends and associates that have done so with 17th and 18th century Japanese art, Sportscards, etc., etc. Some auction houses, have rules that favor "in-house" trading. The more rules (or should I say, lack of them) that favor inside manipulations, the more chances there for "adjustments". Problem is that when an Auction House is run by mostly collectors, or people that they themselves deal comics, there's secondary agendas. The fact that Heritage is basically the property of one incredibly wealthy, highly successful individual doesn't help as one thinks it should. His employess have to make HIM money, so HE can pay their salaries, and at the same time are looking to make themselves as much as possible. The same way that viewing an auction on Ebay by a 0 feedback seller, with a stolen scan of an AF15, with no return rights, and payment only by money order or wire, in a 3-day auction, should raise red flags, when I see auction rules that DO NOT have a definite closing time (bids can STILL be taken after the gavel falls unless a certain amount of time elapses after the last bid), and a rule that employees can bid freely...automatically, I see red flags. I CAN'T play by those rules. I like definite closure, and KNOWING if I won or not at THAT time. Also, I like knowing that the "insiders" CAN'T trade on the items up for bid. Isn't that like being denied access to a comic show where the dealers set up on Friday night, trade amongst themselves, and they don't let the "outsiders" in to the show until Sunday???

The RULES are what makes or breaks the Auction House. The more rules that FAVOR "inside trading", the less chance there is of the outsiders playing on anything but an extremely slanted field. Some tilt is acceptible and will always exist in all auction-houses, but some obstacles are insurmountable.

[fantastic_four]

The CGC 8.0 FF #1 in the current Heritage auction isn't the same one that they sold in October 2002; that one had off-white pages and a date stamp on the front cover. The current one doesn't have either of those traits.

 

Here's a scan of the one sold in October 2002:

 

[clobberintime]

Well I have not heard back yet so we will see. It is frustrating though if that's what happened to those books aS I was winning both at the end of the on line part of the auction. They are like the last 2 books I need to wind up my marvel collection - i sold the 7.0 Hulk 1 i had but I have never owned and FF1. And if you look at the 8.0 they have up it looks pretty sharp - cover appears to be nice and white - only real flaw is a small date stamp.Do you watch the Barret/Jackson show? They had a lot of good muscle cars the other week that went for big money. If I ever got one it would be a late 60s convertible person_without_enough_empathyin Camaro or a GTO. The vettes brought big $$$$.

[clobberintime]

I will have to check again but i thought they were the exact same pictures - same with the Hulk 1. That date stamp on the FF 1 is hard to miss. Maybe it is just coincidence like i said i have not been able to talk with anyone yet.

[hammer-migration]

I sure do!! I have the B/Jax show on with VHSs handy to record whatever I don't get to see!!! Did you see the last F40 that didn't make the reserve last week? Very surprising turn of events the past few years in the Ferrari market!!! Always great to see Reggie Jax in the spotlight! Reggie has some incredible cars. Where are they getting all these GT-40s from??? For a car of such limited quantity, and at one time considered the fastest de-tuned racing car you could buy for street use (240mph top end!!), they're appearing frequently on the block. Is everyone unloading them that owns one?? The Auction results seem very minimal at best also ($150K to $250K range).

[hammer-migration]

I have to say it only because you can't help but notice (unless you're blind), but....DAMN, that is one incredibly NARROW #1. And yes, I am noting that the black spine line IS visible on the front cover left edge so YES, there WILL be some degree of shift resulting in some missing art from the right edge, but even taking THAT into account.....DAMN, that is one NARROW #1!!!!!

[CosmicBob]

With the large Heritage scans you can see the Cert Number and check to see if they are the same or not.

[greaterfool]

on the march heritage FF1, the date stamp is now on the back!

[clobberintime]

Ah ha - they moved it somehow to really throw me off the track i thought I was on!

[clobberintime]

I saw most of the Friday show - but after that my wife did not want to see much more! The part I saw had a lot of American cars and I saw Reggie - I think he said he had about 200 cars at one point! There were some ugly cars too - that one ferrari had ben redone by someone and there was an awful purpel car -can't remember the make. There was one bright orange Cuda(hemi) that was pretty ugly too. The vettes and Tbirds were all pretty sharp though.