When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[DamageInc-migration]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

Ah, so now you understand where I'm coming from. Awesome (thumbs u

[originalisbest]

Now jimbo aside (and heck, I really don't have time for this, but I guess it is my lunch hour) I start from the point that a proper pressing job doesn't damage a book. Rather, if anything it is a process which benefits a book. Maybe ff can link yet again to the discussion over whether paper fibers became more, not less supple, etc. after a careful pressing treatment. Or you can take Roy's point of view that it's benign, for properly levels of humidity and pressure can nicely flatten out any given book. All the bottom ones from the milehigh stacks were so pressed. But that is the basis I'm operating from -- it doesn't harm a book.

 

The notion that a staple could pop, a chip come off? That can happen with anything, Francis, pressing included. I have had a chipped corner that must have been hanging on by a thread come off within the CGC well on a mid-grade book -- this is called "stuff happens."

 

As to money and why it ultimately boils down to that. Some people have the notion that to find a virginal, scarce book is a great thing, such that they wouldn't dare even breathe on it. Bully for them, if it's their book. If it's mine, and has a ripple and a NCB bend that can be improved upon, I'm probably going to have it professionally pressed.

 

This seems to annoy some purists to no end. Perhaps because they're worried the book might get damaged, but that seems a white knight dodge - there's any number of ways a book might be accidentally damaged, even when held close to their loving breast. I think it closer to the truth that one of two things has occured -- perhaps they have what used to be a slightly superior copy, now they find the pressed book has been elevated to the level of theirs. Theirs is now a little less scarce, the supply has increased; if demand has remained static -- their copy might now be worth less money/less coolness/less uniqueness in the eyes of their geeksquad buddies.

 

Or perhaps they had their eyes on this pre-pressed copy, while it was merely a VG+. Now it's a nicer-looking F+, in the eyes of CGC and many, and would cost them more to obtain. Well, rats. Guess you shoulda got there first, then you could have done as you liked with the book. But really, what's the problem here? If pressing damages a book and is somehow so easy for you to detect, then you can always differentiate between pressed and not pressed, and continue to look for a virginal unpressed one -- oh wait, you say you can't tell the difference, and are then dependent upon a personal knowledge of the book's entire history since day 1 of its existence? Well gosh - sorry about that. Be happy, eternally grateful then, for tools like the Heritage archives, which do allow you to see a particular book's changing appearance, if it happens to be one they've sold in the past. If it's not in the database and you've not known the owner of the book since January of '42, you're left to your own devices.

 

What has happened, when the newly and properly pressed book enters the marketplace, is there has been a slight increase in the population of nicer-looking books, and it has either made your one existing highgrade copy less unique (and thus perhaps, with demand a constant, less valuable should you wish to sell (or just "less special", if money really doesn't matter, because your buddy now owns a copy with the same grade on the label as yours, and you can't tell whether pressed or not unless they confide that in you)) or, it has taken one lower grade one and bumped it up to a higher grade, thus making it more expensive to compete with other collectors to add that copy to your collection. And now you have to go searching again for one that'll better fit your budget.

 

I find pressing to be a boon, not a detriment at all. With enough searching for a given book, you might find a pressable candidate that can be had for a relative bargain, that can be improved in appearance and thus value, and added to your collection. While it kinda sucks for the demand and "specialness" of the one highgrade copy you happen to have, if all of a sudden two more pop up in a similar grade after careful pressing, perhaps it's really, really cool to me, another collector, because I get to finally add one of those two highgrade gems to my collection; there's a little more comic wealth to go around for everyone. It's probably a commie plot, I admit. Are you a red dupe?

 

All high and mighty protestations aside, the above is why it boils down to money, IMO. With rare exceptions, everyone has just so much of it at any given time, and probably tries to stretch it as far as they can in pursuit of the best-looking books they can uncover. The thought that all "virginal" highgrade comics are going to be rendered common by way of a flood of pressed books is laughable. You can press anything you like, but a VG won't magically become a 9.4. Probably the rarified few highgrade books will, at most, have just a couple added to their ranks - hardly a flood.

 

One last question, if I find an original-owner book in the middle of a stack with a folded-under cover corner, am I allowed to bend it back to the proper position and put it in a mylar? Or am I crook for doing so? Sure wouldn't want to offend anyone. You can resume the butthurt if you're so inclined.

 

Instead of listening to what some of us are saying...Gene, Garry and myself amongst others...why do you feel the need to tell us what we really think?

 

You can't believe our motivations because they aren't yours?

 

I'm not trying to tell you what you really think, I'm trying to say what I think you may be thinking/motivated by, in an attempt to show you the basis of my thinking.

 

I think.

Not sure why you're trying to say what you think we may be thinking/motivated by, I already know and understand my motivations and shared some of them earlier. You may not believe me or others but you don't change anything by projecting the basis of your thinking onto us.

 

To me and others, it really isn't "all about the money" whether you can understand and believe it or not. I feel like a broken record by repeating it again but feel compelled to when someone asserts that it must be everyone's motivation. I'm not saying that it is never a factor but it is far from the main factor in my aversion to pressing. No amount of sarcastic responses will change this.

 

Again, it's too bad that you don't see my explaining my thought process as anything but that; I wouldn't dare to imagine I could surmise what most anti-pressers REALLY think. Sheesh. On the whole topic of "projection" - pot, kettle, black in a majority of instances.

Strange, in your quoted post you said " I'm trying to say what I think you may be thinking/motivated by" and now you say "I wouldn't dare to imagine I could surmise what most anti-pressers REALLY think."

 

Perhaps now you can see my confusion about just exactly what you are trying to say?

 

Will have to beg your forgiveness on this one, as it was an 18-hour workday for me yesterday. What I was trying to get at in my quoted post, was think through the basis of thought for what I tend to think motivates some (not all, I suppose some can be 100% altruistic or certainly think of themselves as such) antipressers. I don't think I would go so far as to say I know how all or some or any of them truly think, I just was trying to hash out my ideers.

 

Anyhoo, one reason I say it's all about the money, on some level, is people like Jimbo crying it's not; but then their many complaints seem to stem from/about activities that are designed to make people money (pressing, flipping, etc.) As was pointed out, it's ironic that he would feel so protective of his books against something as awful as making $, when that is the very reason for their existence.

 

It would be nice if I could turn back the clock to a time where I could snap up an action 1 for the princely sum of $30 (remember that '60s Supe cover reference?) But Ernie Gerber in his guides took great pains to explain how rising prices and demand are what brings out supply, makes people motivated to find and rescue old books from dustbins. If not for the rancid moneygrubbers, there would be far less books to collect overall, and a much less vibrant hobby.

[originalisbest]

 

Pictures being your forte is fortunate. Saves on all that there 'spellin. I know, it's OK. Words give me a headache too!

 

Would you like another pat on the head, little fella?

[ComicConnoisseur]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

 

 

I always find people who claim they are pacifists to be the most angry.

I had an interesting experience about a month ago with a 45 something year old passive aggressive hippie.

My 70 year old mother calls me up to tell me this strange man has been coming in her yard with a pit bull the last few days, and brings the pit bull close to her cat. She was alone in this time period because my sister and brother in law were down in Florida.

So she calls me, and I get into my CC mobile to drive over there. Sure enough this dude was bringing the pit bull close to the cats face. He got shocked when I pulled up to him, and said what are you doing on my property?

He said nothing, then I said in a peaceful manner "well I appreciate it if you don`t come on the property again." He then went into a tirade about what a pacifist he was, and he meant no harm. I said that`s all well and good, but don`t come on the property again. He then started to say I could lose my teeth for saying something like that. He must have thought I was really short or something by the way I sat in the car. That`s when I took a risk, as he had the big pit bull with him. I get out of the car, and tower over this short guy with my average height.His face turned white. I then said if I ever see you on this property again I will call the police as I reached for my cell phone. He then left and continued to swear about what a peaceful pacifist he was.

 

[originalisbest]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

 

 

 

[originalisbest]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

 

 

I always find people who claim they are pacifists to be the most angry.

I had an interesting experience about a month ago with a 45 something year old passive aggressive hippie.

My 70 year old mother calls me up to tell me this strange man has been coming in her yard with a pit bull the last few days, and brings the pit bull close to her cat. She was alone in this time period because my sister and brother in law were done in Florida.

So she calls me, and I get into my CC mobile to drive over there. Sure enough this dude was bringing the pit bull close to the cats face. He got shocked when I pulled up to him, and said what are you doing on my property?

He said nothing, then I said in a peaceful manner" well I appreciate it if you don`t come on the property again." He then went into a tirade about what a pacifist he was, and he meant no harm. I said that`s all well and good, but don`t come on the property again. He then started to say I could lose my teeth for saying something like that. He must have thought I was really short or something by the way I sat in the car. That`s when I took a risk, as he had the big pit bull with him. I get out of the car, and tower over this short guy with my average height.His face turned white. I then said if I ever see you on this property again I will call the police as I reached for my cell phone. He then left and continued to swear about what a peaceful pacifist he was.

 

I'm pretty sure what you had there was a nut, rather than a bonafide pacifist.

 

In all seriousness, be careful about confronting someone who has a potentially agressive/dangerous dog with them. Glad nothing weirder happened.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

 

 

I always find people who claim they are pacifists to be the most angry.

I had an interesting experience about a month ago with a 45 something year old passive aggressive hippie.

My 70 year old mother calls me up to tell me this strange man has been coming in her yard with a pit bull the last few days, and brings the pit bull close to her cat. She was alone in this time period because my sister and brother in law were done in Florida.

So she calls me, and I get into my CC mobile to drive over there. Sure enough this dude was bringing the pit bull close to the cats face. He got shocked when I pulled up to him, and said what are you doing on my property?

He said nothing, then I said in a peaceful manner" well I appreciate it if you don`t come on the property again." He then went into a tirade about what a pacifist he was, and he meant no harm. I said that`s all well and good, but don`t come on the property again. He then started to say I could lose my teeth for saying something like that. He must have thought I was really short or something by the way I sat in the car. That`s when I took a risk, as he had the big pit bull with him. I get out of the car, and tower over this short guy with my average height.His face turned white. I then said if I ever see you on this property again I will call the police as I reached for my cell phone. He then left and continued to swear about what a peaceful pacifist he was.

 

I'm pretty sure what you had there was a nut, rather than a bonafide pacifist.

 

In all seriousness, be careful about confronting someone who has a potentially agressive/dangerous dog with them. Glad nothing weirder happened.

Yep I agree, as that dog looked big, but one someone is scaring your mother you throw logic out the window as the adrenaline takes over.

Good news is he never came back, and my 400 pound brother in law is back to patrol that property.

[VintageComics]

Saying that we need to simply understand the other side is not being a pacifist. It's the only option for moving a discussion forward.

 

As long as people are being called swindlers and dirtbags in a discussion (or the writer believes they are even if they don't say it) there won't be any forward progress in a discussion.

 

End of.

[Jeffro.]

I'm pretty sure what you had there was a nut, rather than a bonafide pacifist.

 

He'd fit right in here.

[comix4fun]

Saying that we need to simply understand the other side is not being a pacifist. It's the only option for moving a discussion forward.

 

As long as people are being called swindlers and dirtbags in a discussion (or the writer believes they are even if they don't say it) there won't be any forward progress in a discussion.

 

End of.

 

 

I am totally hugging you when I see you this weekend.

[Jeffro.]

Saying that we need to simply understand the other side is not being a pacifist. It's the only option for moving a discussion forward.

 

As long as people are being called swindlers and dirtbags in a discussion (or the writer believes they are even if they don't say it) there won't be any forward progress in a discussion.

 

End of.

 

 

I am totally hugging you when I see you this weekend.

 

Bring a lint brush to take care of the hair

[DiceX]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

 

 

I always find people who claim they are pacifists to be the most angry.

I had an interesting experience about a month ago with a 45 something year old passive aggressive hippie.

My 70 year old mother calls me up to tell me this strange man has been coming in her yard with a pit bull the last few days, and brings the pit bull close to her cat. She was alone in this time period because my sister and brother in law were down in Florida.

So she calls me, and I get into my CC mobile to drive over there. Sure enough this dude was bringing the pit bull close to the cats face. He got shocked when I pulled up to him, and said what are you doing on my property?

He said nothing, then I said in a peaceful manner "well I appreciate it if you don`t come on the property again." He then went into a tirade about what a pacifist he was, and he meant no harm. I said that`s all well and good, but don`t come on the property again. He then started to say I could lose my teeth for saying something like that. He must have thought I was really short or something by the way I sat in the car. That`s when I took a risk, as he had the big pit bull with him. I get out of the car, and tower over this short guy with my average height.His face turned white. I then said if I ever see you on this property again I will call the police as I reached for my cell phone. He then left and continued to swear about what a peaceful pacifist he was.

 

Was he wearing a purple suit?

 

 

[Davenport]

Just a general suggestion for this thread:

For some much needed perspective on condition-expectations read "Why Is Grading So Important?" in the 1st Ed. Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide (1992).

 

Establishes what comics are: "Comic books are fundamentally a mechanical device. That is, comic books ,as with all books, are intended to move.". Then goes through the history of materials used, production, distribution, product display, and mishandling by buyers.

 

In a way (imho) the article lays out a very stark contrast to today's pressing phenomenon, with comics undergoing specialized treatment to appear more coin-like, pristine. As if comic books aren't books, moved very little post-production or, ideally, appear to have never moved at all.

 

[revat]

I think many collectors would ideally like their comics be exactly as were when they bought them off of the shelf, whether that was in 1999, 1956, or 1939, or as close to possible as it can be (which can mean high grade, but not necessarily).

 

One good (maybe great argument) against pressing, is that when all of these comics were bought, they were not pressed. So to do so is removing it even farther from its 'natural state', even if the appearance is improved. We've all seen stores and newsstands with imperfect comics on the shelves, even bought some. But especially for old books, there is definitely some magic to looking at one today, and thinking "Maybe this is in exactly the same condition (even if its not as high) as the day it was bought in 1951." With the widespread pressing, most of those people are instead left KNOWING that its not the same, and to those people, some (if not all) of the appeal is gone. And to these people, it may be difficult to see why someone would want to 'ruin' a comic, by removing it farther from its original state, the one so many have tried so hard to preserve.

 

But on the other hand, many pressers feel like they are doing the same thing, helping something get back to its more natural state, and the reason you can't always detect good pressing is because the things that happen to a comic in pressing can occur in nature for the most part. Pack your books tightly, put a weight on them, and leave them in a dark warehouse in Thailand for 10 years and you might get the same result. So if I speed up the process, what's the harm? The book looks better, and as many collectors do, I'd prefer something good looking. If I had an antique watch and I had a special cleaner, I might polish it. Yes it should be done with specialized materials with great care by a trained professional, otherwise an accident may happen and value could be lost. But that wouldn't ruin the value if done properly, so why not with my comics.

[Green]

 

One good (maybe great argument) against pressing, is that when all of these comics were bought, they were not pressed.

 

FALSE! All books are pressed during manufacturing.

[delekkerste]

One good (maybe great argument) against pressing, is that when all of these comics were bought, they were not pressed. So to do so is removing it even farther from its 'natural state', even if the appearance is improved. We've all seen stores and newsstands with imperfect comics on the shelves, even bought some. But especially for old books, there is definitely some magic to looking at one today, and thinking "Maybe this is in exactly the same condition (even if its not as high) as the day it was bought in 1951." With the widespread pressing, most of those people are instead left KNOWING that its not the same, and to those people, some (if not all) of the appeal is gone. And to these people, it may be difficult to see why someone would want to 'ruin' a comic, by removing it farther from its original state, the one so many have tried so hard to preserve.

 

I agree with this. Your counter-argument...not so much.

[Davenport]

One good (maybe great argument) against pressing, is that when all of these comics were bought, they were not pressed. So to do so is removing it even farther from its 'natural state', even if the appearance is improved. We've all seen stores and newsstands with imperfect comics on the shelves, even bought some. But especially for old books, there is definitely some magic to looking at one today, and thinking "Maybe this is in exactly the same condition (even if its not as high) as the day it was bought in 1951." With the widespread pressing, most of those people are instead left KNOWING that its not the same, and to those people, some (if not all) of the appeal is gone. And to these people, it may be difficult to see why someone would want to 'ruin' a comic, by removing it farther from its original state, the one so many have tried so hard to preserve.

 

I agree with this. Your counter-argument...not so much.

It's the argument that gets ridiculed and dismissed as 'purist', but it's based in reality. A comic book is a book, and a book is a production assembly. Post production re-trimming, re-pressing or re-stapling alter what was "factory". Not much way around that fact.

A modern assembly of vintage parts may appear identical to a vintage production assembly, but it ain't. Big numbers and certification labeling can help enhance the illusion, but it's still an illusion.

[fantastic_four]

A modern assembly of vintage parts may appear identical to a vintage production assembly, but it ain't. Big numbers and certification labeling can help enhance the illusion, but it's still an illusion.

 

Illusions that can't be distinguished from the real thing aren't illusions.

[Davenport]

A modern assembly of vintage parts may appear identical to a vintage production assembly, but it ain't. Big numbers and certification labeling can help enhance the illusion, but it's still an illusion.

 

Illusions that can't be distinguished from the real thing aren't illusions.

Of course they are.

 

What is is. A trick is only a trick if it fools you. And this thread wouldn't exist if everyone was taken in, would it?

 

Mined diamond and Lab diamonds are virtually indistinguishable, but some folks still value the wonder of unimaginable periods of time and natural processes over the modern controlled-environment laboratory creations. Some folks, not all. But being indistinguishable doesn't alter the facts of their existence.

[fantastic_four]

A modern assembly of vintage parts may appear identical to a vintage production assembly, but it ain't. Big numbers and certification labeling can help enhance the illusion, but it's still an illusion.

 

Illusions that can't be distinguished from the real thing aren't illusions.

Of course they are.

 

What is is. A trick is only a trick if it fools you. And this thread wouldn't exist if everyone was taken in, would it?

 

This thread has gone off the deep end and needs someone to meme-bomb it into oblivion.