chuck rozanski and his articles on the mile high collection

[dam60]

I think that the only ones who know what really went down would be Church's family and Chuck. Personally, I point to the following as evidence (in my own mind) that Chuck took the family for a ride.

 

1 - Anyone subscribe to CBG? Take a look at Chuck's full page ads for buying comcis. He is paying literally pennies on the dollar for books. I think (please correct me if I am wrong as I am at the office and don't have my copy in front of me) that he is offering $250 for a Hulk 181 in true NM condition. Furthermore, take a look at the complete FU prices he charges on his website / ads. His ads also run with the caveat that goes "we may not have the best prices, but we have the best selection" (to paraphrase).

 

2 - While I agree that there are somethings that are not worth the time and energy to unload, I find it very hard to believe that any family, unless of course you are the Gates, would sell something that even at the time had to be worth $500K for $2K. (to my best recollection, the $2K number comes from Matt Nelson's article on the pedigree - completely fascinating reading if you have the chance).

 

I respect Chuck's need to make a living as a comic dealer and he obviously can't pay full market price, but I can also think of tons of opportunities when I had a "win-win" deal with some of my comics.

 

Because I feel that Chuck raped the Church's on that deal and wants to continually rape people selling their comics (I use the CBG ads as a reference) I don't trust Chuck or mile high comics and boycott their auctions and website.

 

This is a bit off topic, but let me share a story with you:

This past summer I bought a collection of Batman comics off of ebay that advertized issues: 42, 156, 200, 267, 297, 300-400 (1/2), 400-500(missing 4), and 500-575 (missing a handful). I got from 300-600 (he included the 25 additional comics 575-600) but nothing before 300. I sent him an email and told him that I got some extra comics at the end but was missing the earlier issues and asked him if he mistakenly didn't ship these books. After a long delay he said that his wife forgot to pack them and that he would send them right away. We agreed upon an additional $20 for the extra books above $575. I thought that I was in the middle of being scammed and didn't pay. One week later, I got a package in the mail from him with the books. I immediately paid him the $20 for the books and an additional $6.20 to cover his actual shipping cost. And all of a sudden it hit me - how could anyone who actually read and collected almost 300 consecutive Batman issues really try to rip me off? Wouldn't he realize that Batman would come and get him?

 

One of the things that I like about some comics is that they aggressively promote "truth, justice, and the American Way". Just look at Captain America or Superman. Comics do a good job of instilling moral characteristics to impressionable youths and reinforcing values to those old enough to have developed a sense of right and wrong.

 

For someone who is suppossed to be an ambassador to the hobby, Chuck is a complete disgrace.

 

DAM

 

[comicwiz]

Hey CI

 

I'm afraid to give out my address to local dealers or even close personal friends who know I collect not so much because of the value of my collection (I've invested heavily on a state-of-the-art alarm), but because of the "all to real" possibility of this one recurring nightmare coming true, where I see my wife hand-bombing all my long boxes of comics into the back of a truck while I'm away on an extended business trip.

 

And this after only a little over a year of marriage

 

But in all seriousness, I can completely understand your point of view; I think it would be rather naive of us to think the comics acquired from the church's collection were purchased with full disclosure of value to the heirs of the collection. Whatever the situation, I still applaud anyone who is able to deal with people with the highest regard for their valuables, and without low-balling attempts which are nothing more than greedy attempts at profiteering.

 

Karma and comics ought to be inextricably linked; the reason why I got into comics was mainly because of a harsh upbringing, and often times, reading comics made me escape some of the cruelties surrounding my life. They also allowed me to broaden my scope and understanding, and about the power of creativy and imagination, and they helped me look at the world in a more hopeful manner. I carry with this positive experience a contagious energy whereby I know in just talking to someone about my passion for collecting comics, something good comes from it. Just as comics gave off "good" karmic energy in my experiences, like you I believe that there is no place for greed and thievery in this hobby -- bad luck follows those who thrive on "bad" karmic dealings.

[OldGuy]

Where is the $2,000 figure coming from?

[Arty]

Where is the $2,000 figure coming from?

It's from Matt Nelsons article on pedigree collections.

 

quote: "Trying to hide his excitement Chuck accepted the man's asking price, $2,000 for roughly 22,000 comics (9 cents a comic) and left, determined to raise the funds immediately"

[doc_sampson-migration]

the $2000 figure comes form matt nelsons article on pedigrees.

approx 20000 comics at 10 cents cover price each.

 

it seems like chuck made the family an offer based on the 1st lot of books he saw (not the ones in the closet he didnt see). if u believe him, he states he showed the heirs an overstreet guide with the prices of the books he was making an offer on.

if the family accepted the offer which included what was in the closet (but unseen by chuck) is that chucks fault or responsibility?

 

so chuck got lucky. he hit the mother lode. he didnt know that the best stuff was in the closet and he made his offer based on that. family accepted, no gun held to their head.

 

chuck may seem greedy but if u believe his story, he has and does seem to be genuinely concerned about the comic hobby and look at the stuff he has done to try and promote it. wasnt chuck the guy who auctined the thor 156 cgc 10 for the comic book legal defense fund?

 

what other dealers today do you see doing the stuff that chuck tried to do for the hobby?

[supapimp]

does anybody have a copy of the orginal MHC or link to see the prices nack in the late 70's?

 

thanks in advance,

 

pimpy

[hammer-migration]

CW, Your biggest lapse in judgement was letting your WIFE know where you live!!! These details should ALWAYS be kept top secret. It's not hard to do either. Everytime you two go out, just drive around in circles for 10 minutes or so before pulling into your driveway. It works for ME!!!!

[OldGuy]

Thanks for the link! More info is great. I've read Chucks account on his website and in CBG. I believe that in cases like this there are three sides to every story, his, hers, and the truth. Keeping that in mind I try to take it all with a grain of salt.

 

No what opinion someone has about the circumstances surrounding the Church collection no one can deny the significance of the collection and it's influence on our hobby. I find it all very fascinating.

[drbanner]

I believe that in cases like this there are three sides to every story, his, hers, and the truth.

 

Ain't that the truth. And Matt's version of the story does not match at all with Chuck's with regards to how the collection was financed, and what books the "financeer" was given, and at what % of guide, etc,.

[drbanner]

does anybody have a copy of the orginal MHC or link to see the prices nack in the late 70's?

 

Chuck has a copy of his original catalogue for perusal on his website...view with care!! Will lead to the jones for a time machine!

[comicwiz]

; she just complain about unnecessary gas consumption...

[mlovest]

Arty,

 

Thanks for the pedigree article!

 

Mike

[Crowzilla]

Ain't that the truth. And Matt's version of the story does not match at all with Chuck's with regards to how the collection was financed, and what books the "financeer" was given, and at what % of guide, etc,.

 

Bruce Hamilton has stated that the first time he saw the books was when he flew over to Denver with Burrell AFTER Chuck had come down to the Houston con and Burrell had first seen/heard about the books. So it certainly seems that while Burrell may have bought some books to help Chuck pay for the remainder of the collection, he certainly DIDN'T front him the money to buy it all.

 

And I sincerely doubt that the realtor/family of Church's really allowed Chuck the time to sift through 22,000 comics (you know how long that would take?), it is very easy to believe that Chuck made the offer based on the cheaper stuff he saw first, then when he started loading up realized how great a deal it was going to be.

And if 9-10¢ a book sounds like a cheap offer, pack up a few thousand 80s comics and haul them to your local dealer to see what they offer you.

If after starting to see what was really in there, Chuck justified it by offering to buy Church's art, clippings, or just say nothing - it really doesn't matter - that's between him and them. What would you do if you were 21 and that happened?

The deal has alredy been struck, they agreed to your price and want the books out quickly.

 

About a year ago I went to a yard sale and the family had a bunch of bronze books out for sale at $2.00 each ($3.00 for Giant Sizes), some neighborhood kids were there with their Wizard and had already grabbed the Hulk #181 and Spidey #129, but they were going slowly - looking each book up to see what it was worth.

I quickly went through the stacks and pulled the GL #76, Conan #1, Spotlight #5, House of Secrets #92 and some other goodies - all in the VF range. I didn't feel the need to show the seller the kids' Wizard guide (he was watching the kids go through it) and offer him more money - he had them priced and I paid.

No Guilt. I see a similar situation for Chuck - he made an offer based on what he could afford and what he saw, they accepted and it turned out to be the most incredible deal ever.

 

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

You Gypsy!

You Tramp!

You Thief!

 

according to the CI logic, you should now

 

1) feel like a scumbag lowlife weasel

2) offer the person (who had his items clearly marked and priced) more money

3) track those kids down and make THEM give the guy money

4) and never do this again.

[Crowzilla]

A few other points:

1) even if he could quickly go through some of the stacks, he couldn't possibly know there was Action #1-up, Detective #1-up, Marvel #1-up, etc. Just that there was a bunch of good stuff.

2) Golden Age keys believe it or not were NOT on fire at that time (Burrell took Detective #28-40 and passed on the #27, neither the Carter's nor Hamilton expresed interest in the niecest known copy of Action #1), the CBG and RBCC were full of articles and letters complaining that Overstreet was raising the prices on those key books when no one was even paying guide prices (EC's and Esoteric books were all the rage at that point for older stuff), and the collection didn't contain any Silver Age keys which were very hot.

3) The whole collection was certainly worth over 100K at the time (probably just under 200K by guide), but certainly not the 1/2 million or more number that is being thrown around in this thread. (not saying that still isn't the steal of a lifetime - but just reminding you to keep your numbers in perspective).

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

I quickly went through the stacks and pulled the GL #76, Conan #1, Spotlight #5, House of Secrets #92 and some other goodies - all in the VF range. I didn't feel the need to show the seller the kids' Wizard guide (he was watching the kids go through it) and offer him more money - he had them priced and I paid.

No Guilt.

 

I'm sure your parents must be very proud.

 

Personally, I can't pull that kind of , and have identified key issues to sellers in a similar situation. Scamming a few comics isn't worth it, and most times I have been rewarded for my honesty.

 

And just because you felt no guilt doesn't make it right. Some friends of mine work at a youth detention center and those sappers wouldn't feel anything if they car-jacked you, raped your girlfriend, and busted your skull.

 

No guilt. I guess that makes their actions A-Okay too.

[Crowzilla]

Personally, I can't pull that kind of

 

Sorry, I don't see it as pulling when a guy knows the books are worth something (and is watching kids go through their Wizard trying to cherry-pick him), but puts the price he wants on them and I pay it.

And if you don't see a difference between that and someone raping your girlfriend, you have more problems than I have time to address here.

 

It's very different from when a guy brings a stack of Silver Age into my store (including Fantasy #15 and Hulk #1), asks me about them and if they are worth anything, and I go through the guide with him, grade them and make him a nice offer based on what i thought I could sell them for.

 

Would I have paid the yard-sale guy more if he had walked into my store and asked for my offer - absolutely. But if I go to his yard sale and am looking at comics he priced, there is nothing wrong with paying that price.

 

CI, if you bought a raw comic at a store or show that the seller told you was NM, and you send it in to get slabbed and it comes back as NM+ or better do you give the seller some extra money the next time you see him? My guess is probably not. The seller told you a price, and you bought it - end of story.

 

[FlyingDonut]

You Gypsy

You Tramp!

You Thief!

 

according to the CI logic, you should now

 

1) feel like a scumbag lowlife weasel

2) offer the person (who had his items clearly marked and priced) more money

3) track those kids down and make THEM give the guy money

4) and never do this again.

 

I'm sure your parents must be very proud.

 

Personally, I can't pull that kind of , and have identified key issues to sellers in a similar situation. Scamming a few comics isn't worth it, and most times I have been rewarded for my honesty.

 

And just because you felt no guilt doesn't make it right. Some friends of mine work at a youth detention center and those sappers wouldn't feel anything if they car-jacked you, raped your girlfriend, and busted your skull.

 

You know, now you've just gotten stupid. I guess we're all just thieves and you're right.

 

Let's all just admit that EVERYBODY who buys a comic from somebody and doesn't pay FULL OVERSTREET VALUE plus whatever mark-up there currently is in the marketplace is a total scumbag hole who is going directly to hell. Furthermore, anybody who doesn't think this way is a lying, backstabbing scumbag.

 

I used to value reading your posts and your insight. On a lot of things we agreed. On a lot of things we didn't. But your continued rant on this just is enough. I'm tired of it, and I'm tired of my ethics and morals being called into question. You can damn well be sure that I can sleep at night.

[supapimp]

i'll pay full 100% overstreet for books i want in raw NM, back in 1991 i had a traders ad in CBG offering 150% of guide for NM STT 107 & 114......needless to say, no reply, but now im sure you can see why.