When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[namisgr]

Trying to move the discussion forward, I'm curious what people think about the market impact that widespread pressing of the recent past has wrought.

 

Forget whose market report it was in the latest Overstreet, but at least one advisor argued that pressing has contributed to major softening of prices for thousands of SA and BA comics. Indeed, as a general rule, if it's post-1964 and not a key, it's come way down in price in high grade over the past five years or so.

 

Yes, there's a good side to this, in the increasing affordability of a lot of SA and BA high grade material. Still, does anyone think it's good for the long-term health of the back issue market that non-keys in high grade have cratered so much in price? Dealers lost a lot of money collectively as their high grade inventory lost value, and that certainly can't be good for the hobby in the long-term. Collectors suffer when they eventually want to re-sell material if said books must be sold at a significant loss. In response to this, it seems more and more dealers are focusing their businesses on SA keys, which have retained their value well relative to the high grade non-key surrounding issues.

 

Eventually, even the market for keys is likely to be unable to sustain acceptable profit margins for most dealers, and the crack-press-resub cycle will be one of diminishing returns.

[DiceX]

I obviously am communicating poorly. Again, I am not talking about the pressing itself. I am talking about CGC's position on pressing. For years, it was undetectable. That was their position, time and time again. Bad press jobs got lip service occasionally. Of course bad jobs (a la Hooks' waffles) were always known to be detectable.

 

But now, after Matt comes in house, there is a new vibe that CGC is really out there looking for the signs of bad press jobs. Were I inclined to worry about pressing, I would be upset. Why not put that out there before? Maybe the press-fest slows down, because people are worried about damaging books, as opposed to the "damn the torpedoes, press 'em all and let God sort them out" free for all that has come into play in the last 3 years.

 

The only reason it's there is to put the seed of doubt into customer's minds and push them to using the in-house pressing service.

It's all self serving.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Trying to move the discussion forward, I'm curious what people think about the market impact that widespread pressing of the recent past has wrought.

 

Forget whose market report it was in the latest Overstreet, but at least one advisor argued that pressing has contributed to major softening of prices for thousands of SA and BA comics. Indeed, as a general rule, if it's post-1964 and not a key, it's come way down in price in high grade over the past five years or so.

 

It has--sort of. I'd say 95% of my collection was bought between 2000 and 2004 when pressing wasn't as rampant. My books at their current grades are softer than they would have been, but if I "maximize the potential" of what I own, I suspect I'm back up to where I would have otherwise been, or more likely, higher than I otherwise would have been. So yes, it softens the market, but if you play the game, I suspect you do better than you would have.

[fantastic_four]

I obviously am communicating poorly. Again, I am not talking about the pressing itself. I am talking about CGC's position on pressing. For years, it was undetectable. That was their position, time and time again. Bad press jobs got lip service occasionally. Of course bad jobs (a la Hooks' waffles) were always known to be detectable.

 

But now, after Matt comes in house, there is a new vibe that CGC is really out there looking for the signs of bad press jobs. Were I inclined to worry about pressing, I would be upset. Why not put that out there before? Maybe the press-fest slows down, because people are worried about damaging books, as opposed to the "damn the torpedoes, press 'em all and let God sort them out" free for all that has come into play in the last 3 years.

 

The only reason it's there is to put the seed of doubt into customer's minds and push them to using the in-house pressing service.

It's all self serving.

 

Sorry if I overlooked this in the thread, but what exactly is the "new vibe" you two are referring to? Is it those "how to detect a bad press" articles Matt is putting into the CGC newsletter?

[DrWatson]

I obviously am communicating poorly. Again, I am not talking about the pressing itself. I am talking about CGC's position on pressing. For years, it was undetectable. That was their position, time and time again. Bad press jobs got lip service occasionally. Of course bad jobs (a la Hooks' waffles) were always known to be detectable.

 

But now, after Matt comes in house, there is a new vibe that CGC is really out there looking for the signs of bad press jobs. Were I inclined to worry about pressing, I would be upset. Why not put that out there before? Maybe the press-fest slows down, because people are worried about damaging books, as opposed to the "damn the torpedoes, press 'em all and let God sort them out" free for all that has come into play in the last 3 years.

The position changed because they now have an in house service that does... wait for it... pressing. That's why there have been pressing factoids or tidbits in some of the emails from the CGC recently talking about poor press jobs.

[DrWatson]

Trying to move the discussion forward, I'm curious what people think about the market impact that widespread pressing of the recent past has wrought.

 

Forget whose market report it was in the latest Overstreet, but at least one advisor argued that pressing has contributed to major softening of prices for thousands of SA and BA comics. Indeed, as a general rule, if it's post-1964 and not a key, it's come way down in price in high grade over the past five years or so.

 

It has--sort of. I'd say 95% of my collection was bought between 2000 and 2004 when pressing wasn't as rampant. My books at their current grades are softer than they would have been, but if I "maximize the potential" of what I own, I suspect I'm back up to where I would have otherwise been, or more likely, higher than I otherwise would have been. So yes, it softens the market, but if you play the game, I suspect you do better than you would have.

You can't blame the softening market entirely on pressing. I'm sure it has a role to play, but so has the multitude of new collections coming to the market. If no one's noticed, there's an auction every week. Stuff that was thought to be scarce in high grade, isn't.

[fantastic_four]

I obviously am communicating poorly. Again, I am not talking about the pressing itself. I am talking about CGC's position on pressing. For years, it was undetectable. That was their position, time and time again. Bad press jobs got lip service occasionally. Of course bad jobs (a la Hooks' waffles) were always known to be detectable.

 

But now, after Matt comes in house, there is a new vibe that CGC is really out there looking for the signs of bad press jobs. Were I inclined to worry about pressing, I would be upset. Why not put that out there before? Maybe the press-fest slows down, because people are worried about damaging books, as opposed to the "damn the torpedoes, press 'em all and let God sort them out" free for all that has come into play in the last 3 years.

The position changed because they now have an in house service that does... wait for it... pressing. That's why there have been pressing factoids or tidbits in some of the emails from the CGC recently talking about poor press jobs.

 

I'm not seeing why there's thinking here that their position changed. From the very first time I saw Borock publicly comment on the undetectability of pressing, he also commented upon the detectability of bad pressing. Matt putting out those "how to detect a bad press" articles makes complete sense from a marketing and education perspective, and they don't constitute any change in CGC's stance on pressing--they still can't detect it when it's done right.

[namisgr]

I obviously am communicating poorly. Again, I am not talking about the pressing itself. I am talking about CGC's position on pressing. For years, it was undetectable. That was their position, time and time again. Bad press jobs got lip service occasionally. Of course bad jobs (a la Hooks' waffles) were always known to be detectable.

 

But now, after Matt comes in house, there is a new vibe that CGC is really out there looking for the signs of bad press jobs. Were I inclined to worry about pressing, I would be upset. Why not put that out there before? Maybe the press-fest slows down, because people are worried about damaging books, as opposed to the "damn the torpedoes, press 'em all and let God sort them out" free for all that has come into play in the last 3 years.

The position changed because they now have an in house service that does... wait for it... pressing. That's why there have been pressing factoids or tidbits in some of the emails from the CGC recently talking about poor press jobs.

 

Agreed. It's no coincidence that whereas Matt has been pressing comics and lauding the value of the process to prospective customers for many years, it's only now that CGC has brought the business in-house is the stand being taken and highly publicized that there are a lot of badly pressed books out there.

[krighton]

when I stopped being able to tell the minute difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8...or is that when CGC stopped being able to tell the difference......

[fantastic_four]

Trying to move the discussion forward, I'm curious what people think about the market impact that widespread pressing of the recent past has wrought.

 

Forget whose market report it was in the latest Overstreet, but at least one advisor argued that pressing has contributed to major softening of prices for thousands of SA and BA comics. Indeed, as a general rule, if it's post-1964 and not a key, it's come way down in price in high grade over the past five years or so.

 

It has--sort of. I'd say 95% of my collection was bought between 2000 and 2004 when pressing wasn't as rampant. My books at their current grades are softer than they would have been, but if I "maximize the potential" of what I own, I suspect I'm back up to where I would have otherwise been, or more likely, higher than I otherwise would have been. So yes, it softens the market, but if you play the game, I suspect you do better than you would have.

You can't blame the softening market entirely on pressing. I'm sure it has a role to play, but so has the multitude of new collections coming to the market. If no one's noticed, there's an auction every week. Stuff that was thought to be scarce in high grade, isn't.

 

Agree--my bad, I didn't mean to agree with the assertion that pressing is responsible for "major" softening. Just moderate softening with prices going down to a level that is heading in the direction that a grade level below them used to go for, i.e. what a 9.4 used to go for is headed towards what a 9.6 now goes for. It hasn't gotten there yet for any of the Silver titles I watch, but it's on the way and I won't be surprised if all the prices get ratcheted down a level.

[VintageComics]

Trying to move the discussion forward, I'm curious what people think about the market impact that widespread pressing of the recent past has wrought.

 

Forget whose market report it was in the latest Overstreet, but at least one advisor argued that pressing has contributed to major softening of prices for thousands of SA and BA comics. Indeed, as a general rule, if it's post-1964 and not a key, it's come way down in price in high grade over the past five years or so.

 

It has--sort of. I'd say 95% of my collection was bought between 2000 and 2004 when pressing wasn't as rampant. My books at their current grades are softer than they would have been, but if I "maximize the potential" of what I own, I suspect I'm back up to where I would have otherwise been, or more likely, higher than I otherwise would have been. So yes, it softens the market, but if you play the game, I suspect you do better than you would have.

You can't blame the softening market entirely on pressing. I'm sure it has a role to play, but so has the multitude of new collections coming to the market. If no one's noticed, there's an auction every week. Stuff that was thought to be scarce in high grade, isn't.

 

Agreed to a point

 

The market took a decent sized correction over the past few years (as it does almost every decade) but prices seem to have stabilized for the most part and much of the broad market is starting to plateau and / or rebound and has been for some time.

 

One side of the coin is that there is increased supply (pressing, auctions, collections, etc)

 

The other is that there are many new buyers constantly entering the market. The feedback that I am getting is that there are plenty of new buyers coming in all the time. I'm seeing it myself.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

when I stopped being able to tell the minute difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8...or is that when CGC stopped being able to tell the difference......

 

When could you tell the difference?

[krighton]

i'm starting to doubt I ever could

when I stopped being able to tell the minute difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8...or is that when CGC stopped being able to tell the difference......

 

When could you tell the difference?

 

i'm starting to doubt I ever could.

[thunsicker]

when I stopped being able to tell the minute difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8...or is that when CGC stopped being able to tell the difference......

 

When could you tell the difference?

 

When they published the grading standards (Overstreet, not CGC)

[fantastic_four]

Trying to move the discussion forward, I'm curious what people think about the market impact that widespread pressing of the recent past has wrought.

 

Forget whose market report it was in the latest Overstreet, but at least one advisor argued that pressing has contributed to major softening of prices for thousands of SA and BA comics. Indeed, as a general rule, if it's post-1964 and not a key, it's come way down in price in high grade over the past five years or so.

 

It has--sort of. I'd say 95% of my collection was bought between 2000 and 2004 when pressing wasn't as rampant. My books at their current grades are softer than they would have been, but if I "maximize the potential" of what I own, I suspect I'm back up to where I would have otherwise been, or more likely, higher than I otherwise would have been. So yes, it softens the market, but if you play the game, I suspect you do better than you would have.

You can't blame the softening market entirely on pressing. I'm sure it has a role to play, but so has the multitude of new collections coming to the market. If no one's noticed, there's an auction every week. Stuff that was thought to be scarce in high grade, isn't.

 

Agreed to a point

 

The market took a decent sized correction over the past few years (as it does almost every decade) but prices seem to have stabilized for the most part and much of the broad market is starting to plateau and / or rebound and has been for some time.

 

I expect the crappy economy has contributed more to softening of the market than increased supply of high grade due to pressing, but there's little or no doubt they've both contributed their part.

[VintageComics]

Trying to move the discussion forward, I'm curious what people think about the market impact that widespread pressing of the recent past has wrought.

 

Forget whose market report it was in the latest Overstreet, but at least one advisor argued that pressing has contributed to major softening of prices for thousands of SA and BA comics. Indeed, as a general rule, if it's post-1964 and not a key, it's come way down in price in high grade over the past five years or so.

 

It has--sort of. I'd say 95% of my collection was bought between 2000 and 2004 when pressing wasn't as rampant. My books at their current grades are softer than they would have been, but if I "maximize the potential" of what I own, I suspect I'm back up to where I would have otherwise been, or more likely, higher than I otherwise would have been. So yes, it softens the market, but if you play the game, I suspect you do better than you would have.

You can't blame the softening market entirely on pressing. I'm sure it has a role to play, but so has the multitude of new collections coming to the market. If no one's noticed, there's an auction every week. Stuff that was thought to be scarce in high grade, isn't.

 

Agreed to a point

 

The market took a decent sized correction over the past few years (as it does almost every decade) but prices seem to have stabilized for the most part and much of the broad market is starting to plateau and / or rebound and has been for some time.

 

I expect the crappy economy has contributed more to softening of the market than increased supply of high grade due to pressing, but there's little or no doubt they've both contributed their part.

 

I tried to reasonably argue that the economy is the single largest factor and got shot down in flames for it. Why am I not shocked that you, yet again, agree with me.

 

I still think it is mostly related to the economy for all. Crappy economy increases supply (people sell because they need money) and decreases demand (people stop buying because money is tight).

 

The correction in the hobby and the timing of the economic change are exactly parallel.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

Boring?

 

God forbid that we should actually discuss comics and the comic market when we could be posting as-funny-as-kidney-stones memes, spouting 'pernts' at every turn like plankton with tourettes, contributing to birthday threads for boarders who haven't posted since 1814, and attempting to get each and every thread locked so that people can up their score in the Vegetable Challenge.

 

[DamageInc-migration]

I obviously am communicating poorly. Again, I am not talking about the pressing itself. I am talking about CGC's position on pressing. For years, it was undetectable. That was their position, time and time again. Bad press jobs got lip service occasionally. Of course bad jobs (a la Hooks' waffles) were always known to be detectable.

 

But now, after Matt comes in house, there is a new vibe that CGC is really out there looking for the signs of bad press jobs. Were I inclined to worry about pressing, I would be upset. Why not put that out there before? Maybe the press-fest slows down, because people are worried about damaging books, as opposed to the "damn the torpedoes, press 'em all and let God sort them out" free for all that has come into play in the last 3 years.

The position changed because they now have an in house service that does... wait for it... pressing. That's why there have been pressing factoids or tidbits in some of the emails from the CGC recently talking about poor press jobs.

 

I'm not seeing why there's thinking here that their position changed. From the very first time I saw Borock publicly comment on the undetectability of pressing, he also commented upon the detectability of bad pressing. Matt putting out those "how to detect a bad press" articles makes complete sense from a marketing and education perspective, and they don't constitute any change in CGC's stance on pressing--they still can't detect it when it's done right.

 

But why wasn't CGC trying the educate the public about staining, warping, edge rippling, crushed spines, reverse spine-roll, flaring / butterfly, cockling, pebbling, gloss stains and melted inks 5 years ago?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Boring?

 

God forbid that we should actually discuss comics and the comic market when we could be posting as-funny-as-kidney-stones memes, spouting 'pernts' at every turn like plankton with tourettes, contributing to birthday threads for boarders who haven't posted since 1814, and attempting to get each and every thread locked so that people can up their score in the Vegetable Challenge.

 

[Gotham Kid]

 

But why wasn't CGC trying the educate the public about staining, warping, edge rippling, crushed spines, reverse spine-roll, flaring / butterfly, cockling, pebbling, gloss stains and melted inks 5 years ago?

 

Wow ! I'm not even familiar with half those terms ...