When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[fantastic_four]

2. I wouldn't be able to handle leaving a ton of money on the table because I didn't press a book. It's easy for me though because I never viewed pressing as a hex or something bad. I buy pressed books and will even have my books pressed that are for my personal collection.

 

That's the reason that pisses me off the most. I really don't care much about pressing--just a little. But because it's decreasing the market for high-end books by increasing supply, I feel FORCED to press. Like I'm losing some of the appreciation on books I've owned for a decade or more if I DON'T press because other people pressing and increasing the supply has decreased the value of my books a bit, and the only way to regain that value is to play the same game hundreds of other high-end collectors are playing.

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose many thousands that other collectors who press have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

Will you really be literally losing money by not pressing your books or will you just not be making as much as you could do? You're not forced to get them pressed, not everyone does.

 

Are you suggesting that pressing doesn't increase populations for a grade thereby reducing market value for that grade?

[gaz973]

2. I wouldn't be able to handle leaving a ton of money on the table because I didn't press a book. It's easy for me though because I never viewed pressing as a hex or something bad. I buy pressed books and will even have my books pressed that are for my personal collection.

 

That's the reason that pisses me off the most. I really don't care much about pressing--just a little. But because it's decreasing the market for high-end books by increasing supply, I feel FORCED to press. Like I'm losing some of the appreciation on books I've owned for a decade or more if I DON'T press because other people pressing and increasing the supply has decreased the value of my books a bit, and the only way to regain that value is to play the same game hundreds of other high-end collectors are playing.

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose many thousands that other collectors who press have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

Will you really be literally losing money by not pressing your books or will you just not be making as much as you could do? You're not forced to get them pressed, not everyone does.

 

Are you suggesting that pressing doesn't increase populations for a grade thereby reducing market value for that grade?

 

Not at all, I'm just asking if the loss of value from pressing is greater or less than the general appreciation in value since you first bought them, particularly since it sounds like you've owned a lot of them for a considerable time.

[Spiderphill]

2. I wouldn't be able to handle leaving a ton of money on the table because I didn't press a book. It's easy for me though because I never viewed pressing as a hex or something bad. I buy pressed books and will even have my books pressed that are for my personal collection.

 

That's the reason that pisses me off the most. I really don't care much about pressing--just a little. But because it's decreasing the market for high-end books by increasing supply, I feel FORCED to press. Like I'm losing some of the appreciation on books I've owned for a decade or more if I DON'T press because other people pressing and increasing the supply has decreased the value of my books a bit, and the only way to regain that value is to play the same game hundreds of other high-end collectors are playing.

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose many thousands that other collectors who press have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

Will you really be literally losing money by not pressing your books or will you just not be making as much as you could do? You're not forced to get them pressed, not everyone does.

 

Are you suggesting that pressing doesn't increase populations for a grade thereby reducing market value for that grade?

 

Not at all, I'm just asking if the loss of value from pressing is greater or less than the general appreciation in value since you first bought them, particularly since it sounds like you've owned a lot of them for a considerable time.

Doesn't matter, even if the value of the long term hold out weighs the pressing numbers, he is still forced to press his books. Unless he doesn't mind watching his asm 1 jump to a 9.2 and be happy.

[fantastic_four]

Are you suggesting that pressing doesn't increase populations for a grade thereby reducing market value for that grade?

 

Not at all, I'm just asking if the loss of value from pressing is greater or less than the general appreciation in value since you first bought them, particularly since it sounds like you've owned a lot of them for a considerable time.

 

I'm up on most of them, but if I don't press, I'm flushing money down the toilet and keeping them tied up in bad place because they haven't increased for years, so I've been losing money for years on them to inflation. Part of that is due to the economy, but part is due to increased supply due in part to pressing.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

You know, I think the better question is "Why do we feel the need to press every sub?" Why has the market inflated the value of a 9.2 over a 9.0.

 

The only book I've had pressed, that I know of, went from a 9.0 to a 9.2. Now not a big jump, but it was the difference of more than $200. Why is that? The book looks no difference in the holder (minus the Stan Lee sig I added at the same time).

 

We all preach "Buy the book not the slab" but is that really true? We'd all love to say we follow that golden rule. How many of us, if it was the same price, would honestly buy a 9.0 over a 9.2? Even if the eye appeal was better? I'd like to say I would, but I'm not sure.

 

What is even worse is when you get up in to the higher grades. The difference between a 9.4 and a 9.6 is insane. Why? Can anyone really tell? So why do we press?

 

And does anyone see more than a .2 or .4 jump? I guess you could go from a 8.0 to a 9. Since CGC doesn't do the .2 or .4 that might be worth it, but again, in a slab can you tell a difference?

 

Why do we press books? I'd say it is because of CGC.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Is it automatically greed to try and make money? Is it automatically greed to take a product, enhance it, and sell it for more money than it cost you to buy and enhance it? Isn't that how 8 zillion of us make money?

 

Isn't that how comics work? You take a piece of paper and some ink/pencil, apply your ideas and hard work and have something more valuable? The publisher takes that image, and reproduces the pages a zillion times and sells those comics? What about the comic book store? They didn't make the comic. Is it ok that they are looking for profit by selling you a comic that they had no hand in creating or preserving?

 

Just because people don't like pressing doesn't make pressing equivalent to evil or 'swindling'. If you can be in an expensive hobby and not worry about future financial ramifications of your hobby, I feel fantastic for you that you can take that position. But if you're a dealer working with thin margins and your kids depend on you for food and shelter based on the BUSINESS you do, you make your choice and take your consequences where they lie. Be honest and ethical (disclose as much as possible) and do your thing, its your comic.

 

Is it dishonest for me to press a comic which I've owned for 20 years, slab it, leave it on my shelf for 20 years, then sell it (with full disclosure) to pay for my grandson's college? Are those somehow ill gotten gains? Did I swindle someone?

 

No, it's not dishonest. Some people think it is, though. Some of those people have a socialist/communist malaise bad feeling about capitalism in general, but more of them just wish the comics hobby could be simple and that money wasn't a part of it. Like the mom n' pop shops or book exchanges of the 1930s through the 1950s where people bought old comics and newspaper for a dime or so. Few likely actually consciously think, that, though...they've just become bitter in various, subtle ways about the money pervading the vintage comics hobby.

 

Most people just don't like the idea of other people reaching into their pockets. So if you dislike pressing to begin with, the people grifting from you are sellers of pressed books or buyers of your own books who press your stuff and flip it at a profit. Both of those money-related activities people off more than anything else about pressing--at least seriously enough to seriously curtail or exit the hobby.

 

Who the are you attempting to speak for? Why not speak for yourself, rather than speak nonsense about others.

 

Seriously .

 

[Prince Namor]

I always disclose if a book I sell has been pressed or not (to my knowledge) as a courtesy and respect to the market place, and so that buyers can know if the fiber's have been compromised.

 

That's the reason we disclose, right?

 

Right?

[namisgr]

I always disclose if a book I sell has been pressed or not (to my knowledge) as a courtesy and respect to the market place, and so that buyers can know if the fiber's have been compromised.

 

That's the reason we disclose, right?

 

Right?

 

You've heard otherwise several times in this thread. If a comic is manipulated using a machine to improve its appearance, then for some collectors the thrill of owning a book that survived decades in extraordinary shape is lost.

[delekkerste]

Why confusing? At the source, it's because it's undetectable, whereas almost all other forms of restoration can be found.

 

And all other forms of restoration get the PLOD treatment. If CGC had decided to give the PLOD to pressed books, that would have cut that out real quick like. But, due to practical issues (having to speculate at times on detection) and business considerations, CGC embraced pressing instead of giving it the scarlet label treatment.

 

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose many thousands that other collectors who press have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

 

I sold off a good number of my slabs a number of years ago, but I still have more than 200 remaining. Almost all of them are old label books (and, yes, while pressing did exist back in those days, given that these books largely aren't squashed and have obvious pressable defects, I'd bet that very few were...excepting those purchased from one particular dealer who was an early adopter of pressing - not sure about those). I'd wager that most of the books could be straight re-subbed for a straight grade bump, given how far CGC's grading standards have fallen (my grading eye is stuck in 2004, which is when I stopped buying slabs regularly, so the contrast between ye olde standards and the new standards is very stark to me).

 

Anyway, it is a conundrum what to do with these books, as I not only oppose pressing, but I think the grading standards that have been in effect since I stopped buying slabs are also appalling by themselves. I have no desire to press books nor to stick a 9.8 label on something that I believe to be a 9.6, or a 9.6 label on something I believe to be a 9.2 or 9.4. And yet, if I don't do something, I know I'm leaving money on the table as a seller (which is abhorrent to my capitalist instincts).

[Prince Namor]

I always disclose if a book I sell has been pressed or not (to my knowledge) as a courtesy and respect to the market place, and so that buyers can know if the fiber's have been compromised.

 

That's the reason we disclose, right?

 

Right?

 

You've heard otherwise several times in this thread. If a comic is manipulated using a machine to improve its appearance, then for some collectors the thrill of owning a book that survived decades in extraordinary shape is lost.

 

Rather than say 'using a machine', wouldn't it be better to say 'where the fiber's have been compromised'?

I would think that this would be more about what actually has happened to the comic as opposed to what method was used to get there....?

[namisgr]

That there's a machine-based method is the rub.

[revat]

I always disclose if a book I sell has been pressed or not (to my knowledge) as a courtesy and respect to the market place, and so that buyers can know if the fiber's have been compromised.

 

That's the reason we disclose, right?

 

Right?

 

You've heard otherwise several times in this thread. If a comic is manipulated using a machine to improve its appearance, then for some collectors the thrill of owning a book that survived decades in extraordinary shape is lost.

 

Rather than say 'using a machine', wouldn't it be better to say 'where the fiber's have been compromised'?

I would think that this would be more about what actually has happened to the comic as opposed to what method was used to get there....?

 

used steroids, or tested positive for elevated levels of testosterone?

[kimik]

Anyway, it is a conundrum what to do with these books, as I not only oppose pressing, but I think the grading standards that have been in effect since I stopped buying slabs are also appalling by themselves. I have no desire to press books nor to stick a 9.8 label on something that I believe to be a 9.6, or a 9.6 label on something I believe to be a 9.2 or 9.4. And yet, if I don't do something, I know I'm leaving money on the table as a seller (which is abhorrent to my capitalist instincts).

 

Just sell all of the significantly undervalued books to me for 2004 prices and I will be happy to take that stress over pressing off of your mind.

 

Seriously, though, this is why I press books that I even want to keep for myself - in the end someone else is going to do it so if/when I decide to sell a keeper I know that most of the value has already been squeezed out of it.

[Prince Namor]

That there's a man-made method using a machine is the rub.

 

Now I'm confused.

[Spiderphill]

This hobbies collectors are honestly so oblivious, it will be our demise. I don't know if the market was manipulated for UHG grade books or what in the beginning. How do you pay $xxxxxx.xx for a .2 grade bump from an INCONSISTENT grading company? If these insane prices werent being paid for books that look basically the same at 9.2/4/6 on any given day at CGC, we wouldn't be here fighting about pressing. Pressing wouldn't be the end all in making money hand over fist. Pressing would just be an option for those who want their books to present much nicer.

[bababooey]

So is this what disclosure of pressing looks like today?

 

1- Not pressed

2- Not pressed while I owned it

3- Assume all are pressed because:

... a) l have lost track/don't remember/lazy

... b) I may have pressed some or all but won't provide specifics

4- This book was pressed

 

I see three disclosure statements, a NO, a MAYBE and a YES.

 

#3 is a disclaimer

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gaz973]

Why confusing? At the source, it's because it's undetectable, whereas almost all other forms of restoration can be found.

 

And all other forms of restoration get the PLOD treatment. If CGC had decided to give the PLOD to pressed books, that would have cut that out real quick like. But, due to practical issues (having to speculate at times on detection) and business considerations, CGC embraced pressing instead of giving it the scarlet label treatment.

 

 

Look at the books in my sig--like most of my collection, they're old label. Even the #1 is old label--it just got reholdered at some point, original date of grading is 2000. So I guess if I sell them, I HAVE to press. Or just lose many thousands that other collectors who press have lined their pockets with and decreased the value of my grades by.

 

I sold off a good number of my slabs a number of years ago, but I still have more than 200 remaining. Almost all of them are old label books (and, yes, while pressing did exist back in those days, given that these books largely aren't squashed and have obvious pressable defects, I'd bet that very few were...excepting those purchased from one particular dealer who was an early adopter of pressing - not sure about those). I'd wager that most of the books could be straight re-subbed for a straight grade bump, given how far CGC's grading standards have fallen (my grading eye is stuck in 2004, which is when I stopped buying slabs regularly, so the contrast between ye olde standards and the new standards is very stark to me).

 

Anyway, it is a conundrum what to do with these books, as I not only oppose pressing, but I think the grading standards that have been in effect since I stopped buying slabs are also appalling by themselves. I have no desire to press books nor to stick a 9.8 label on something that I believe to be a 9.6, or a 9.6 label on something I believe to be a 9.2 or 9.4. And yet, if I don't do something, I know I'm leaving money on the table as a seller (which is abhorrent to my capitalist instincts).

I agree with your opinion of CGC grading standards, I think there are many books out there that get a grade bump because grading is just that much looser these days in many cases.

 

I faced the same decision when it came to putting my collection of slabs for sale which were composed of a high number of old labels and books that were likely to be unpressed. As much as I would've liked the money, to have had them pressed would've just made me feel like a hypocrite and so I sell them as is. I try to favour selling to collectors, particularly if I think they're unlikely to press but I have also sold directly to someone who is pretty much sure to press and make a good profit. It's a bit of a sting to know the money I'm leaving on the table but I can live with it when it's actually someone I like who is going to profit from it.

[mrmyst]

Ad

[mrmyst]

Nauseum.

[namisgr]

That there's a man-made method using a machine is the rub.

 

Now I'm confused.

 

For some, pressing takes out not only the small dents that don't break paper, but also the magic.