Valiant..Its About Damn Time!

[jgallo]

Because it becomes hard to keep track of what is what. I don't know the artists so listing a book by the artist doesn't help me. I also don't know what is a regular variant and what is some super special rare book. I would have collected them all same as I did the first time around but they lost me and my cash with all this extra stuff. Do books really need 2nd 3rd and more printings when they aren't even a year old and they have trades as well.

 

It was just a complete turn off to me and I get whatever cover my supplier puts in my box I have no idea if they are the base cover or not.

 

James G

[Katchoo]

Ah ok, I thought you meant the variants put you off reading the series', not put you off collecting them all.

[kimik]

While the relaunch started out with promise, I am starting to lose interest and will be dropping a couple more titles this month. They are starting to hit the wall with character and storyline development just like most books do - creative teams can plan a great year long arc, but after that it becomes more difficult to maintain the momentum.

 

The one I figured I would keep to the end is X-O (just like with the first go round), but unless they start to develop the character further than just a simple-minded savage with a suit then I will drop it as well.

[VEI Reborn]

Because it becomes hard to keep track of what is what. I don't know the artists so listing a book by the artist doesn't help me. I also don't know what is a regular variant and what is some super special rare book. I would have collected them all same as I did the first time around but they lost me and my cash with all this extra stuff. Do books really need 2nd 3rd and more printings when they aren't even a year old and they have trades as well.

 

It was just a complete turn off to me and I get whatever cover my supplier puts in my box I have no idea if they are the base cover or not.

 

James G

 

 

Interesting. Did you not know they say 2nd print on the cover [sometimes] and/or Variant cover in the upc label [every time]? Very easy to tell them a part that way.

 

 

You can also head to the Valiant forum as Greg does an awesome job listing what each cover is here...

 

http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/library.asp

[valiantman]

Come on Greg back me up here!

[rjrjr]

I was on the valiant boat but the number of alternate covers and second prints made me abandon ship quickly. I now wait for the trades in the bargin bin, great stories but I'm not going to collect them.

 

 

I was very vocal in the beginning about the variants. A year later, I don't care any more. I've since dropped all the titles as Valiant redux hasn't really panned out to be anything more than yet another superhero universe with slow paced stories. They might as well be part of the MU or DCU since the tone, art, etc. are the same. There is nothing here to set Valiant apart from what is already being done by the big two.

 

This new Valiant has definitely not captured the spirit and originality of the original Valiant. No house style. No titles taking place in alternate eras. No compelling fast paced stories. It just goes to show you there is no going back.

[sleepindeath]

Well I for one have enjoyed the new valiant. Shadowman & The Harbinger are my fav's so far.

[bffnut]

I read all of the to start, but I dropped Shadowman and am about to drop Harbinger. I was going to drop Bloodshot but I will give it a try once Cristos Gage takes over.

 

Archer and Armstrong is one of my favorite books, regardless of publisher.

[Buzzetta]

Guy in the LCS saw me picking up my books (I go down about once a month and overheard the owner remarking as such) and asked me what I would recommend since he saw I don't pick much up.

 

Shadowman...

 

 

As far as the variants. I find one first print copy of every book whenever I go pick my stuff up. If it is a variant... I have to be honest, I have not noticed. There have been a couple of times where I saw a cover on the shelf that I did not receive that I thought was interesting enough for me to pick up based upon the cover alone even though I already had a copy.

 

[awakeintheashes]

Was talking with my LCS today who more or less said that they've slept on Valiant for too long and will be pushing their books pretty heavily moving forward.

 

I'm sure the fact that Unity will be fully returnable doesn't hurt either.

[VEI Reborn]

Was talking with my LCS today who more or less said that they've slept on Valiant for too long and will be pushing their books pretty heavily moving forward.

 

I'm sure the fact that Unity will be fully returnable doesn't hurt either.

 

 

Im telling you gents.....lighting in the bottle can strike twice.

 

[carter3175]

I was on the valiant boat but the number of alternate covers and second prints made me abandon ship quickly. I now wait for the trades in the bargin bin, great stories but I'm not going to collect them.

 

 

I was very vocal in the beginning about the variants. A year later, I don't care any more. I've since dropped all the titles as Valiant redux hasn't really panned out to be anything more than yet another superhero universe with slow paced stories. They might as well be part of the MU or DCU since the tone, art, etc. are the same. There is nothing here to set Valiant apart from what is already being done by the big two.

 

This new Valiant has definitely not captured the spirit and originality of the original Valiant. No house style. No titles taking place in alternate eras. No compelling fast paced stories. It just goes to show you there is no going back.

 

Share with us what YOU would do. What would you like to see? Please be specific.

[Bosco685]

Was talking with my LCS today who more or less said that they've slept on Valiant for too long and will be pushing their books pretty heavily moving forward.

 

I'm sure the fact that Unity will be fully returnable doesn't hurt either.

 

 

Im telling you gents.....lighting in the bottle can strike twice.

 

A little lightning in the bottle helps a bit too.

 

 

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Because it becomes hard to keep track of what is what. I don't know the artists so listing a book by the artist doesn't help me. I also don't know what is a regular variant and what is some super special rare book. I would have collected them all same as I did the first time around but they lost me and my cash with all this extra stuff. Do books really need 2nd 3rd and more printings when they aren't even a year old and they have trades as well.

 

It was just a complete turn off to me and I get whatever cover my supplier puts in my box I have no idea if they are the base cover or not.

 

James G

 

 

Interesting. Did you not know they say 2nd print on the cover [sometimes] and/or Variant cover in the upc label [every time]? Very easy to tell them a part that way.

 

 

You can also head to the Valiant forum as Greg does an awesome job listing what each cover is here...

 

http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/library.asp

 

If the story is all they are trying to get to the consumer, why create variants at all?

The variants are a way to coax a "collector" into buying a second copy of the same comic. The collectors are saying "hey guys! this is too much" and the response they get back is... "just buy reading copies". First, collectors take pride in owning a complete set, not half of a set. Collectors take pride in owning the best or most desired copy from a set. If I offered anyone a gold ring, a silver ring, or a plastic ring for free... which is are they going to want? They are going to want the best. They are going to grab the gold. They are going to want the one with the most value. The way variants are distributed, you have to jump through hoops to get the rarest version and usually pay a premium. Regardless of how you look at it, the variants are trying to manipulate the collector and play off of their greed. It's like tying a carrot to a string to get a horse to walk.

 

 

I consider it to be a little insulting and disrespectful to the most loyal customers they could ever have.

 

DG

[valiantman]

Valiant is 1% of the market in a world where every publisher prints as many covers as they can get away with... it's a tool being used by their competitors and they've essentially taken that tool out of their own bag.

 

When you're at 1% of the market, there's no need to tie your own hands behind your back.

 

Unity #1 will have more variants than any Valiant book printed so far... if it works, then Valiant will only be guilty of acting like Marvel and DC in a world dominated by Marvel and DC.

 

Valiant could be a niche publisher with under 10,000 print run comics of only one cover each.

 

I'd really like that idea... for a little while... but if it also meant Valiant couldn't afford to publish for long, I wouldn't vote for their imminent death in the form of bad business decisions.

[Buzzetta]

I really do not pick up the valiant variants. With RARE exception, I just take whatever is in my pull bag.

[Buzzetta]

Okay... now here is something to discuss...

 

What will be (if there is one) the new Valiant universe's "Unity" moment? I am not talking about the release of the comic book. I am referring to the original run where many of the issues prior to the Unity event in the Lost Land o' Mothergod and Bionosaurs were produced in smaller numbers and obscure to most.

 

All of a sudden BOOM and Unity and then there is a lot of attention to the publisher and then the books become in demand...

 

Has that moment happened? Has it yet to happen? Will it happen?

 

[FormerReader]

Okay... now here is something to discuss...

 

What will be (if there is one) the new Valiant universe's "Unity" moment? I am not talking about the release of the comic book. I am referring to the original run where many of the issues prior to the Unity event in the Lost Land o' Mothergod and Bionosaurs were produced in smaller numbers and obscure to most.

 

All of a sudden BOOM and Unity and then there is a lot of attention to the publisher and then the books become in demand...

 

Has that moment happened? Has it yet to happen? Will it happen?

 

I would say based on sales it hasn't happened. I don't think there will be any moment when it occurs like Unity where we can point to as the major turning point. I think if success does come it will be slowly due to recognition of quality stories from word of mouth.

[rjrjr]

I was on the valiant boat but the number of alternate covers and second prints made me abandon ship quickly. I now wait for the trades in the bargin bin, great stories but I'm not going to collect them.

 

 

I was very vocal in the beginning about the variants. A year later, I don't care any more. I've since dropped all the titles as Valiant redux hasn't really panned out to be anything more than yet another superhero universe with slow paced stories. They might as well be part of the MU or DCU since the tone, art, etc. are the same. There is nothing here to set Valiant apart from what is already being done by the big two.

 

This new Valiant has definitely not captured the spirit and originality of the original Valiant. No house style. No titles taking place in alternate eras. No compelling fast paced stories. It just goes to show you there is no going back.

 

Share with us what YOU would do. What would you like to see? Please be specific.

 

Only because you asked:

 

1) I would stop all the variants or if you have to do variants, just 50/50 or 1 of 3/1 of 4 variants. Making the comics hard to find is telling your fans that you are not interested in them collecting your comics. You need to appeal to the collectors/readers and not just the speculators.

 

2) Create new characters and let the creators have ownership in those characters. Marvel and DC don't need to do this because they have large libraries of characters to draw on. Valiant does not. If Valiant wants to have memorable new characters that add to their universe, they have to give the creators an incentive to create memorable new characters. This isn't the 80s or earlier anymore and creators are going to hold back their creative juices for companies like Image where they have ownership in their creation.

 

3) Create done in one issue stories. Give the readers the impression you have stories that are going somewhere. Taking a story that can fit into one issue and drawing it out over 4-6 issues isn't good writing, it is boring. And right now, it would be different than what is being done with other comics in the industry.

 

4) Bring back the future RAI. Start an Ivar comic that jumps around in the Valiant timeline. Create a title ala Ruse (yes, a Crossgen title) that is set in the past. Old Valiant was unique because of the different eras they depicted and I for one missed that with this revival.

 

5) Start a fan club and print in the issues your fan's submissions, spotlight your fans, etc. Old Valiant (an idea they borrowed from 60s/70s Marvel) was very good at making their readers part of the experience. Publishing impossible to find variants and giving them away if your fans do your marketing for you is not the same thing. It makes your fans look like lemmings and pathetic.

 

6) Quit following a formula and allow surprises and variations in your publishing plans. Every 5th issue of the new books have introduced a new (old) character. Yawn. Why not let the stories dictate when this occurs? Again, this line of books is so planned and formula, it feels forced and corporate.

 

Two years ago, before new Valiant started publishing, I was very excited about the possibilities. I am one of those old Valiant readers who has every issue of the original books and even the Acclaim revivals. I frequent the Valiant Fan site. I was the target audience. As the books started rolling out, I became more and more jaded however. I was expected the excitement of the old books, but with modern art. I was hoping Valiant was prepared to really set the comic world on fire, not just produce more of the same. I was hoping beyond hope for classic sensibilities (great stories, compelling characters) mixed with strong art. What I failed to realize was the new publisher spent so much time planning their line, the roll out felt corporate, not organic. The Variants. The drawn out introductions. The predictability of the stories.

 

I'm pretty sure this is how many of the old Star Wars fans felt when Episode I - III were released. Clearly, for me, there is no going back. I'm glad some people are enjoying the comics however. The nice thing about today's comic market, is there is room for many types of comics. My tastes have evolved and I'm more inclined to pick up an Image/Boom/IDW/Dark Horse title these days than a superhero titles.

 

 

 

 

[Buzzetta]

1) I would stop all the variants or if you have to do variants, just 50/50 or 1 of 3/1 of 4 variants. Making the comics hard to find is telling your fans that you are not interested in them collecting your comics. You need to appeal to the collectors/readers and not just the speculators.

Disagree

Let the speculators drive part of the market. Those that are interested in the stories such as myself, and are happy to see a few old characters back in action are more than happy to simply pick up one of each issue no matter the cover. Occasionally I pick up a variant but to be realistic my LCS does not order enough of each title to qualify for the more rare variants. It does not bother me.

 

2) Create new characters and let the creators have ownership in those characters. Marvel and DC don't need to do this because they have large libraries of characters to draw on. Valiant does not. If Valiant wants to have memorable new characters that add to their universe, they have to give the creators an incentive to create memorable new characters. This isn't the 80s or earlier anymore and creators are going to hold back their creative juices for companies like Image where they have ownership in their creation.

Disagree

I like the idea of the company owning their characters and the idea of an owned permanently connected universe. Image does not have that. Image is not a 'universe' it is a publishing brand. Spawn does not exist in the same universe as the Walking Dead. However, if Valiant were to allow creator owned books and act as a publishing house for those characters then fine... however, I don't need to see them play in the same world as EW, Bloodshot, Harbinger and the rest. The reason is because at any point that creator can pick up their ball and go home. In fact I don't read any Image titles. I like seeing the bigger world in a publishing house. I don't see that in Image so I have never been able to get into it.

 

3) Create done in one issue stories. Give the readers the impression you have stories that are going somewhere. Taking a story that can fit into one issue and drawing it out over 4-6 issues isn't good writing, it is boring. And right now, it would be different than what is being done with other comics in the industry.

Agreed

Make a few good one and done stories but part of a bigger whole. Good writing means that you can see a single 'episode' in a comic but are compelled to continue with the series in order to find out more about a few unanswered compelling questions or themes.

 

4) Bring back the future RAI. Start an Ivar comic that jumps around in the Valiant timeline. Create a title ala Ruse (yes, a Crossgen title) that is set in the past. Old Valiant was unique because of the different eras they depicted and I for one missed that with this revival.

Agreed

I think that this will be coming in 2014. Rai and Ivar are a natural pairing for the future. Someone told me that they were looking to license 'one' character from the old Gold Key characters. I doubt this but if it were correct, maybe they do revive Magnus or Solar for the future universe, even though I would prefer Turok. Maybe they create something similar to the world that Magnus lived in without using Magnus and using Rai as a robot smasher.

 

5) Start a fan club and print in the issues your fan's submissions, spotlight your fans, etc. Old Valiant (an idea they borrowed from 60s/70s Marvel) was very good at making their readers part of the experience. Publishing impossible to find variants and giving them away if your fans do your marketing for you is not the same thing. It makes your fans look like lemmings and pathetic.

Agreed

 

6) Quit following a formula and allow surprises and variations in your publishing plans. Every 5th issue of the new books have introduced a new (old) character. Yawn. Why not let the stories dictate when this occurs? Again, this line of books is so planned and formula, it feels forced and corporate.

Agreed, but I think that is something the fans keep clamoring for. Their twitter feed and message boards keep asking the publishing house or mentioning, "When are we going to see this character? When are we going to see THAT character?" I think the fans want this.