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9.4 JLA #7 on Heritage

Started by tth2,

51 posts in this topic

tth2

tth2

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Except that you can't do that, because not all paper starts out the same color. Even newsprint from different printers can be a shade or two darker than the newsprint used elsewhere, depending on the particular mix of wood and chemicals along the way.

 

Interesting, I did not know that PQ had to be measured on a relative standard. Has CGC confirmed that they do this, and if so, how could they possibly know what "white" brand new pages from a particular publisher from 1939 look like, in order to establish the benchmark for that publisher? It just doesn't seem do-able to me.

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tth2

tth2

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but some conversations I've had with collectors who seem oblivious to anything but the label have been outright disturbing, and have left me wondering about the true motivations behind their buying.

 

I'd be curious whether these "collectors" are long-time collectors (i.e., well before advent of CGC) or people who've come on the scene post-CGC. I'd have a hard time believing that any serious long-time collector would completely abandon their sense of aesthetics and hard-earned grading skills just because of what a label says.

 

BTW, I don't know exactly what your collecting goals are, but I would wager that at least a few books you want may not exist in 9.4+. In those cases, will you settle for lower copies, or are you going to wait for the possibility that they may surface one day?

 

I totally agree with you that many early SA DCs may not exist in 9.4 or better, which has been the topic of many debates on these boards. Sure, once I've filled my runs with the 9.4 or better books that I know are out there, I'll start filling in the gaps with the best lower grade copies I can find. But I think that day is a long, long way away.

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burntboy

burntboy

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Except that you can't do that, because not all paper starts out the same color. Even newsprint from different printers can be a shade or two darker than the newsprint used elsewhere, depending on the particular mix of wood and chemicals along the way.

 

Interesting, I did not know that PQ had to be measured on a relative standard. Has CGC confirmed that they do this, and if so, how could they possibly know what "white" brand new pages from a particular publisher from 1939 look like, in order to establish the benchmark for that publisher? It just doesn't seem do-able to me.

 

me niether...........i always thought that something like the OWL card was the barometer for determining page quality/color.

 

i guess what i'm saying is that i always thought that page QUALITY meant page COLOR and not the relative degree of deterioration from initial printing.

 

FFB knows his s*#t, so if he says so, i suspect it's not quite as simple as i'd understood. grin.gif

 

and, i'd also like to understand how different quality/color pages within the same book get valued. (i would opine that they go with the average but what do i know). confused.gif

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Aman619

Aman619

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Im willing to bet CGC is only interested in the relative page quality TODAY regardless of what state the paper was in when printed. And paper quality is only expressed in terms of its current color, not acidity. Its the only way they can do it, right? They dont have any idea nor is there any research as to the paper quality at origin.

 

And I'd guess that they judge the overall page color of the inside and edges of the pages. It may be a bit ham-fisted approach, but after all, they are squeezing every possible color range into 4 categories total! Just like with the comics grades themselves, they gotta pick one or another.

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tth2

tth2

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How much are you willing to bet? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Im willing to bet CGC is only interested in the relative page quality TODAY regardless of what state the paper was in when printed.

 

Scott, is this based on what Steve B has told you at the forum dinners, or something?

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FFB

FFB

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How much are you willing to bet? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Im willing to bet CGC is only interested in the relative page quality TODAY regardless of what state the paper was in when printed.

 

Scott, is this based on what Steve B has told you at the forum dinners, or something?

 

Yes. I promise I didn't make it up.

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tth2

tth2

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Scott, is this based on what Steve B has told you at the forum dinners, or something?

 

Yes. I promise I didn't make it up.

 

So, please elaborate! Or did your earlier post pretty much summarize what Steve has said?

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FFB

FFB

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Scott, is this based on what Steve B has told you at the forum dinners, or something?

 

Yes. I promise I didn't make it up.

 

So, please elaborate! Or did your earlier post pretty much summarize what Steve has said?

 

Yep.

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blazingbob

blazingbob

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As far as the owl card goes I can honestly say that if you matched the card you might get lucky if it matched depending on where you put it. Put the card against the middle you could get white, put it towards the edge and you could get cream.

 

Thus Cream to offwhite was born, offwhite to white, white. Shall we now expand it to cotton white, bone white or satin white?

 

My favorite paper term was toast best served with butter and jam.

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burntboy

burntboy

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As far as the owl card goes I can honestly say that if you matched the card you might get lucky if it matched depending on where you put it. Put the card against the middle you could get white, put it towards the edge and you could get cream.

 

Thus Cream to offwhite was born, offwhite to white, white. Shall we now expand it to cotton white, bone white or satin white?

 

My favorite paper term was toast best served with butter and jam.

 

sign-funnypost.gif

 

so bob, what is your opinion on the topic of either A) current color presentation vs. B) relative to original color?? (i think that's where we seem to stand on this issue.....) confused.gif

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FFB

FFB

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Page quality should reflect what the page quality is the day it gets graded. I seem to remember that's what a Grading company was supposed to do - Evaluate the book for what it is, not what it was or could be?

 

So then only Baxter paper books can truly be white page books, and anything printed on newsprint should be off-white to white at best?

893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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Aman619

Aman619

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so CGC has research that certain books started out at a particular level of acidity?

 

And I said this where? foreheadslap.gif

 

I dont know what you said...thats why I was asking.

where did you say whatever it was you said that was quoted as "what you said before from Stevie B"???

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blazingbob

blazingbob

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So then only Baxter paper books can truly be white page books, and anything printed on newsprint should be off-white to white at best?

 

Steve Borock stated the above at a forum dinner? Baxter paper books are the cross reference I should be using when judging page quality? Has this been added to the Overstreet Grading guide?

 

Are we know getting into the What shade of white is white? Have we crossed over to the "Home Depot" paint color department.

 

I've seen white page curator books, I've seen white paged Spokanes etc.

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