When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[The-Collector]

interesting read jimbo, when you don't steer into the "calling pressers swindlers" lane you put forth some thoughtful perspective.

 

In the same way, the press-for-profit people rely on the ignorance of their buyers regarding BOTH whether the books have been pressed AND how non-benign pressing truly is.

 

I think you can make your point that bad pressers and bad restorers are comparable to these quick flippers.

I would be willing to bet that every professional presser has performed pressings that resulted in a chip out of the edge, a lost corner, a popped staple, or a blown spine. I have seen many 4-5 figure GA books damaged by pressing. (Did you see the Captain America Comics 70 example I posted earlier?) I don't know who did the pressing, but I don't think they were home waffle iron jobs. I suppose a person of integrity could press a relatively common book like a Hulk 181, but to risk ripping, chipping, or popping a staple on a rare book like Catman 15 is unconscionable.

 

I dont think there's ignorance by the buyers (again you seem to think everyone is hiding when books have been pressed, whereas I see most everyone disclose)

Do you truly believe that? I don't know where you're buying your comics. I buy most of mine through the ComicLink Featured Auctions, the ComicConnect Event Auctions, and the Heritage Signature Auctions, and I've never seen pressing disclosed on any item in any one of those venues. I have seen books in all three that I know were pressed because I was able to locate scans of the books prior to pressing in the Heritage archives. One example is this MM59, 8.5 OW/W, which sold on Heritage last year:

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7066&lotNo=91148#Photo

 

The same book sold on ComicLink this year, slabbed as a 9.4 with white pages. There was no disclosure of pressing. Books do get grade bumps without pressing, but the bindery tear area at the bottom was flattened out, so it is fairly evident that it was pressed.

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch%5Fadv%2Easp%3Fall%3Dy%26TITLE%3DMarvel%2BMystery%2BCOmics%26TITLEOPT%3DALL%26ISSUE%3D59%26Condition%3D%26ConditionTo%3D%26CensusRank%3D%26SearchPageQuality%3D%26Pedigree%3D%26PRICEF%3D%26PRICET%3D%26DESCRIPTION%3D%26DESCRIPTIONOPT%3DALL%26SearchRemarks%3D%26SearchCGC%3D%26EXCLUDE%3D%26CATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26WCATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26SORT%3DCATEG%26%5Fwhere%5Fforsale%3Dy%26%5Fwhere%5Fauctions%3Dy%26x%3D22%26y%3D16%26where%5Fforsale%3Dy&id=964293

 

And I don't think there's consensus on whether pressing is benign or non-benign so you might be better served to qualify your comment as "potentially non-benign" or just the fact that we don't know what the long term effect of modern pressing techniques is on paper, so why risk it?

When I say non-benign, I'm not just talking paper quality degradation; I'm also talking the risk of damage. However, the truth of that last statement is reason enough for anyone who cares about preserving comic books to be against pressing.

 

 

Wow how did that book become a 9.4 with all those non improvable defects on the BC.

[Jeffro.]

That "aye, aye, aye, aye!" is the sound of the Crazy Train backing up to this thread.

[fantastic_four]

Can you give any evidence that pressing isn't benign?

 

I can give you the opinion of a professional conservator. Four years ago I asked a conservator at the Library of Congress whether or not heat pressing can cause long-term damage to paper. I also asked them whether or not there is a known method to detect heat pressing. This is the start of that thread that I posted when I first asked them the question:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3235271

 

And this is a jump to later in the thread when I posted the answer I got from the LoC conservator:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3295584#Post3295584

 

They suggested what's already obvious--heat accelerates the aging of paper. They added something that surprised me--conservators avoid doing it whenever possible. They also confirmed that while you can detect the presence of pressed-out damage under magnification, there's no way to know what caused it to become straightened back out, so the detection of pressing isn't yet possible.

[JAM_NYC]

If I travel to Africa, go deep into the jungle and find a huge rock, that everyday a 600 lb gorilla takes a nap on... And put my comics under there... Do I need to disclose that?

It'll play heck my profit margins, but just saying... It's not man-made and it's not a machine...

I would honestly pay a premium for comics that have been pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top, regardless of condition, just so I can say I own a comic that was pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top.

[The-Collector]

Can you give any evidence that pressing isn't benign?

 

I can give you the opinion of a professional conservator. Four years ago I asked a conservator at the Library of Congress whether or not heat pressing can cause long-term damage to paper. I also asked them whether or not there is a known method to detect heat pressing. This is the start of that thread that I posted when I first asked them the question:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3235271

 

And this is a jump to later in the thread when I posted the answer I got from the LoC conservator:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3295584#Post3295584

 

They suggested what's already obvious--heat accelerates the aging of paper. They added something that surprised me--conservators avoid doing it whenever possible. They also confirmed that while you can detect the presence of pressed-out damage under magnification, there's no way to know what caused it to become straightened back out, so the detection of pressing isn't yet possible.

 

Thank you.

 

I wonder if there have been any longitudinal studies. Or if that is just his professional opinion.

[fantastic_four]

If I travel to Africa, go deep into the jungle and find a huge rock, that everyday a 600 lb gorilla takes a nap on... And put my comics under there... Do I need to disclose that?

It'll play heck my profit margins, but just saying... It's not man-made and it's not a machine...

I would honestly pay a premium for comics that have been pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top, regardless of condition, just so I can say I own a comic that was pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top.

 

+2

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

That "aye, aye, aye, aye!" is the sound of the Crazy Train backing up to this thread.

 

When you're buying up books that you don't even want to save the human race from someone who might possibly press them, then I think we can safely assume that you're going off the rails.

[VintageComics]

Can you give any evidence that pressing isn't benign?

 

I can give you the opinion of a professional conservator. Four years ago I asked a conservator at the Library of Congress whether or not heat pressing can cause long-term damage to paper. I also asked them whether or not there is a known method to detect heat pressing. This is the start of that thread that I posted when I first asked them the question:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3235271

 

And this is a jump to later in the thread when I posted the answer I got from the LoC conservator:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3295584#Post3295584

 

They suggested what's already obvious--heat accelerates the aging of paper. They added something that surprised me--conservators avoid doing it whenever possible. They also confirmed that while you can detect the presence of pressed-out damage under magnification, there's no way to know what caused it to become straightened back out, so the detection of pressing isn't yet possible.

 

There are plenty of circumstances that a book is put under duress - and I would argue that unless the book is sitting in a perfect environment, untouched, in a dark closet / longox, that book is under constant duress - even if you're just moving it from one spot to another.

 

I agree that heat can accelerate the aging of paper but what I believe to be true (as once stated by Tracey Heft) is that a the constant change in temperature is more damaging than just one steady temperature (within reason). The original owner SA collection that we've been grading over the past year was stored in a hot, humid environment with little to no protection for nearly 60 years. The pages are white on 80+ percent of the books. Not a single Cream or just Off White in the lot. How is that possible? Very little fluctuation in climate.

 

There are many other circumstances that are tough on a book. When you are shipping a book and your box is sitting in a car in the summer and it's over 100 degrees inside, or in the back of a Fed Ex truck or in a warehouse, etc. the book is being exposed to similar conditions with no outrage. I've gotten boxes back from CGC from my Fed Ex guy and it's so warm I can feel the heat coming off the box.

 

I fully understand it if someone does not like pressing, I really do, but both sides (those that approve of and those that disprove of pressing) are going to have to have a realistic perspective on all of the fact for any progress or dialogue. Otherwise it's just a ping pong game of back and forth with no real progress.

[The-Collector]

Can you give any evidence that pressing isn't benign?

 

I can give you the opinion of a professional conservator. Four years ago I asked a conservator at the Library of Congress whether or not heat pressing can cause long-term damage to paper. I also asked them whether or not there is a known method to detect heat pressing. This is the start of that thread that I posted when I first asked them the question:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3235271

 

And this is a jump to later in the thread when I posted the answer I got from the LoC conservator:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3295584#Post3295584

 

They suggested what's already obvious--heat accelerates the aging of paper. They added something that surprised me--conservators avoid doing it whenever possible. They also confirmed that while you can detect the presence of pressed-out damage under magnification, there's no way to know what caused it to become straightened back out, so the detection of pressing isn't yet possible.

 

Thank you.

 

I wonder if there have been any longitudinal studies. Or if that is just his professional opinion.

 

whoops should have read the reply first.

[originalisbest]

interesting read jimbo, when you don't steer into the "calling pressers swindlers" lane you put forth some thoughtful perspective.

 

In the same way, the press-for-profit people rely on the ignorance of their buyers regarding BOTH whether the books have been pressed AND how non-benign pressing truly is.

 

I think you can make your point that bad pressers and bad restorers are comparable to these quick flippers.

I would be willing to bet that every professional presser has performed pressings that resulted in a chip out of the edge, a lost corner, a popped staple, or a blown spine. I have seen many 4-5 figure GA books damaged by pressing. (Did you see the Captain America Comics 70 example I posted earlier?) I don't know who did the pressing, but I don't think they were home waffle iron jobs. I suppose a person of integrity could press a relatively common book like a Hulk 181, but to risk ripping, chipping, or popping a staple on a rare book like Catman #15 is unconscionable.

 

I dont think there's ignorance by the buyers (again you seem to think everyone is hiding when books have been pressed, whereas I see most everyone disclose)

Do you truly believe that? I don't know where you're buying your comics. I buy most of mine through the ComicLink Featured Auctions, the ComicConnect Event Auctions, and the Heritage Signature Auctions, and I've never seen pressing disclosed on any item in any one of those venues. I have seen books in all three that I know were pressed because I was able to locate scans of the books prior to pressing in the Heritage archives. One example is this MM59, 8.5 OW/W, which sold on Heritage last year:

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7066&lotNo=91148#Photo

 

The same book sold on ComicLink this year, slabbed as a 9.4 with white pages. There was no disclosure of pressing. Books do get grade bumps without pressing, but the bindery tear area at the bottom was flattened out, so it is fairly evident that it was pressed.

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch%5Fadv%2Easp%3Fall%3Dy%26TITLE%3DMarvel%2BMystery%2BCOmics%26TITLEOPT%3DALL%26ISSUE%3D59%26Condition%3D%26ConditionTo%3D%26CensusRank%3D%26SearchPageQuality%3D%26Pedigree%3D%26PRICEF%3D%26PRICET%3D%26DESCRIPTION%3D%26DESCRIPTIONOPT%3DALL%26SearchRemarks%3D%26SearchCGC%3D%26EXCLUDE%3D%26CATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26WCATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26SORT%3DCATEG%26%5Fwhere%5Fforsale%3Dy%26%5Fwhere%5Fauctions%3Dy%26x%3D22%26y%3D16%26where%5Fforsale%3Dy&id=964293

 

And I don't think there's consensus on whether pressing is benign or non-benign so you might be better served to qualify your comment as "potentially non-benign" or just the fact that we don't know what the long term effect of modern pressing techniques is on paper, so why risk it?

When I say non-benign, I'm not just talking paper quality degradation; I'm also talking the risk of damage. However, the truth of that last statement is reason enough for anyone who cares about preserving comic books to be against pressing.

 

 

Sorry jimbo, but there's a risk of damage if you -- leave a book out in a sunny area/window/wall, lay it down on a table near an open drink, prop it up sans holder on a couch to snap a group pic, slide it in and out of a mylar, or perish forbid, read it. All unconscionable acts, indeed!

 

Pressing when well done ain't detectable and thus, for a variety of reasons -- yes, the butthurt over it stems from it being ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. There are of course a thousand shades of denial/acceptance over how much this is the case.

[originalisbest]

That "aye, aye, aye, aye!" is the sound of the Crazy Train backing up to this thread.

 

When you're buying up books that you don't even want to save the human race from someone who might possibly press them, then I think we can safely assume that you're going off the rails.

 

I think I'd just LOVE to beat poor Jimbo out for books in his wheelhouse -- he'd just cry, knowing what I'd do to them -- unobtrusively improve their aesthetic appearance for placement in a mylar in my collection.

[originalisbest]

Can you give any evidence that pressing isn't benign?

 

I can give you the opinion of a professional conservator. Four years ago I asked a conservator at the Library of Congress whether or not heat pressing can cause long-term damage to paper. I also asked them whether or not there is a known method to detect heat pressing. This is the start of that thread that I posted when I first asked them the question:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3235271

 

And this is a jump to later in the thread when I posted the answer I got from the LoC conservator:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=30&Number=3295584#Post3295584

 

They suggested what's already obvious--heat accelerates the aging of paper. They added something that surprised me--conservators avoid doing it whenever possible. They also confirmed that while you can detect the presence of pressed-out damage under magnification, there's no way to know what caused it to become straightened back out, so the detection of pressing isn't yet possible.

 

There are plenty of circumstances that a book is put under duress - and I would argue that unless the book is sitting in a perfect environment, untouched, in a dark closet / longox, that book is under constant duress - even if you're just moving it from one spot to another.

 

I agree that heat can accelerate the aging of paper but what I believe to be true (as once stated by Tracey Heft) is that a the constant change in temperature is more damaging than just one steady temperature (within reason). The original owner SA collection that we've been grading over the past year was stored in a hot, humid environment with little to no protection for nearly 60 years. The pages are white on 80+ percent of the books. Not a single Cream or just Off White in the lot. How is that possible? Very little fluctuation in climate.

 

There are many other circumstances that are tough on a book. When you are shipping a book and your box is sitting in a car in the summer and it's over 100 degrees inside, or in the back of a Fed Ex truck or in a warehouse, etc. the book is being exposed to similar conditions with no outrage. I've gotten boxes back from CGC from my Fed Ex guy and it's so warm I can feel the heat coming off the box.

 

I fully understand it if someone does not like pressing, I really do, but both sides (those that approve of and those that disprove of pressing) are going to have to have a realistic perspective on all of the fact for any progress or dialogue. Otherwise it's just a ping pong game of back and forth with no real progress.

 

While I agree with you Roy, I like a good game of ping pong. Table tennis. Whatever.

[fantastic_four]

Thank you.

 

I wonder if there have been any longitudinal studies. Or if that is just his professional opinion.

 

There are studies available on the LoC web site showing the effects of extreme heat on paper. I might have this slightly off because it has been close to a decade since I looked at those studies, but my memory is telling me they artificially test the effects of paper aging by baking paper in an oven at various high temperatures. My memory is also telling me this is how they came to recommend Mylar as being archivally safe half a century ago--they baked paper between sheets of various types of plastic and found that Mylar didn't become acidic as other plastics do. The test results I saw showed the results of baking paper in Mylar with all four sides closed, one side open, two sides open, three sides open, and all sides open. I think they had a formula that showed the amount of heat they applied, the length of time they applied it, and the approximate number of real-time years that should be an approximation of--I think they shot for artificial aging of a century in their testing, but that I could easily be wrong about, I don't remember that as clearly. I think they got their best results with two or more sides open, which is why Cole and Gerber sell open-topped 4-mil Mylar bags, and it's also why they offer versions of those same bags that have the sides open. Obviously any more than the top being open means you can't store comics upright in a box, so it's not a popular option for collecting comics.

[fantastic_four]

There are plenty of circumstances that a book is put under duress - and I would argue that unless the book is sitting in a perfect environment, untouched, in a dark closet / longox, that book is under constant duress - even if you're just moving it from one spot to another.

 

I agree that heat can accelerate the aging of paper but what I believe to be true (as once stated by Tracey Heft) is that a the constant change in temperature is more damaging than just one steady temperature (within reason). The original owner SA collection that we've been grading over the past year was stored in a hot, humid environment with little to no protection for nearly 60 years. The pages are white on 80+ percent of the books. Not a single Cream or just Off White in the lot. How is that possible? Very little fluctuation in climate.

 

There are many other circumstances that are tough on a book. When you are shipping a book and your box is sitting in a car in the summer and it's over 100 degrees inside, or in the back of a Fed Ex truck or in a warehouse, etc. the book is being exposed to similar conditions with no outrage. I've gotten boxes back from CGC from my Fed Ex guy and it's so warm I can feel the heat coming off the box.

 

I fully understand it if someone does not like pressing, I really do, but both sides (those that approve of and those that disprove of pressing) are going to have to have a realistic perspective on all of the fact for any progress or dialogue. Otherwise it's just a ping pong game of back and forth with no real progress.

 

Agreed, and yes, I've heard the same thing about constant temperature from Heft and others--maintaining a consistent temperature and humidity is more important than the specific temperature and humidity levels you're able to achieve. I can only put things into rough perspective--the temperature variations a comic is subjected to in a trip across the country in a shipping box accelerates aging a bit. Heat pressing accelerates aging a bit more simply because the temperature the book is subjected to is a bit higher. Neither causes measurable damage. I still think the best metaphor is that heat pressing probably causes roughly as much damage to a comic as a suntan does to the human skin.

[DiceX]

 

 

[jimbo_707]

interesting read jimbo, when you don't steer into the "calling pressers swindlers" lane you put forth some thoughtful perspective.

 

In the same way, the press-for-profit people rely on the ignorance of their buyers regarding BOTH whether the books have been pressed AND how non-benign pressing truly is.

 

I think you can make your point that bad pressers and bad restorers are comparable to these quick flippers.

I would be willing to bet that every professional presser has performed pressings that resulted in a chip out of the edge, a lost corner, a popped staple, or a blown spine. I have seen many 4-5 figure GA books damaged by pressing. (Did you see the Captain America Comics 70 example I posted earlier?) I don't know who did the pressing, but I don't think they were home waffle iron jobs. I suppose a person of integrity could press a relatively common book like a Hulk 181, but to risk ripping, chipping, or popping a staple on a rare book like Catman #15 is unconscionable.

 

I dont think there's ignorance by the buyers (again you seem to think everyone is hiding when books have been pressed, whereas I see most everyone disclose)

Do you truly believe that? I don't know where you're buying your comics. I buy most of mine through the ComicLink Featured Auctions, the ComicConnect Event Auctions, and the Heritage Signature Auctions, and I've never seen pressing disclosed on any item in any one of those venues. I have seen books in all three that I know were pressed because I was able to locate scans of the books prior to pressing in the Heritage archives. One example is this MM59, 8.5 OW/W, which sold on Heritage last year:

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7066&lotNo=91148#Photo

 

The same book sold on ComicLink this year, slabbed as a 9.4 with white pages. There was no disclosure of pressing. Books do get grade bumps without pressing, but the bindery tear area at the bottom was flattened out, so it is fairly evident that it was pressed.

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch%5Fadv%2Easp%3Fall%3Dy%26TITLE%3DMarvel%2BMystery%2BCOmics%26TITLEOPT%3DALL%26ISSUE%3D59%26Condition%3D%26ConditionTo%3D%26CensusRank%3D%26SearchPageQuality%3D%26Pedigree%3D%26PRICEF%3D%26PRICET%3D%26DESCRIPTION%3D%26DESCRIPTIONOPT%3DALL%26SearchRemarks%3D%26SearchCGC%3D%26EXCLUDE%3D%26CATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26WCATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26SORT%3DCATEG%26%5Fwhere%5Fforsale%3Dy%26%5Fwhere%5Fauctions%3Dy%26x%3D22%26y%3D16%26where%5Fforsale%3Dy&id=964293

 

And I don't think there's consensus on whether pressing is benign or non-benign so you might be better served to qualify your comment as "potentially non-benign" or just the fact that we don't know what the long term effect of modern pressing techniques is on paper, so why risk it?

When I say non-benign, I'm not just talking paper quality degradation; I'm also talking the risk of damage. However, the truth of that last statement is reason enough for anyone who cares about preserving comic books to be against pressing.

 

 

Sorry jimbo, but there's a risk of damage if you -- leave a book out in a sunny area/window/wall, lay it down on a table near an open drink, prop it up sans holder on a couch to snap a group pic, slide it in and out of a mylar, or perish forbid, read it. All unconscionable acts, indeed!

 

Pressing when well done ain't detectable and thus, for a variety of reasons -- yes, the butthurt over it stems from it being ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. There are of course a thousand shades of denial/acceptance over how much this is the case.

I would try to explain to you that some people care about things other than money, but something tells me it would be a waste of breath (figuratively speaking...perhaps I should say "a waste of keystrokes"). Judging from your posts, I would venture that you care about little besides money, your own image, and other narcissistic supply sources.

[originalisbest]

interesting read jimbo, when you don't steer into the "calling pressers swindlers" lane you put forth some thoughtful perspective.

 

In the same way, the press-for-profit people rely on the ignorance of their buyers regarding BOTH whether the books have been pressed AND how non-benign pressing truly is.

 

I think you can make your point that bad pressers and bad restorers are comparable to these quick flippers.

I would be willing to bet that every professional presser has performed pressings that resulted in a chip out of the edge, a lost corner, a popped staple, or a blown spine. I have seen many 4-5 figure GA books damaged by pressing. (Did you see the Captain America Comics 70 example I posted earlier?) I don't know who did the pressing, but I don't think they were home waffle iron jobs. I suppose a person of integrity could press a relatively common book like a Hulk 181, but to risk ripping, chipping, or popping a staple on a rare book like Catman #15 is unconscionable.

 

I dont think there's ignorance by the buyers (again you seem to think everyone is hiding when books have been pressed, whereas I see most everyone disclose)

Do you truly believe that? I don't know where you're buying your comics. I buy most of mine through the ComicLink Featured Auctions, the ComicConnect Event Auctions, and the Heritage Signature Auctions, and I've never seen pressing disclosed on any item in any one of those venues. I have seen books in all three that I know were pressed because I was able to locate scans of the books prior to pressing in the Heritage archives. One example is this MM59, 8.5 OW/W, which sold on Heritage last year:

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7066&lotNo=91148#Photo

 

The same book sold on ComicLink this year, slabbed as a 9.4 with white pages. There was no disclosure of pressing. Books do get grade bumps without pressing, but the bindery tear area at the bottom was flattened out, so it is fairly evident that it was pressed.

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch%5Fadv%2Easp%3Fall%3Dy%26TITLE%3DMarvel%2BMystery%2BCOmics%26TITLEOPT%3DALL%26ISSUE%3D59%26Condition%3D%26ConditionTo%3D%26CensusRank%3D%26SearchPageQuality%3D%26Pedigree%3D%26PRICEF%3D%26PRICET%3D%26DESCRIPTION%3D%26DESCRIPTIONOPT%3DALL%26SearchRemarks%3D%26SearchCGC%3D%26EXCLUDE%3D%26CATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26WCATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26SORT%3DCATEG%26%5Fwhere%5Fforsale%3Dy%26%5Fwhere%5Fauctions%3Dy%26x%3D22%26y%3D16%26where%5Fforsale%3Dy&id=964293

 

And I don't think there's consensus on whether pressing is benign or non-benign so you might be better served to qualify your comment as "potentially non-benign" or just the fact that we don't know what the long term effect of modern pressing techniques is on paper, so why risk it?

When I say non-benign, I'm not just talking paper quality degradation; I'm also talking the risk of damage. However, the truth of that last statement is reason enough for anyone who cares about preserving comic books to be against pressing.

 

 

Sorry jimbo, but there's a risk of damage if you -- leave a book out in a sunny area/window/wall, lay it down on a table near an open drink, prop it up sans holder on a couch to snap a group pic, slide it in and out of a mylar, or perish forbid, read it. All unconscionable acts, indeed!

 

Pressing when well done ain't detectable and thus, for a variety of reasons -- yes, the butthurt over it stems from it being ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. There are of course a thousand shades of denial/acceptance over how much this is the case.

I would try to explain to you that some people care about things other than money, but something tells me it would be a waste of breath (figuratively speaking...perhaps I should say "a waste of keystrokes"). Judging from your posts, I would venture that you care about little besides money, your own image, and other narcissistic supply sources.

 

! I could try and explain to you just WHY it's ultimately "the money" you care about (and we'd have to define money simply as a way of "keeping score" here, but sadly the same can be said of you, I sense you're too blindered to make the attempt to grasp it.) I'll just have to remain content in my narcissistic little world. Pardon me while I go press some books, take advantage of little old ladies and, well goodness, any number of other nefarious deeds. I'll try and add to my bag o' tricks.

[ComicConnoisseur]

If I travel to Africa, go deep into the jungle and find a huge rock, that everyday a 600 lb gorilla takes a nap on... And put my comics under there... Do I need to disclose that?

It'll play heck my profit margins, but just saying... It's not man-made and it's not a machine...

I would honestly pay a premium for comics that have been pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top, regardless of condition, just so I can say I own a comic that was pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top.

Three things.

1.When I buy my CGC comic books I always assumed they are pressed. It takes away the sting that somebody made a good profit on it.

2. These pressed comic books will outlive most of us, so I don`t worry about how long they will last. It's kind of like worrying about the earth. The earth will still be here in 60 years, but most of us won`t

3. I wonder if anybody will really care in 5 to 10 years about this stuff everybody heatedly debated over with digital comics becoming the number one way to read comic books?

It reminds me of a story of an elderly friend of mine who put years of his life into collecting stamps. He had a great passion for stamps,eventually he died and left them to his children. The children didn`t want them, so they sold them for pennies on the dollar. They even lambasted that they had wished their dad left them a car or something they could use in real life instead of the stamp collection. Kind of sad in away.

[originalisbest]

Now jimbo aside (and heck, I really don't have time for this, but I guess it is my lunch hour) I start from the point that a proper pressing job doesn't damage a book. Rather, if anything it is a process which benefits a book. Maybe ff can link yet again to the discussion over whether paper fibers became more, not less supple, etc. after a careful pressing treatment. Or you can take Roy's point of view that it's benign, for properly levels of humidity and pressure can nicely flatten out any given book. All the bottom ones from the milehigh stacks were so pressed. But that is the basis I'm operating from -- it doesn't harm a book.

 

The notion that a staple could pop, a chip come off? That can happen with anything, Francis, pressing included. I have had a chipped corner that must have been hanging on by a thread come off within the CGC well on a mid-grade book -- this is called "stuff happens."

 

As to money and why it ultimately boils down to that. Some people have the notion that to find a virginal, scarce book is a great thing, such that they wouldn't dare even breathe on it. Bully for them, if it's their book. If it's mine, and has a ripple and a NCB bend that can be improved upon, I'm probably going to have it professionally pressed.

 

This seems to annoy some purists to no end. Perhaps because they're worried the book might get damaged, but that seems a white knight dodge - there's any number of ways a book might be accidentally damaged, even when held close to their loving breast. I think it closer to the truth that one of two things has occured -- perhaps they have what used to be a slightly superior copy, now they find the pressed book has been elevated to the level of theirs. Theirs is now a little less scarce, the supply has increased; if demand has remained static -- their copy might now be worth less money/less coolness/less uniqueness in the eyes of their geeksquad buddies.

 

Or perhaps they had their eyes on this pre-pressed copy, while it was merely a VG+. Now it's a nicer-looking F+, in the eyes of CGC and many, and would cost them more to obtain. Well, rats. Guess you shoulda got there first, then you could have done as you liked with the book. But really, what's the problem here? If pressing damages a book and is somehow so easy for you to detect, then you can always differentiate between pressed and not pressed, and continue to look for a virginal unpressed one -- oh wait, you say you can't tell the difference, and are then dependent upon a personal knowledge of the book's entire history since day 1 of its existence? Well gosh - sorry about that. Be happy, eternally grateful then, for tools like the Heritage archives, which do allow you to see a particular book's changing appearance, if it happens to be one they've sold in the past. If it's not in the database and you've not known the owner of the book since January of '42, you're left to your own devices.

 

What has happened, when the newly and properly pressed book enters the marketplace, is there has been a slight increase in the population of nicer-looking books, and it has either made your one existing highgrade copy less unique (and thus perhaps, with demand a constant, less valuable should you wish to sell (or just "less special", if money really doesn't matter, because your buddy now owns a copy with the same grade on the label as yours, and you can't tell whether pressed or not unless they confide that in you)) or, it has taken one lower grade one and bumped it up to a higher grade, thus making it more expensive to compete with other collectors to add that copy to your collection. And now you have to go searching again for one that'll better fit your budget.

 

I find pressing to be a boon, not a detriment at all. With enough searching for a given book, you might find a pressable candidate that can be had for a relative bargain, that can be improved in appearance and thus value, and added to your collection. While it kinda sucks for the demand and "specialness" of the one highgrade copy you happen to have, if all of a sudden two more pop up in a similar grade after careful pressing, perhaps it's really, really cool to me, another collector, because I get to finally add one of those two highgrade gems to my collection; there's a little more comic wealth to go around for everyone. It's probably a commie plot, I admit. Are you a red dupe?

 

All high and mighty protestations aside, the above is why it boils down to money, IMO. With rare exceptions, everyone has just so much of it at any given time, and probably tries to stretch it as far as they can in pursuit of the best-looking books they can uncover. The thought that all "virginal" highgrade comics are going to be rendered common by way of a flood of pressed books is laughable. You can press anything you like, but a VG won't magically become a 9.4. Probably the rarified few highgrade books will, at most, have just a couple added to their ranks - hardly a flood.

 

One last question, if I find an original-owner book in the middle of a stack with a folded-under cover corner, am I allowed to bend it back to the proper position and put it in a mylar? Or am I crook for doing so? Sure wouldn't want to offend anyone. You can resume the butthurt if you're so inclined.

[originalisbest]

If I travel to Africa, go deep into the jungle and find a huge rock, that everyday a 600 lb gorilla takes a nap on... And put my comics under there... Do I need to disclose that?

It'll play heck my profit margins, but just saying... It's not man-made and it's not a machine...

I would honestly pay a premium for comics that have been pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top, regardless of condition, just so I can say I own a comic that was pressed by a giant rock with a sleeping gorilla on top.

Three things.

1.When I buy my CGC comic books I always assumed they are pressed. It takes away the sting that somebody made a good profit on it.

2. These pressed comic books will outlive most of us, so I don`t worry about how long they will last. It's kind of like worrying about the earth. The earth will still be here in 60 years, but most of us won`t

3. I wonder if anybody will really care in 5 to 10 years about this stuff everybody heatedly debated over with digital comics becoming the number one way to read comic books?

It reminds me of a story of an elderly friend of mine who put years of his life into collecting stamps. He had a great passion for stamps,eventually he died and left them to his children. The children didn`t want them, so they sold them for pennies on the dollar. They even lambasted that they had wished their dad left them a car or something they could use in real life instead of the stamp collection. Kind of sad in away.

 

Had they been valuable stamps, he should have sensed the utter lack of interest on their part, and sold them within his lifetime, or given them better instructions for dispersal. Sounds like a bunch of greedy, no-good kids to me.