When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[fantastic_four]

O no, did this turn into a real pressing thread?

I trust y'all finally worked it out at least?

 

It always was a real pressing thread. For a moment I thought it wasn't, but now i see that was a bit of confusion and we're back now to the same old religious issues.

[Spiderphill]

Bump for the closet pressers

[aggr1103]

I'm so tired of these threads,but I can understand you guys have to get it out every now and again.

Roy it's not always about the money,sometimes it could be for the love of the medium.

 

I think the above is worth repeating.

 

I suppose most people press comic books to make their books be worth more money. And a much smaller contingent presses a book because they want a nicer looking book in their collection.

 

I'm guilty of this. Ask Joeypost about the condition of the GSX 1 I asked him to press. Never worth being slabbed, but presents so much better in a mylar now that it has been pressed.

[VintageComics]

As for AF # 13 vs AF # 15, I think you're mainly making a comment on the way that you think about comics to just jump to the conclusion that it's all about money. Do you not think it might be about the fact that many people are massive Spider Man fans and owning a copy of his first appearance would be the ultimate grail, regardless of value? I would hate to see any early Silver Age book destroyed (or any other defacement or procedure that you might care to list) but unsurprisingly, I care more about the books that I have an emotional connection to. Beyond that, a more popular book also has more copies that people want to hold on to and less available to buy for someone to buy for themselves.

 

Garry, just to be clear, I don't feel 'money' about comics. I'm a collector as much as I am a dealer but most of the comics I enjoy collecting are not about value, they are about nostalgia. Even as a dealer, I "fondle and cherish" every comic I lay my hands on for processing. I smell the paper, I enjoy the letters pages and house ads, etc.

 

I do understand how people feel about old comics for that reason because I feel the same way.

 

As I've stated though, all conclusions based on these discussions over the past 9 years seem to point to money being the higher, or highest cause of outrage.

 

The first pressing thread I ever read was about a GSX #1 that went from 8.0 - 9.0, I think. Besides the question of how the book went from one holder and up into a higher grade one, the discussion also mentioned the profit the person made. I don't think most people realized there was pressing going on at the time. I certainly didn't.

 

Then as the threads started to compound and pressing started to become more prevalent there were parallel discussions going on that could probably be fairly narrowed down into these 3 topics -

 

a) feelings over damage being done to books

b) feelings over how a book did make it to the present in that grade and that it had to be pressed to get it that way and

c) feelings over money being lost/made.

 

Most of the discussions in regards to damage were centered around a lack of understanding of how pressing actually worked. In the big picture, the argument that pressing damages books is more or less unfounded at this point although the door is open to possibility as more info comes in.

 

Most of the discussions in regards to a book making it "all these years in the condition it was in without being pressed" is a valid one. I'm not discounting how people feel about it at all. In fact I can relate to it being a collector of old things. It's just that to me personally, the process of pressing, which uses moderate heat, pressure and humidity is so close to naturally occurring (it uses naturally occurring processes and does actually occur naturally to books in some circumstances), that I personally find it negligible and personally don't care about it. That's why i use the word benign. I feel it fits the process perfectly.

 

The money lost/made part is often stated as "trickery" or deceit by people who are outraged. Where the outrage comes from, from what I can see, is when people are upset about paying 9.6 price for a book that was pressed into that grade. When people try to bring the "dishonest" angle, I always fall back on that story about the resin. They freely paid fairly for a product as it was presented.

 

You didn't know the book was not a 9.6 before? Well that's one way of looking at it, but then how many other things do you not know about the book? That it was stored in rat poop? That it was covered with cockroaches at one point? That someone read it on the toilet? That someone dropped a booger on it and wiped it off but now you can't tell?

 

I realize I'm exaggerating a bit to prove my point, but my point is this - I realize there are valid arguments to be made about how people feel about pressing and I realize that feelings vary on the topic I just personally have a hard time getting angry at a benign process when I remove qualities that can disappear naturally.

 

Again, I ask would a person be outraged if I was flipping through an Amazing Fantasy #15 and put a dent in it? It's the reverse of pressing a comic but it equally alters the AF #15 (but in reverse order)?

 

No, I don't think so - unless it was their personal comic and there was a financial loss to someone them.

 

Again, money.

 

I'm not sure if I'm making my point. I realize I'm overly verbose. Also, I really won't have much of a chance to continue replying all that much as I'm getting ready to travel to Chicago for the show.

 

I'm not trying to upset anyone so apologies if I do. I'm just trying to discuss that there are a variety of reasons for feelings on the subject with money being the greatest polarizing factor. I'm not the only one that has come to that conclusion. I might just be the most vocal about it.

 

If anyone still disagrees, I can accept that. (thumbs u

[The-Collector]

As for AF # 13 vs AF # 15, I think you're mainly making a comment on the way that you think about comics to just jump to the conclusion that it's all about money. Do you not think it might be about the fact that many people are massive Spider Man fans and owning a copy of his first appearance would be the ultimate grail, regardless of value? I would hate to see any early Silver Age book destroyed (or any other defacement or procedure that you might care to list) but unsurprisingly, I care more about the books that I have an emotional connection to. Beyond that, a more popular book also has more copies that people want to hold on to and less available to buy for someone to buy for themselves.

 

Garry, just to be clear, I don't feel 'money' about comics. I'm a collector as much as I am a dealer but most of the comics I enjoy collecting are not about value, they are about nostalgia. Even as a dealer, I "fondle and cherish" every comic I lay my hands on for processing. I smell the paper, I enjoy the letters pages and house ads, etc.

 

I do understand how people feel about old comics for that reason because I feel the same way.

 

As I've stated though, all conclusions based on these discussions over the past 9 years seem to point to money being the higher, or highest cause of outrage.

 

The first pressing thread I ever read was about a GSX #1 that went from 8.0 - 9.0, I think. Besides the question of how the book went from one holder and up into a higher grade one, the discussion also mentioned the profit the person made. I don't think most people realized there was pressing going on at the time. I certainly didn't.

 

Then as the threads started to compound and pressing started to become more prevalent there were parallel discussions going on that could probably be fairly narrowed down into these 3 topics -

 

a) feelings over damage being done to books

b) feelings over how a book did make it to the present in that grade and that it had to be pressed to get it that way and

c) feelings over money being lost/made.

 

Most of the discussions in regards to damage were centered around a lack of understanding of how pressing actually worked. In the big picture, the argument that pressing damages books is more or less unfounded at this point although the door is open to possibility as more info comes in.

 

Most of the discussions in regards to a book making it "all these years in the condition it was in without being pressed" is a valid one. I'm not discounting how people feel about it at all. In fact I can relate to it being a collector of old things. It's just that to me personally, the process of pressing, which uses moderate heat, pressure and humidity is so close to naturally occurring (it uses naturally occurring processes and does actually occur naturally to books in some circumstances), that I personally find it negligible and personally don't care about it. That's why i use the word benign. I feel it fits the process perfectly.

 

The money lost/made part is often stated as "trickery" or deceit by people who are outraged. Where the outrage comes from, from what I can see, is when people are upset about paying 9.6 price for a book that was pressed into that grade. When people try to bring the "dishonest" angle, I always fall back on that story about the resin. They freely paid fairly for a product as it was presented.

 

You didn't know the book was not a 9.6 before? Well that's one way of looking at it, but then how many other things do you not know about the book? That it was stored in rat poop? That it was covered with cockroaches at one point? That someone read it on the toilet? That someone dropped a booger on it and wiped it off but now you can't tell?

 

I realize I'm exaggerating a bit to prove my point, but my point is this - I realize there are valid arguments to be made about how people feel about pressing and I realize that feelings vary on the topic I just personally have a hard time getting angry at a benign process when I remove qualities that can disappear naturally.

 

Again, I ask would a person be outraged if I was flipping through an Amazing Fantasy #15 and put a dent in it? It's the reverse of pressing a comic but it equally alters the AF #15 (but in reverse order)?

 

No, I don't think so - unless it was there comic and there was a financial loss to someone else.

 

I'm not sure if I'm making my point. I realize I'm overly verbose. Also, I really won't have much of a chance to continue replying all that much as I'm getting ready to travel to Chicago for the show.

 

I'm not trying to upset anyone so apologies if I do. I'm just trying to discuss that there are a variety of reasons for feelings on the subject with money being the greatest polarizing factor. I'm not the only one that has come to that conclusion. I might just be the most vocal about it.

 

If anyone still disagrees, I can accept that. (thumbs u

 

Excellent post. I dont think it was verbose.

[gaz973]

I'm not saying that money isn't a factor in peoples dislike of pressing. For example, if I'm honest it bugs me that people make money out of diminishing the pool of comics that I would like to own. It also bugs me that some comics that I own have been devalued by the fact that I do not wish to have them restored (as i see it).

 

These however are not the main reasons why I've taken a dislike to pressing, I've already stated some of them in an earlier post. For you to state that it's all about the money was just wrong and to me, mildly insulting as it trivialises the real reasons why I don't like it and makes it seem like all I care about is money. If my dislike of pressing was all about money then I could easily make a lot of money by accepting pressing and getting my books pressed so the argument doesn't even make sense to me.

[VintageComics]

I'm not saying that money isn't a factor in peoples dislike of pressing. For example, if I'm honest it bugs me that people make money out of diminishing the pool of comics that I would like to own. It also bugs me that some comics that I own have been devalued by the fact that I do not wish to have them restored (as i see it).

 

These however are not the main reasons why I've taken a dislike to pressing, I've already stated some of them in an earlier post. For you to state that it's all about the money was just wrong and to me, mildly insulting as it trivialises the real reasons why I don't like it and makes it seem like all I care about is money. If my dislike of pressing was all about money then I could easily make a lot of money by accepting pressing and getting my books pressed so the argument doesn't even make sense to me.

 

Fair enough.

 

 

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Honestly, reading this thread it seems like the majority of people are OK with pressing. There is just a very loud, vocal minority that is outraged.

 

And I think the majority of us would disclose pressing.

[gaz973]

Again, I ask would a person be outraged if I was flipping through an Amazing Fantasy #15 and put a dent in it? It's the reverse of pressing a comic but it equally alters the AF #15 (but in reverse order)?

 

I wouldn't be outraged at an accident but I would be very sad that it had happened. Pressing isn't an accident, it's a choice.

[VintageComics]

Again, I ask would a person be outraged if I was flipping through an Amazing Fantasy #15 and put a dent in it? It's the reverse of pressing a comic but it equally alters the AF #15 (but in reverse order)?

 

I wouldn't be outraged at an accident but I would be very sad that it had happened. Pressing isn't an accident, it's a choice.

 

Fair enough although the argument can be made that the choice is being made to read the comic (and inflict the dent) as well.

 

As comics move in standing from just an article to antique and finally to artifact I can understand people being upset about someone even reading say, an Action #1 or an Amazing Fantasy #15. I'd still read it though if it was my book.

 

 

[Spiderphill]

Comic books are like dress shirts. Iron out the wrinkles.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Honestly, reading this thread it seems like the majority of people are OK with pressing. There is just a very loud, vocal minority that is outraged.

 

And I think the majority of us would disclose pressing.

 

The majority of people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - don't even realise that pressing is being undertaken on this scale. The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

[VintageComics]

I didn't click on this link when the thread was originally posted but for whatever reason, I did today. I think it well illustrates my point about money creating outrage.

 

The second guy in the video (with the white hair) is Cory Glaberson. Just a terrific, cool cat of a dealer. Notice how he doesn't freak out? He just kind of looks at her with wonder.

 

Every other person freaked out though. Why did they freak out when she rips the comic?

 

I don't think they freaked out because the book was a historic book (which it is). I think they all freaked out because a Hulk #181 is valuable book and she ripped it in half. If it was a Spawn #?? I doubt anymore would care.

 

Anyhow, now I really gotta go.

 

[fantastic_four]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

[Flaming_Telepath]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

[fantastic_four]

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

No. 98% of the market doesn't buy books expensive enough for restoration to even be a risk, so it isn't even on their radar.

[Jeffro.]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

 

Why are you assuming that the 99% of people who don't post here automatically consider pressing to be restoration? That's a mighty big assumption

[october]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

 

I was once over at the home of a collector who was very outspoken in his disapproval of pressing. He hated the practice, he joined all of the arguments, he strained comic friendships over it, etc. Anyway, he shows me one of his silver age keys, and before the book is even out of the box I can spot the black sharpie color touch from a good ten feet away. The ink had been literally slathered all over the cover. He had no idea. Stuck me as funny and bizarre that someone who had spent literally hundreds of hours thinking and arguing about pressing couldn't spot the most basic and sloppily applied amateur color touch....and something tells me he wouldn't be the only one to fit that mould.

[Flaming_Telepath]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

 

Why are you assuming that the 99% of people who don't post here automatically consider pressing to be restoration? That's a mighty big assumption

 

OK, I'll give you that...a bit of exaggeration on my part.

 

What I'm saying is that if you don't do the CGC thing, but are aware of grading/restoration issues, you'll be old school Overstreet and will consider pressing to be resto.

 

It was CGC that changed that classification.

[Flaming_Telepath]

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

No. 98% of the market doesn't buy books expensive enough for restoration to even be a risk, so it isn't even on their radar.

 

Untrue.

 

And I have a large client base that buys expensive raw and belies your assertion.